1M midpipes v N55 midpipes - Page 3 - BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)

Denso · 03-03-2012, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie_in_London

Thanks mate.....

Sounds well worth it for the small outlay it costs.

Aussie,

What is the cost in UK for this, i am interested in doing this if it makes a difference

Zuzu · 03-03-2012, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oystero

Thanks for posting. Nice gain

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayao

That's 22 hp for the metrically-challenged ... nice. Thanks for posting this!

You welcome..

clived · 03-03-2012, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuzu

Ok.. have gained 12Kw ATW with the N55 mids..

Dyno chart shows runs with "M" button OFF at 242.5Kw, then with "M" button activated on 258.1Kw ATW

Stock runs with OEM 1M mid pipe with "M" button activated was 246Kw ATW.

"M" button activated makes a 16Kw difference on Dyno charts..

Surely, from the figures you've posted, it's a 12.1Kw difference? (246 stock with M activated vs 258.1 with the mid pipes on and M button activated 0 258.1 - 246 = ???

The results worry me in any case - power should be the same with th M button on or off if you're WOT, so I wonder if there is an error in the procedure?

Rakony · 03-03-2012, 04:15 AM

Dear Zuzu,

Thanks for sharing with us the Dyno Chart, Video Clips and your experience.

I have a very silly Q but made me wondering, If both mid pipes of the 1M and the N55 are identical except for the 2nd Cat, wasn’t it just easier to cut off the cat from the original mid pipe of the 1m and just do some good welding job with a piece of straight pipe ?

Now, since you gained around 22 HP, what is next on your mind ? will u go for ECU Flashing ? downpipes ? Bigger FMIC ?

Best regards,

Rakony

clived · 03-03-2012, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakony

Dear Zuzu,

Thanks for sharing with us the Dyno Chart, Video Clips and your experience.

I have a very silly Q but made me wondering, If both mid pipes of the 1M and the N55 are identical except for the 2nd Cat, wasn’t it just easier to cut off the cat from the original mid pipe of the 1m and just do some good welding job with a piece of straight pipe ?

Easier, no. Putting the N55 midpipes on is a simple unbolt old, bolt-on new job. Adding cutting and welding in the middle can't reallyy be easier can it, unless you were crazily cosidering somehow to to the cutting and welding in-place? ;-)

Imran@Evolve · 03-03-2012, 06:17 AM

That gain for the midpipe does not match up with our back to back testing although our test car already had Evolve Catless DP and Rear Exhaust. Will post up dyno in separate thread.

Aussie_in_London · 03-03-2012, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denso

Aussie,

What is the cost in UK for this, i am interested in doing this if it makes a difference

£289.43 from Cotswold Motor Group

gaskets incase you require them £36.66 inc for all three......

'All prices quoted are for Genuine BMW Parts and include a discount for enquiring on line, VAT and there would be no charge for postage to a mainland UK address.'

Aussie_in_London · 03-03-2012, 09:13 AM

Did anyone replace the 3 gaskets when fitting the midpipes?

I think there would really be no need for myself as I only have 1900miles on the clock and its 3 months old......

ozinaldo · 03-03-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advevo

I changed one of my 1M today with the N55 mid pipe.

It s a well worth investment.

Throttle response is better. When you are off and on the throttle the pickup is little faster. Also you can feel it revs more free in higher rpm. If it has more hp or NM i can t feel.

Advevo,

Was the 1M you changed to N55 mid pipe, a stock car or with some engine/exhaust tune already that could affect the positive result you got?

Any additional comments on drone?

Thanks in advance.

CarJunkie · 03-03-2012, 10:51 AM

Are the midpipes the only mod, any tune?

Denso · 03-03-2012, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie_in_London

£289.43 from Cotswold Motor Group

gaskets incase you require them £36.66 inc for all three......

'All prices quoted are for Genuine BMW Parts and include a discount for enquiring on line, VAT and there would be no charge for postage to a mainland UK address.'

Thanks, at that price its a done deal. You got the part numbers by any chance ?

MB38 · 03-03-2012, 01:14 PM

Awesome results for an OEM part! I'm in...

The real curiosity to me are the M button results. So much for a simple throttle remapping? Or perhaps it somehow activates overboost at a lower RPM resulting in a different curve...

Pete_vB · 03-03-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuzu

Ok.. have gained 12Kw ATW with the N55 mids..

Dyno chart shows runs with "M" button OFF at 242.5Kw, then with "M" button activated on 258.1Kw ATW

Stock runs with OEM 1M mid pipe with "M" button activated was 246Kw ATW.

"M" button activated makes a 16Kw difference on Dyno charts..

So I'm all kinds of confused by this M button thing.

First, your car was making 330 hp at the wheels stock, which would be high on a DynoJet but seems way high on a Dyno Dynamics? I think they read over 10% lower than DynoJets, meaning you'd be making ~370 at wheels with a DynoJet, stock? Seems high, so my first question is, are these corrected (for temperature, etc) numbers?

