BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-03-2012, 05:45 PM   #67
Papethova
Brigadier General
 
Papethova's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 135/ '11 1M
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: at Death Valley 127

Posts: 3,037
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuzu View Post
Actually it's 4Kw, which is about 5 bhp - which is nearly 25% of your claimed figures, so not insignificant.

Where did you get the 4Kw error in calcs from ?
OEM mid pip = 246

N55 pipe = 258.1

the difference is 12.1

I dont think you can use the 242 figure since that was with M off, right?
Papethova is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2012, 05:50 PM   #68
clived
Captain
 
clived's Avatar
 
Drives: Evolved 1M
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK

Posts: 812
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papethova View Post
OEM mid pip = 246

N55 pipe = 258.1

the difference is 12.1

I dont think you can use the 242 figure since that was with M off, right?
Correct, thank you Papethova
__________________
2011+: VO 1M Coupe, many toys, Evolve Stage 3. 2008-2011: 135i M Sport Le Mans Blue / Lemon / HGSL. Comfort Access, Auto−Dim, Elec Seats + Memory, Lumbar & Heating, PDC F+R, Xenons + Adaptive, Cruise, Nav Pro + Assist & Online, Voice Control, Bluetooth, DAB,6 Disc, Prof Hi−Fi (L7), USB/audio interface, BMW Performance Carbon Fibre interior, Evolve OBD remap - 390bhp. Also in the family: Land Rover Defender 50th Anniversary 4.0 V8, 11 Mercedes E Class Cabriolet Sport.
clived is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2012, 06:04 PM   #69
NC
Private
 
Drives: BSM 1M
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NC

Posts: 90
iTrader: (0)

All the scrutiny of Zuzu's results aside, even if it produced half the HP gain in terms of bang-for-the-buck you can't go wrong.

Zuzu - thanks for posting your data - much appreciated. My mid-pipe is on order.
NC is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #70
Pete_vB
Captain
 
Pete_vB's Avatar
 
Drives: '69 GT3, 1M, 912, R32
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, Shenzhen, Oman

Posts: 810
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuzu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
So, was the car fully warmed up, oil to temp, etc prior to the runs without the M button?
YES.. I am not a novice to tuning cars to be asked this ridiculous question..I am 51 yrs old and understand the basic parrameters when dynoing a car, and so does the operator..
Hey, gotta ask.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuzu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
Why don't you start a thread on the main forum about the M button adding more power? Or I can- I'm sure most of us want to know...
Good Idea
New thread posted here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=656978
__________________
1M, 1969 Porsche 911 w/ 997 GT3 Cup Motor (435hp & 2,100 lbs)
Pete_vB is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2012, 10:26 PM   #71
///M1
Brigadier General
 
///M1's Avatar
 
Drives: Many
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 212/305

Posts: 3,090
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
Well I'd say we're just asking for clarification at this point. Doubting may come later. I'm certain we'll get some more tests, and some of the guys with boost gauges will mention if they see a difference in boost. I'm also pretty sure tuners know how the software changes with the M button...
My observations:

1. I have dynoed the car with M button on, and with it off (in consecutive runs). No change in observed peak HP numbers.
2. I have a boost gauge (get's physical readings through DV lines as opposed to the CANbus version). No observed difference in peak boost between M and non-M mode (15psi peak on stock tune regardless if M button is engaged).
3. I have also logged the car in multiple parameters, peak included, through the AccessPort. Again no difference in peak boost was noticed whether M button was activated or not (via ECU readings this time).
4. Tuners like COBB have maps which disable the M button all-together (e.g. their 91 and 93 Linear Throttle maps where there is no difference if you depress the M button or not). This results in no change in recorded peak power as compared to there Non-Linear Throttle maps (where the M button is allowed to work). All it changes is sensitivity on throttle response, not peak power (nor boost).
5. I dynoed my MadDad mid pipe + Akra Slip-On and got a 10whp delta gain. Compared to the N55 mids, the MadDad is no less restrictive, in fact I'd venture to guess to say it is even freer flowing. Unless one can argue the Akra Slip-On (valves fully open) exhaust is more restrictive than stock (close to an impossibility), getting the alleged gains from an N55 mid pipe alone certainly look very optimistic. FWIW, I had the MadDad midpipe on my 135i and it recorded 8whp gains.

