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      08-21-2011, 08:12 PM   #23
dfv2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel135i View Post
Personally, BMW should have mounted one in the car as standard... hell, my SRT had one standard lol.
There is no good reason to know exact boost outside of troubleshooting with the n54, the DME will control boost depending on a wide variety of conditions. You could hit 12psi and then 14psi back to back runs and make the same power due to timing, cam position, etc.
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      08-21-2011, 08:19 PM   #24
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Does ESS's tune for the 1M have a map over 1bar?
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      08-27-2011, 09:06 PM   #25
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I'll slap back my P3 boost gauge (version 1, which I kept from the 135i) and report back some time soon, curious myself.
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      08-27-2011, 11:01 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1one1M View Post
Does ESS's tune for the 1M have a map over 1bar?
OK, I was told that stock is around 6-8psi and the ESS tune increases boost to between 12-14 with the M button...
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      08-28-2011, 02:15 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfv2 View Post
There is no good reason to know exact boost outside of troubleshooting with the n54, the DME will control boost depending on a wide variety of conditions. You could hit 12psi and then 14psi back to back runs and make the same power due to timing, cam position, etc.
Sure there is... You don't see the benefit of making sure your hitting the right amount of boost your supposed to be hitting at any given time? I know modern electronics adjust boost according to outside factors, but it is NOT as significant as you all seem to think. Any problem that can create a boost leak will alter the boost reading more so than environmental factors any day of the year, in any conditions.

Its as pertinent a gauge in any forced induced car as your gas gauge is. AFR/Boost/EGT/Oil press/Oil temp are all pertinent in a boosted car, even more so if you track and are planning on modding anything to raise the boost levels.
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      08-28-2011, 02:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel135i View Post
Sure there is... You don't see the benefit of making sure your hitting the right amount of boost your supposed to be hitting at any given time? I know modern electronics adjust boost according to outside factors, but it is NOT as significant as you all seem to think. Any problem that can create a boost leak will alter the boost reading more so than environmental factors any day of the year, in any conditions.

Its as pertinent a gauge in any forced induced car as your gas gauge is. AFR/Boost/EGT/Oil press/Oil temp are all pertinent in a boosted car, even more so if you track and are planning on modding anything to raise the boost levels.
Though I agree with most of your post, there is nothing more useless than an AFR gauge in a car. Typically it's a bunch of little lights going from green (rich) to red (lean) and passing through yellow (stoichiometry). AFR varies too much and too quickly to the point that it renders the gauge useless. If you wish to measure this value, you're better off with a data logging system where a graph (with values) is generated and sampling occurs instantaneously so that you can then go back and review the results. Anyone who sits in a car looking at an AFR gauge probably has nothing better to do - this value is mainly used when tuning forced induction on a dyno, or tuning by making pulls.

On the other hand, boost/exhaust gas temp/oil pressure/oil temp are indeed crucial, and such gauges do a great job at displaying real time values.
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      08-28-2011, 04:03 PM   #29
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My oil pressure gauge will arrive in a week, so I will install a boost gauge and an oil pressure gauge soon.
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      08-28-2011, 04:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel135i View Post
that's still an incredibly small amount of boost stock. My 95 3K VR4 was cranking 14 stock. So was my 2005 SRT4.
This is the danger of throwing numbers around out of context. Most Turbo motors in the past ran 8:0 - 8.5:1 compression ratios to prevent detonation. Modern motors with direct injection like the 1M run 10:1 compression ratios. So you see, 12 lbs of boost with such a high compression ratio is actually a TON OF BOOST.

12 lbs of boost on your VR4 or SRT4 running 10.1 compression on 91 Octane gas would not have been pretty.

That is the reason boost in now controlled more carefully than before. The motors are running leaner, higher compression and higher revs.
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      08-28-2011, 04:59 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by nachob View Post
This is the danger of throwing numbers around out of context. Most Turbo motors in the past ran 8:0 - 8.5:1 compression ratios to prevent detonation. Modern motors with direct injection like the 1M run 10:1 compression ratios. So you see, 12 lbs of boost with such a high compression ratio is actually a TON OF BOOST.

12 lbs of boost on your VR4 or SRT4 running 10.1 compression on 91 Octane gas would not have been pretty.

