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      04-13-2012, 05:43 PM   #17
Pete_vB
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Drives: '69 GT3, GT4, 1M, 912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clived View Post
If your point is that Evolve's methods are somehow intrinsically more dangerous than all other tuners, I think you're very much lacking in empirical or anecodtal evidence.
I didn't say that at all. My point is that the OP's philosophy (more top end is better) is a double edged sword, and looking at dynos provides only half the equation (the less important half for me- I'd rather leave a few hp on the table than significantly reduce engine life).

Quote:
Originally Posted by M///1rider View Post
I understand your argument but if you researched anything about Evolve they make custom maps to modifications, that doesnt mean i got a custom map to push the car harder.
I think you're missing the point right here. You explain above that your new tune is making more top end power, but you're assuming that doesn't mean you're "pushing the car harder". Assuming both tuners know their jobs, and I assume they do, it absolutely means you're pushing the car harder. The turbo is already past the design flow limit, you're flowing more air, meaning higher turbo RPMs, more heat, etc. This is the point I think you're missing- the new map is stressing the car more. Ask evolve, and if they are halfway decent they will agree, they'll just tell you it's by an acceptable amount for your application. Hopefully they understand your application well...

I've been tuning my cars, turbo and not, for more than 15 years. The tuner I use now has designed and built the motors that took the 24 hours of Daytona overall win. Twice. I've blown head gaskets, stuck an exhaust valve during a top speed open road race at the Silver State Classic (by doing exactly what you're doing re the turbo map), etc- I'd wager I'm pretty up to speed with what you can get away with in regards to tuning and what you can't.

I'm fully aware of what people are doing with tapering the boost, etc, to protect the turbos on these motors. What you seem unaware of is that by pushing the car in the way you are you will pay a price in longevity. This is at least the third thread by my count where you've asked different tuners for more top end power. You don't seem to understand the tradeoff in longevity you're asking for in the process.

If you're aware of and fine with the shorter motor life and limitations in usage that come with it then by all means, carry on. Just for your own sake and others reading this, understand that just because tuner XXX makes you more hp doesn't mean he's better.

As I said, I'd personally suggest you do 460 rwhp the right way, with bigger turbos- I think the motor would be relatively un-stressed that way vs 420 whp on overstressed stock turbos.
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