View Single Post
      09-30-2009, 08:16 AM   #15
white911
First Lieutenant
white911's Avatar
16
Rep
355
Posts

Drives: 135I - white/coral red - sport
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California, MD

iTrader: (0)

Short answer - Daily Driver, street use, publilc parking = 135I!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post
Ok folks, here's the dilemma... For roughly the same amount of money, I can order a brand spankin' new 2010 BMW 135i with the exact options I want or I can find a "pre-loved" 2004 Porsche 911 C4S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post

I am posting this here since BMW forums members typically do not have that "Porsche ego" as Porsche forum members do. When I posted something similar to a Porsche forum, it was like "sacrilege" to even "think" that anything can be better than a Porsche... I'm like paaalleeeaaasseeee, "get over it" I tell those guys. They couldn't even admit that the lowly 135 was faster. Well, it is in both stats AND seat-of-the-pants feel.

... KINDLY provide your thoughts so that I may be able to decide.
I went through some of the same decision process. I put on over 25 track days a year and participate in another 10 to 20. I have quite a bit of experience driving these cars in all weather conditions from Northern Maine and Michigan to more temperate climes. I know you said you would use other cars in the snow and rain; but, just another data point. The 911 is better in the snow without question.

I chose the 135I as my daily driver and have driven it in several of our events. To me there is no question that in general driving the 135I is a better daily car. If for nothing else then visibility and useful mid range power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post
...Fun factor = 135 wins. The 135 feels more tossable believe it or not. The steering is not as heavy so it feels like you can "chuck" it into a corner more easily. But it doesn't "stay" in the corner nearly as nice as the 911. I can peel out in the 135 and have fun being a grown-up "hooligan" much more so with the 135. You can't really peel out much with AWD. What would be really nice is a wide body 911 with rear wheel drive only....


Agree you can drive the 135 harder on the street then the 911 because you cannot or should not even approach the limits of the 911 on the street. The tiny turbos and outstanding mid-range torque make the 135 a great car on public roads. The 135I feels very nice well below the limit; but, closer to the limit the 135 does not behave that well. My 135I has Yokohama AD08s on it and I have a skinny spare in the trunk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post
What would be really nice is a wide body 911 with rear wheel drive only....
Carrera S


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post
Acceleration = 135 wins, especially if on a "rolling start" or the 50 - 70 mph romp. 135 will destroy 911 with the JB3.

True around town, not so 50 to 130 roll on the throttle as in coming out of Oak Tree at VIR. I collected enough data over three days at VIR in September. Sally and I took our daily drivers as our track car was down. She was able to pull me with her stock 964 coming out of Oak Tree. The 911 will run all day long as will the 135I in stock condition. The 135I with JB3 will limp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post
Brakes = interestingly, the brakes feel better on the 135. I'm not saying it stops better. I'm saying it "feels" better. But it's not really important to me as both cars' brakes are fine...

Brakes are not even close – last event both cars were using Hawk HT10s and ATE Blue. Turn 1 killed the 135 brakes and there was insufficient time to recover for Turn 3. Not enough heat sink in the rotors. To me HT10s when warm feel better on the street then the stock pads because of initial bite and high torque. The rotor on the 135 is too skinny. 25mm on a 3400 pound car. Sally’s Carrera has 28mm rotors and weighs 500 pounds less. 996 TT which weighs about the same as the 135I has 35mm thick rotors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post
Practicality = 135 wins. What I loved about my previous daily driver the E36 M3 was that it was still practical. I can still have 4 people in the car with some luggage. Although the 135 is a little smaller than the E36, it's still MUCH bigger interior-wise than the 911. The 911 is really a 2 people car with their luggage. I can fit a baby seat in the back of the 135. This is not possible with the 911. But as my child(ren) grow a little, they will be able to sit perfectly fine in the back of the 911..


Definitely 135I. I have put adults in the back seat of the 135I. I removed the rear headrest and I have visibility I could only dream of in the Porsche. The little turbos and the low to mid range torque make this a dynamite commuter car. Also, I get almost 28-30mpg on the highway – over 20 commuting (of course that depends on what happens to my right foot). 7.5mpg on the track

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post
Tracktime = dunno. I feel that the 911 will handle beautifully. BUT, I see the 135 as blowing by it - especially since I will most likely get the JB3 + oil cooler + etc. once the warranty runs out. I've heard of the 135's cooking brakes and needing a suspension job since the current setup seriously understeers. The 911 is perfect out of the gate but with less power....and MUCH less power if the 135 had the JB3..


Unfortunately, this is not going to be close without extensive work on the 135I. Put equally experienced drivers in the car and the 911 wins. Put the JB3, oil cooler, brake money into the 911’s suspension and there is no way that you can put enough money into the 135 to make it faster on the track then the 911.

If occasional track use and ease of driving is your goal, then why not consider an E46 M3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post
Cachet = 911 wins. With my line of work, it would be more "business acceptable" for people to see me in a 911 than to see me in the 135. This is because not everyone understands the performance capability of the 135.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post

Warranty/Repairs = 135 is new so there's no contest there. I can typically work on my own cars. But with the 911, the engine is not exactly easily accessible. Even after the warranty expires on the 135, I am confident I'll be able to fix most items when it breaks. I'm not sure how hard/easy it would be to even change spark plugs in the 911..
I chose the 135I. I do not like the looks of the 996. I love the looks of the 997 as well as the 993 and earlier 911s.

The 135I is more fun to drive on the street and in traffic.

Warranty Repairs – Will be less expensive to maintain the 135; but there will be a myriad of little things that go wrong. One of my tail lights failed and was replaced under warranty – three days down time.

Both cars have a wonderful engine and transmission; but, the 996, 986, 987, and 997 have been fighting potential RMS problems with limited success. The base engine is not used in the TT and GT3. Porsche chose instead to use a more reliable bottom end for the GT3 and TT and use the one originally developed for the 964.
__________________
Alan
08 135I (AW/Coral Red - delivered 3/15/08 --
13 Audi S4, 83 SC (trackster), 90 C2 (Sally's Carrera), 04 Avalanche Blingmobile

Appreciate 0