That is the reason boost in now controlled more carefully than before. The motors are running leaner, higher compression and higher revs.
Finally someone has typed something worth reading

Most people talk about boost without taking into consideration what you explained above (compression ratio), and very importantly, size of the turbo(s). Lower boost with a large turbo may easily translate to much more power than higher boost with a smaller turbo - here we enter the subject of cfm's.
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      08-28-2011, 08:10 PM   #32
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Can't use a generic obd gauge to read boost on the n54... The map sensor on the manifold of the n54 is only good for 3.3psi or so... the 17 you see is not subtracting ambient pressure of 14.5(or so).... The T-map sensor before the throttle measure up to 22psi, the ECU reads both these and does a blend of the data.

On the n54 it's best to use a vacuum driven sensor (which is what we use for the p3cars.com gauge for the n54 and 1M)... otherwise you won't see vacuum and the throttle plate will create spikes to the sensor that are never seen in the manifold... makes for crappy peak recall!

The n55 on the other hand has a 22psi capable sensor on the manifold so obd data will show actual full boost.

We've sold a few gauges to 1M users... I am assuming they have been running them and should be able to report back actual boost,egt,coolant temp,AIT,0-60 times, etc... all the stuff the P3 gauge reads.

-Rick


Quote:
Originally Posted by KIYO View Post
I have done only 100km with my 1M so I have not yet done a full throttle but I have seen 105kPa (15.22PSI) with the ScanGaugeII connected to my 1M. That is about 1bar.

The picture is when idle.
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      08-28-2011, 08:56 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
Can't use a generic obd gauge to read boost on the n54... The map sensor on the manifold of the n54 is only good for 3.3psi or so... the 17 you see is not subtracting ambient pressure of 14.5(or so).... The T-map sensor before the throttle measure up to 22psi, the ECU reads both these and does a blend of the data.

On the n54 it's best to use a vacuum driven sensor (which is what we use for the p3cars.com gauge for the n54 and 1M)... otherwise you won't see vacuum and the throttle plate will create spikes to the sensor that are never seen in the manifold... makes for crappy peak recall!

The n55 on the other hand has a 22psi capable sensor on the manifold so obd data will show actual full boost.

We've sold a few gauges to 1M users... I am assuming they have been running them and should be able to report back actual boost,egt,coolant temp,AIT,0-60 times, etc... all the stuff the P3 gauge reads.

-Rick
Rick: just wanted to confirm, I can reuse the P3 off my 135i on the 1//M, right? I have the very first version. BTW, any chance for a 'trade-in' program to get the latest one? Thx!
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      08-29-2011, 04:18 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Rick: just wanted to confirm, I can reuse the P3 off my 135i on the 1//M, right? I have the very first version. BTW, any chance for a 'trade-in' program to get the latest one? Thx!
Yep, you can re-use a v1 on the 1M, will work just fine...

We have a v2 trade-up credit available where we refund some money back to you if you send us your old gauge. Contact us at contact@p3cars.com for details.
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      09-11-2011, 07:00 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
Yep, you can re-use a v1 on the 1M, will work just fine...

We have a v2 trade-up credit available where we refund some money back to you if you send us your old gauge. Contact us at contact@p3cars.com for details.
E-mail sent, thx!
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      03-08-2012, 08:31 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
Can't use a generic obd gauge to read boost on the n54... The map sensor on the manifold of the n54 is only good for 3.3psi or so... the 17 you see is not subtracting ambient pressure of 14.5(or so).... The T-map sensor before the throttle measure up to 22psi, the ECU reads both these and does a blend of the data.

On the n54 it's best to use a vacuum driven sensor (which is what we use for the p3cars.com gauge for the n54 and 1M)... otherwise you won't see vacuum and the throttle plate will create spikes to the sensor that are never seen in the manifold... makes for crappy peak recall!

The n55 on the other hand has a 22psi capable sensor on the manifold so obd data will show actual full boost.

We've sold a few gauges to 1M users... I am assuming they have been running them and should be able to report back actual boost,egt,coolant temp,AIT,0-60 times, etc... all the stuff the P3 gauge reads.

-Rick

I'm pretty sure not all n55 engines have a 22 psi sensor, as mine won't give a reading over 3.0x psi.
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      03-08-2012, 11:02 PM   #37
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Hello,
I have been reading alot and have not seen any discussion regarding boost pressure? What is the stock psi?
Looking at the dyno charts of tuned 1m's there is no reference to boost psi at specific rpm's? I assume a "tune" also remaps the turbo psi at specific rpm's? - Is the boost psi electronically controlled in the N54?
Thanks - just trying to get educated before I take delivery of my 1m in a couple of months!
Here's some info to get you going.