At the end of the day, I personally don't think the M button is any different than what I had on my E39 M5 (basically a factory-installed Sprintbooster that changes throttle response). What has documented here is definitely in contradiction, so I too would like to know what occurring.
__________________
2011 BMW E82 1///M: AW, ZPP+ZCV, HK, Apps; Akra CF+Valve control, MadDad mids, K&N, Forge FMIC, P3gauge, EuroTails, Tint, CF Mirrors+Spoiler+Roof+RevoZ diffuser, 10mm H&R, IND grills+gills, xCDV, LUX AE
2008 Audi B7 RS 4: Sprint Blue, Audi Exclusive Euro Interior, Premium+Titanium Package, EPL Tune, Stasis Ohlins MS coilovers, Milltek valved exhaust+DownPipes, Alcon BBK, Tint, ADR V1, Lidatek, Lamin-X, Strasse Forged SM7 3-piece concave wheels, 275/30/19 PSSs, Euro flat-bottom steering wheel, JHM SSK
///M1 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-03-2012, 11:39 PM   #72
Advevo
Captain
 
Drives: White 1M
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country where the taxes are too high!!

Posts: 910
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Advevo,

Was the 1M you changed to N55 mid pipe, a stock car or with some engine/exhaust tune already that could affect the positive result you got?

Any additional comments on drone?

Thanks in advance.
stock engine and ecu. Only changed midpipe to n55. Overal sound is little louder. Drone is almost not there maybe a little bit.
Advevo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2012, 12:00 AM   #73
bdaddylo
Major
 
bdaddylo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 1,105
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Sorry for getting off topic. The easiest way to determine if your exhaust is droning, simply drive with your rear seats down. I stumbled onto this when I was transporting my track wheels last weekend.
__________________
_______________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP/AW/Ohlins R&T
bdaddylo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2012, 07:43 AM   #74
LotusBoy
Private First Class
 
Drives: BSM 1M, N55, KW's DDC
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brussels

Posts: 119
iTrader: (0)

Hi guys, and special thanks to Mr Zuzu for his time, money spent and most importantly for his patience. While a 16hp is quite an impressive gain for such a relatively small mod, it confirms that there's definitely a power gain, together with a bit more sound. Now why it is a bit more than expected could be down to:
1: more milage
2: type and temperature of fuel
3: running-in oil Vs normal oil
As for the M button, most tuners seem to agree it has a negilgible effect on the curves, so what could explain the difference here could be the following. Zuzu explained us that his car made a bit more power after each run, which is unusual. But we know also that the ECU is progressively adapting to fuel quality. So if the last fill up was better than the previous, it would explain why the 1st run (M off) and then subsequent runs (M on) showed increasing numbers. In this case the increase would reflect ECU adaptation, and not M button position. German/swiss tuners are known to measure their cars with 100 to 102 octane gas, so it certainly makes a difference. There was also an article in EVO on the subject, where they used a Golf 5 GTI to rate the different fuels available in the UK, with significant differences. But anyway, back to this post: the mid-pipe is in my view the single most interesting modification for the 1M.
Thanks again, Zuzu !
LotusBoy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2012, 09:05 AM   #75
ozinaldo
Brigadier General
 