Then picked up 16 hp with the mid-pipes. Seems a bit more than I would have expected, but maybe in the range?

Finally, and this is where I get really confused, you show 21 hp at the wheels with the M button? As others have said, I've been told that it doesn't increase power. My first thought was that the car was in "overboost" mode with the M button on and not in the other run, which would make some sense as it clearly shows more boost, but even then up at the top where the boost is close to the same the M button is making more power.

Do you have pre-modification dynos with and without the M button that you could post? Is is possible that the car was heat-soaked for one run and not the other? Can you confirm the car is stock with no other mods (flash tune?).

Very strange. If the car really is making more power in M mode a bunch of people here are going to want to know about it...

Aussie_in_London · 03-03-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denso

Thanks, at that price its a done deal. You got the part numbers by any chance ?

Here you go

18307599743

Zuzu · 03-03-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clived

Surely, from the figures you've posted, it's a 12.1Kw difference? (246 stock with M activated vs 258.1 with the mid pipes on and M button activated 0 258.1 - 246 = ???

The results worry me in any case - power should be the same with th M button on or off if you're WOT, so I wonder if there is an error in the procedure?

No error in the procedure..
Dyno your car by a pro race shop with a highly qualified operator and see what results you achieve..

Had 5 runs.. 1 with "M" off.. then 4 with it on..last 2 runs where consistent..

First dyno was two weeks previous and the temps on that day where 26 Deg C against yesterday 20 C.

6 cars went on the dyno yesterday.. Some made power and some didnt..All within the expected range.
Dyno has been calibrated frequently as part of its ongoing maintenance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imran@Evolve

That gain for the midpipe does not match up with our back to back testing although our test car already had Evolve Catless DP and Rear Exhaust. Will post up dyno in separate thread.

Waiting..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie_in_London

Did anyone replace the 3 gaskets when fitting the midpipes?

I think there would really be no need for myself as I only have 1900miles on the clock and its 3 months old......

No need to replace gaskets..

Zuzu · 03-03-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Are the midpipes the only mod, any tune?

No tune, only mids at the moment..

I have had my 1M also at a different dyno shop, with similar results when stock..

My old 135i was tuned with mids and had 255.9Kws..
The 1M feels more powerful to me than the 135i and the dyno results prove it.

Both dyno operators who have both been building and racing high performance BMW's for the past 25 years, where amazed by the power my 1M produces..

Quote:

Originally Posted by MB38

Awesome results for an OEM part! I'm in...

The real curiosity to me are the M button results. So much for a simple throttle remapping? Or perhaps it somehow activates overboost at a lower RPM resulting in a different curve...

My chart shows clearly the difference in runs with "M" Off and "M" on.. Just got stronger and stronger with each run, like it was remapping the more we tested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

So I'm all kinds of confused by this M button thing.

First, your car was making 330 hp at the wheels stock, which would be high on a DynoJet but seems way high on a Dyno Dynamics? I think they read over 10% lower than DynoJets, meaning you'd be making ~370 at wheels with a DynoJet, stock? Seems high, so my first question is, are these corrected (for temperature, etc) numbers?

Then picked up 16 hp with the mid-pipes. Seems a bit more than I would have expected, but maybe in the range?

Finally, and this is where I get really confused, you show 21 hp at the wheels with the M button? As others have said, I've been told that it doesn't increase power. My first thought was that the car was in "overboost" mode with the M button on and not in the other run, which would make some sense as it clearly shows more boost, but even then up at the top where the boost is close to the same the M button is making more power.

Do you have pre-modification dynos with and without the M button that you could post? Is is possible that the car was heat-soaked for one run and not the other? Can you confirm the car is stock with no other mods (flash tune?).

Very strange. If the car really is making more power in M mode a bunch of people here are going to want to know about it...

The runs with the "M" button off where performed initially followed by the runs with it activated..

No offence to anyone, but the figures are proof and I have had my car at two independent dyno shops with similar figures..

If you doubt, just pay the money and do your own your testing..

clived · 03-03-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuzu

No error in the procedure..

But there is an error in your numbers, right? I see you ignored that bit of my post ;-)

Zuzu · 03-03-2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clived

But there is an error in your numbers, right? I see you ignored that bit of my post ;-)

Never ignore you mate.. wasn't that concerned to be honest with the .1 kws error in my calculations at this stage, with everybody doubting my posted dyno sheet..

Pete_vB · 03-03-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuzu

The runs with the "M" button off where performed initially followed by the runs with it activated..

No offence to anyone, but the figures are proof and I have had my car at two independent dyno shops with similar figures..

If you doubt, just pay the money and do your own your testing..

Well I'd say we're just asking for clarification at this point. Doubting may come later. I'm certain we'll get some more tests, and some of the guys with boost gauges will mention if they see a difference in boost. I'm also pretty sure tuners know how the software changes with the M button...

So, was the car fully warmed up, oil to temp, etc prior to the runs without the M button?

And were the dynos corrected for the conditions, or was this a raw, uncorrected output?