Stock boost is .8 bar, which is 14.7 x .8 = 11.6psi normal boost.
Overboost is rated at 1 bar or 14.7 psi.

Stock pressure on the non M N54 is 8.7psi.
The JB+ at "max" setting gives the N54 up to +4.75psi.
At the "max" setting boost should be about 13.45psi.

On an 09 135i, we had a JB+ set to near "max".
Using a 'hijack' program, we hijacked the fuel gauge to be a turbo boost gauge. The setting was near max, not all the way, and we were seeing a bit over 12psi at full boost. This is not overboost, it was "normal" with that setting.

Burger tuning claims that with the JB+ set to "max", real RWHP gains
BT claims that at a +2.75 setting, RWHP is +40hp and +50lb ft.
My guess is that non wheel power is about 340hp and 350lb ft, which is close to the 1M's stock power output.
Max setting is capable of up to +60hp at the wheels.

I think that's a bit optimistic but I can tell you that at near max setting the power difference is substantial, not just noticeable, but substantial.
Driveability was very OEM like, which was very surprising for such a simple piggyback device.

Realistically, I think the setting we used gave us about about +3.75, which accounts for the boost reading showing something like 12.5psi.
I can't be accurate on that because when you hijack the gas gauge you only have 4 hash marks by which to judge, so some estimation has to happen.

N54 compression ratio is 10.2:1, which is quite high for a turbo enigne, but that's what we can have thanks to direct injection and it's cooling effect on the combustion chamber.
Nice.

The 1M's N54 compression ratio is also 10.2:1 same as the non M engine.
Increased power for the 1M is coming from tuning, not from added compression, just for data point.

The turbo's used in both versions of N54 are Mitsubishi TD03, very small little buggers. They can be modded with a different compressor wheel that will allow a greater air flow and the turbines can be clipped helping reduce back pressure and giving a bit better flow at higher rpm.

Back to the TD03 turbo's, the 1M N54 also uses the same manifold and turbo's as the non M N54.
Part numbers:

N54 135i: 11657593015 & 11657593017
N54 1M: 11657593015 & 11657593017

These little turbo's spool quickly and they are ideal for a power curve that has big torque at low rpm. But, they run out of flow capacity as engine speed and turbine speed increase. That's why our engines just don't pull very hard at higher rpm. Clipping would help that a bit.
A larger turbo would help that quite a bit, but lag would markedly increase.

Some of the 1M engine internals were beefed up to have good long life while under a 50K mile warranty. That's also a bonus for 1M drivers who want a tune as the 1M engine has the advantage of beefier internals, and bodes well for using larger turbo's.

Last edited by RPM90; 03-09-2012 at 09:03 PM.
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      05-06-2012, 01:05 PM   #38
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Personally, BMW should have mounted one in the car as standard... hell, my SRT had one standard lol.
Or an old skool one: check the picture at 01:54 in the ///M video below.

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      05-06-2012, 02:55 PM   #39
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i can second RPM90's findings in doing my own research

looks like stock boost is 11.6 PSI and overboost puts the car at 14.5 PSI
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      05-06-2012, 08:51 PM   #40
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Incorrect. Boost is a measure of air compression, inside the engine's cylinders by the pistons. Backpressure has nothing to do with it, in fact, in turbo-charged applications we like to reduce backpressure in exchange of exhaust flow, in order to make the system more efficient and less restrictive.
Boost does not refer to the pressure in the cylinders, or to compression. It measures the pressure in the manifold, which represents the backpressure building up as intake flow out of the turbocharger exceeds flow into the cylinders. It is not the same kind of backpressure that is seen on the exhaust side, which can be detrimental.

All other variables held equal, a port and polish or any other work that improved flow through the intake valves into the cylinders would decrease boost pressure and increase horsepower.
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      05-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #41
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What would happen if you put a cheap JB+ on a 1M, would it add the 2-3.75psi over the 1Ms stock boost numbers?
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      05-07-2012, 06:01 PM   #42
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The most I have seen on my P3 gauge is 13.8 psi. That is via a boost line tap.
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      05-07-2012, 09:14 PM   #43
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Stock-wise, my P3 gauge would register high 14s regularly.
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