ozinaldo's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Posts: 3,052
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBoy View Post
Hi guys, and special thanks to Mr Zuzu for his time, money spent and most importantly for his patience. While a 16hp is quite an impressive gain for such a relatively small mod, it confirms that there's definitely a power gain, together with a bit more sound. Now why it is a bit more than expected could be down to:
1: more milage
2: type and temperature of fuel
3: running-in oil Vs normal oil
As for the M button, most tuners seem to agree it has a negilgible effect on the curves, so what could explain the difference here could be the following. Zuzu explained us that his car made a bit more power after each run, which is unusual. But we know also that the ECU is progressively adapting to fuel quality. So if the last fill up was better than the previous, it would explain why the 1st run (M off) and then subsequent runs (M on) showed increasing numbers. In this case the increase would reflect ECU adaptation, and not M button position. German/swiss tuners are known to measure their cars with 100 to 102 octane gas, so it certainly makes a difference. There was also an article in EVO on the subject, where they used a Golf 5 GTI to rate the different fuels available in the UK, with significant differences. But anyway, back to this post: the mid-pipe is in my view the single most interesting modification for the 1M.
Thanks again, Zuzu !
Agreed. Interesting input, I also consider the mid-pipe change the way I did consider the change of tires to PSS that I am already experiencing with great satisfaction, these are the cost effective mods for the 1M which do not alter the driving characteristics of the car to something else, void warranty or put a hole in your wallet.

From what others also commented, like Advevo's input, the gains are not limited to a slight (or not) increase in power/torque, it enhances the sound, it cures the drone (partially or more), it gives better throttle response, it makes the engine more free reving at the top of the band where it needs it, is OEM part which fits just like a glove and costs more or less the same of a rear spoiler. Well, I am sold.

Zuzu, thanks for all the time and patience.
ozinaldo is offline   Portugal
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2012, 09:07 AM   #76
ozinaldo
Brigadier General
 
ozinaldo's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Posts: 3,052
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
stock engine and ecu. Only changed midpipe to n55. Overal sound is little louder. Drone is almost not there maybe a little bit.
Thanks, I appreciate. Clearly worth to change to N55 mid pipes.
ozinaldo is offline   Portugal
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2012, 09:19 PM   #77
Ian///M
Major General
 
Ian///M's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: AU

Posts: 6,256
iTrader: (0)

MadDads mids as an alternative to N55 mids



Doesn't do the true sound justice... better when driving than sitting revving
Ian///M is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 02:06 AM   #78
Zuzu
Major General
 
Zuzu's Avatar
 
Drives: VO 1M Beast
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SyDnEy Oz

Posts: 7,557
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC View Post
All the scrutiny of Zuzu's results aside, even if it produced half the HP gain in terms of bang-for-the-buck you can't go wrong.

Zuzu - thanks for posting your data - much appreciated. My mid-pipe is on order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post

Zuzu, thanks for all the time and patience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBoy View Post
Thanks again, Zuzu !
You welcome guys...
Zuzu is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 03:58 AM   #79
Aussie_in_London
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Aussie_in_London's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M & track built Astra OPC
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: London

Posts: 1,660
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for all the input guys, sounds like its a well worth oem mod for the 1M at a small outlay in cost.....
Aussie_in_London is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 04:54 AM   #80
jan9
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: NA
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London

Posts: 241
iTrader: (0)

Because it is an oem part, do you think there will be no issues with warranty? Also will it pass emission tests in the UK when it comes to MOT time?
jan9 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 05:29 AM   #81
clived
Captain
 
clived's Avatar
 
Drives: Evolved 1M
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK

Posts: 812
iTrader: (0)

The MOT now has vehicle specific emmisions tests, so my guess is no, it won't pass, but it isn't possible to say yet as the 1M emmisions targets for MOT have not been published by the DOT yet. However, this is the easiest part to swap back for MOT if need be, so I wouldn't let it stop you.