Why don't you start a thread on the main forum about the M button adding more power? Or I can- I'm sure most of us want to know.

clived · 03-03-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuzu

Never ignore you mate.. wasn't that concerned to be honest with the .1 kws error in my calculations at this stage, with everybody doubting my posted dyno sheet..

Actually it's 4Kw, which is about 5 bhp - which is nearly 25% of your claimed figures, so not insignificant.

Putting aside concerns about M mode being on and M off in your biggest claimed gains, are you saying above that your before and after mid-pipe mod runs were not done straight back to back? The testing we did at Evolve was literally do some runs, change the mid-pipe, do some runs.

I expect the gains to get a little bigger after some time on the road and some ECU adaptation - which I'm sure is what you're desribing with the runs getting better and better

Zuzu · 03-03-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Well I'd say we're just asking for clarification at this point. Doubting may come later. I'm certain we'll get some more tests, and some of the guys with boost gauges will mention if they see a difference in boost. I'm also pretty sure tuners know how the software changes with the M button...

So, was the car fully warmed up, oil to temp, etc prior to the runs without the M button? YES.. I am not a novice to tuning cars to be asked this ridiculous question..I am 51 yrs old and understand the basic parrameters when dynoing a car, and so does the operator..

And were the dynos corrected for the conditions, or was this a raw, uncorrected output? AGAIN...yes

Why don't you start a thread on the main forum about the M button adding more power? Or I can- I'm sure most of us want to know...Good Idea

My car has performed 2300kms and has never used a drop of oil during or after the break in period..

I never followed the recommended break in procedure ( keeping the car under 5K rpm ) and drove it hard from the moment I drove it out of the showroom..

From day 1, I couldn't believe the power my 1M produced comparing to my tuned 135i.. Might just have a freak engine or a over tweaked tune from BMW.. who knows..

That is the power it is producing..
Two independant dyno's cant be wrong.

Zuzu · 03-03-2012, 05:01 PM

Actually it's 4Kw, which is about 5 bhp - which is nearly 25% of your claimed figures, so not insignificant.

Where did you get the 4Kw error in calcs from ?

Putting aside concerns about M mode being on and M off in your biggest claimed gains, are you saying above that your before and after mid-pipe mod runs were not done straight back to back? The testing we did at Evolve was literally do some runs, change the mid-pipe, do some runs.

My answer to that is in post 59

I expect the gains to get a little bigger after some time on the road and some ECU adaptation - which I'm sure is what you're desribing with the runs getting better and better

Correct

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03-03-2012, 04:15 AM	#48
Rakony New Member Drives: BMW 1M 2012 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Saudi Arabia Posts: 6 iTrader: (0)	Dear Zuzu, Thanks for sharing with us the Dyno Chart, Video Clips and your experience. I have a very silly Q but made me wondering, If both mid pipes of the 1M and the N55 are identical except for the 2nd Cat, wasn’t it just easier to cut off the cat from the original mid pipe of the 1m and just do some good welding job with a piece of straight pipe ? Now, since you gained around 22 HP, what is next on your mind ? will u go for ECU Flashing ? downpipes ? Bigger FMIC ? Best regards, Rakony

03-03-2012, 06:17 AM	#50
Imran@Evolve Drives: E60 M5, E92 M3, R56 MCS Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Bedfordshire UK Posts: 1,562 iTrader: (0)	That gain for the midpipe does not match up with our back to back testing although our test car already had Evolve Catless DP and Rear Exhaust. Will post up dyno in separate thread.

03-03-2012, 09:13 AM	#52
Aussie_in_London Major Drives: 1M & track built Astra OPC Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: London Posts: 1,481 iTrader: (0)	Did anyone replace the 3 gaskets when fitting the midpipes? I think there would really be no need for myself as I only have 1900miles on the clock and its 3 months old......

03-03-2012, 10:51 AM	#54
CarJunkie Lieutenant Drives: Valencia Orange 1-Series M Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tri-Cities, Washington Posts: 426 iTrader: (0)	Are the midpipes the only mod, any tune?

03-03-2012, 01:14 PM	#56
MB38 [insert witty title here] Drives: '97 Supra TT, '11 1M Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 87 iTrader: (0)	Awesome results for an OEM part! I'm in... The real curiosity to me are the M button results. So much for a simple throttle remapping? Or perhaps it somehow activates overboost at a lower RPM resulting in a different curve...

03-03-2012, 05:01 PM	#66
Zuzu Major General Drives: VO 1M Beast Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SyDnEy Oz Posts: 6,972 iTrader: (0)	Actually it's 4Kw, which is about 5 bhp - which is nearly 25% of your claimed figures, so not insignificant. Where did you get the 4Kw error in calcs from ? Putting aside concerns about M mode being on and M off in your biggest claimed gains, are you saying above that your before and after mid-pipe mod runs were not done straight back to back? The testing we did at Evolve was literally do some runs, change the mid-pipe, do some runs. My answer to that is in post 59 I expect the gains to get a little bigger after some time on the road and some ECU adaptation - which I'm sure is what you're desribing with the runs getting better and better Correct