Re warranty, well, a clued up tech would know it isn't the right part, so it being OEM wouldn't ensure no issues, but I wouldn't anticipate any warranty issues from changing an exhaust component in any case...
__________________
2011+: VO 1M Coupe, many toys, Evolve Stage 3. 2008-2011: 135i M Sport Le Mans Blue / Lemon / HGSL. Comfort Access, Auto−Dim, Elec Seats + Memory, Lumbar & Heating, PDC F+R, Xenons + Adaptive, Cruise, Nav Pro + Assist & Online, Voice Control, Bluetooth, DAB,6 Disc, Prof Hi−Fi (L7), USB/audio interface, BMW Performance Carbon Fibre interior, Evolve OBD remap - 390bhp. Also in the family: Land Rover Defender 50th Anniversary 4.0 V8, 11 Mercedes E Class Cabriolet Sport.
clived is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 05:31 AM   #82
Ian///M
Major General
 
Ian///M's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: AU

Posts: 6,256
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clived View Post
The MOT now has vehicle specific emmisions tests, so my guess is no, it won't pass, but it isn't possible to say yet as the 1M emmisions targets for MOT have not been published by the DOT yet. However, this is the easiest part to swap back for MOT if need be, so I wouldn't let it stop you.

Re warranty, well, a clued up tech would know it isn't the right part, so it being OEM wouldn't ensure no issues, but I wouldn't anticipate any warranty issues from changing an exhaust component in any case...
It will still pass emissions with the secondary cats removed. It won't if the primary cats on the DP's are removed.
Ian///M is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 06:22 AM   #83
clived
Captain
 
clived's Avatar
 
Drives: Evolved 1M
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK

Posts: 812
iTrader: (0)

Ian even the vehicle specific emmissions tests? Do you know what the target figures will be for the 1M?
__________________
2011+: VO 1M Coupe, many toys, Evolve Stage 3. 2008-2011: 135i M Sport Le Mans Blue / Lemon / HGSL. Comfort Access, Auto−Dim, Elec Seats + Memory, Lumbar & Heating, PDC F+R, Xenons + Adaptive, Cruise, Nav Pro + Assist & Online, Voice Control, Bluetooth, DAB,6 Disc, Prof Hi−Fi (L7), USB/audio interface, BMW Performance Carbon Fibre interior, Evolve OBD remap - 390bhp. Also in the family: Land Rover Defender 50th Anniversary 4.0 V8, 11 Mercedes E Class Cabriolet Sport.
clived is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 07:15 AM   #84
Aussie_in_London
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Aussie_in_London's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M & track built Astra OPC
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: London

Posts: 1,660
iTrader: (0)

Just ordered mine, will fit sometime next week........
Aussie_in_London is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 08:25 AM   #85
ozinaldo
Brigadier General
 
ozinaldo's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Posts: 3,052
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clived View Post
The MOT now has vehicle specific emmisions tests, so my guess is no, it won't pass, but it isn't possible to say yet as the 1M emmisions targets for MOT have not been published by the DOT yet. However, this is the easiest part to swap back for MOT if need be, so I wouldn't let it stop you.

Re warranty, well, a clued up tech would know it isn't the right part, so it being OEM wouldn't ensure no issues, but I wouldn't anticipate any warranty issues from changing an exhaust component in any case...
I know this is different country and another market but just to let you know I am getting mine from the BMW dealer and I will let them install it when it comes (unless they give me a stupid price). They are well aware about my car, that it is new and under warranty but they don't seem to worry about that so neither do I About a possible exhaust emissions test, totally agree with what you say, any doubts just change it back.
ozinaldo is offline   Portugal
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 10:50 AM   #86
SDD
 
SDD's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 1M
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Diego

Posts: 219
iTrader: (0)

N55 vs. MadDad.... the MadDad video sounds great, damn this is hard
SDD is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 04:28 PM   #87
Ian///M
Major General
 
Ian///M's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: AU

Posts: 6,256
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Detail View Post
N55 vs. MadDad.... the MadDad video sounds great, damn this is hard
MadDad will give more power as larger diameter, but they are louder.... Sound exotic under hard acceleration

Zuzu, who has the N55 mids, and I will try do a side by side video soon
Ian///M is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2012, 05:23 PM   #88
nicoz
Private First Class
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Montreal

Posts: 120
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianf View Post
MadDad will give more power as larger diameter
It's the same 3'' pipe at the end anyways?! No?!
nicoz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST