1M midpipes v N55 midpipes

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by Zuzu

Actually it's 4Kw, which is about 5 bhp - which is nearly 25% of your claimed figures, so not insignificant.

Where did you get the 4Kw error in calcs from ?

OEM mid pip = 246

N55 pipe = 258.1

the difference is 12.1

I dont think you can use the 242 figure since that was with M off, right?

[clived]

Originally Posted by Papethova

OEM mid pip = 246

N55 pipe = 258.1

the difference is 12.1

I dont think you can use the 242 figure since that was with M off, right?

Correct, thank you Papethova

[NC]

All the scrutiny of Zuzu's results aside, even if it produced half the HP gain in terms of bang-for-the-buck you can't go wrong.

Zuzu - thanks for posting your data - much appreciated. My mid-pipe is on order.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by Zuzu

YES.. I am not a novice to tuning cars to be asked this ridiculous question..I am 51 yrs old and understand the basic parrameters when dynoing a car, and so does the operator..

Hey, gotta ask.

Originally Posted by Zuzu

Good Idea

New thread posted here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=656978

[///M1]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Well I'd say we're just asking for clarification at this point. Doubting may come later. I'm certain we'll get some more tests, and some of the guys with boost gauges will mention if they see a difference in boost. I'm also pretty sure tuners know how the software changes with the M button...

My observations:

1. I have dynoed the car with M button on, and with it off (in consecutive runs). No change in observed peak HP numbers.
2. I have a boost gauge (get's physical readings through DV lines as opposed to the CANbus version). No observed difference in peak boost between M and non-M mode (15psi peak on stock tune regardless if M button is engaged).
3. I have also logged the car in multiple parameters, peak included, through the AccessPort. Again no difference in peak boost was noticed whether M button was activated or not (via ECU readings this time).
4. Tuners like COBB have maps which disable the M button all-together (e.g. their 91 and 93 Linear Throttle maps where there is no difference if you depress the M button or not). This results in no change in recorded peak power as compared to there Non-Linear Throttle maps (where the M button is allowed to work). All it changes is sensitivity on throttle response, not peak power (nor boost).
5. I dynoed my MadDad mid pipe + Akra Slip-On and got a 10whp delta gain. Compared to the N55 mids, the MadDad is no less restrictive, in fact I'd venture to guess to say it is even freer flowing. Unless one can argue the Akra Slip-On (valves fully open) exhaust is more restrictive than stock (close to an impossibility), getting the alleged gains from an N55 mid pipe alone certainly look very optimistic. FWIW, I had the MadDad midpipe on my 135i and it recorded 8whp gains.

At the end of the day, I personally don't think the M button is any different than what I had on my E39 M5 (basically a factory-installed Sprintbooster that changes throttle response). What has documented here is definitely in contradiction, so I too would like to know what occurring.

[Advevo]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

Advevo,

Was the 1M you changed to N55 mid pipe, a stock car or with some engine/exhaust tune already that could affect the positive result you got?

Any additional comments on drone?

Thanks in advance.

stock engine and ecu. Only changed midpipe to n55. Overal sound is little louder. Drone is almost not there maybe a little bit.

[bdaddylo]

Sorry for getting off topic. The easiest way to determine if your exhaust is droning, simply drive with your rear seats down. I stumbled onto this when I was transporting my track wheels last weekend.

[LotusBoy]

Hi guys, and special thanks to Mr Zuzu for his time, money spent and most importantly for his patience. While a 16hp is quite an impressive gain for such a relatively small mod, it confirms that there's definitely a power gain, together with a bit more sound. Now why it is a bit more than expected could be down to:
1: more milage
2: type and temperature of fuel
3: running-in oil Vs normal oil
As for the M button, most tuners seem to agree it has a negilgible effect on the curves, so what could explain the difference here could be the following. Zuzu explained us that his car made a bit more power after each run, which is unusual. But we know also that the ECU is progressively adapting to fuel quality. So if the last fill up was better than the previous, it would explain why the 1st run (M off) and then subsequent runs (M on) showed increasing numbers. In this case the increase would reflect ECU adaptation, and not M button position. German/swiss tuners are known to measure their cars with 100 to 102 octane gas, so it certainly makes a difference. There was also an article in EVO on the subject, where they used a Golf 5 GTI to rate the different fuels available in the UK, with significant differences. But anyway, back to this post: the mid-pipe is in my view the single most interesting modification for the 1M.
Thanks again, Zuzu !

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by LotusBoy

Hi guys, and special thanks to Mr Zuzu for his time, money spent and most importantly for his patience. While a 16hp is quite an impressive gain for such a relatively small mod, it confirms that there's definitely a power gain, together with a bit more sound. Now why it is a bit more than expected could be down to:
1: more milage
2: type and temperature of fuel
3: running-in oil Vs normal oil
As for the M button, most tuners seem to agree it has a negilgible effect on the curves, so what could explain the difference here could be the following. Zuzu explained us that his car made a bit more power after each run, which is unusual. But we know also that the ECU is progressively adapting to fuel quality. So if the last fill up was better than the previous, it would explain why the 1st run (M off) and then subsequent runs (M on) showed increasing numbers. In this case the increase would reflect ECU adaptation, and not M button position. German/swiss tuners are known to measure their cars with 100 to 102 octane gas, so it certainly makes a difference. There was also an article in EVO on the subject, where they used a Golf 5 GTI to rate the different fuels available in the UK, with significant differences. But anyway, back to this post: the mid-pipe is in my view the single most interesting modification for the 1M.
Thanks again, Zuzu !

Agreed. Interesting input, I also consider the mid-pipe change the way I did consider the change of tires to PSS that I am already experiencing with great satisfaction, these are the cost effective mods for the 1M which do not alter the driving characteristics of the car to something else, void warranty or put a hole in your wallet.

From what others also commented, like Advevo's input, the gains are not limited to a slight (or not) increase in power/torque, it enhances the sound, it cures the drone (partially or more), it gives better throttle response, it makes the engine more free reving at the top of the band where it needs it, is OEM part which fits just like a glove and costs more or less the same of a rear spoiler. Well, I am sold.

Zuzu, thanks for all the time and patience.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Advevo

stock engine and ecu. Only changed midpipe to n55. Overal sound is little louder. Drone is almost not there maybe a little bit.

Thanks, I appreciate. Clearly worth to change to N55 mid pipes.

[Ian///M]

MadDads mids as an alternative to N55 mids



Doesn't do the true sound justice... better when driving than sitting revving

[Zuzu]

Originally Posted by NC

All the scrutiny of Zuzu's results aside, even if it produced half the HP gain in terms of bang-for-the-buck you can't go wrong.

Zuzu - thanks for posting your data - much appreciated. My mid-pipe is on order.

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

Zuzu, thanks for all the time and patience.

Originally Posted by LotusBoy

Thanks again, Zuzu !

You welcome guys...

[Aussie_in_London]

Thanks for all the input guys, sounds like its a well worth oem mod for the 1M at a small outlay in cost.....

[jan9]

Because it is an oem part, do you think there will be no issues with warranty? Also will it pass emission tests in the UK when it comes to MOT time?

[clived]

The MOT now has vehicle specific emmisions tests, so my guess is no, it won't pass, but it isn't possible to say yet as the 1M emmisions targets for MOT have not been published by the DOT yet. However, this is the easiest part to swap back for MOT if need be, so I wouldn't let it stop you.

Re warranty, well, a clued up tech would know it isn't the right part, so it being OEM wouldn't ensure no issues, but I wouldn't anticipate any warranty issues from changing an exhaust component in any case...

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by clived

The MOT now has vehicle specific emmisions tests, so my guess is no, it won't pass, but it isn't possible to say yet as the 1M emmisions targets for MOT have not been published by the DOT yet. However, this is the easiest part to swap back for MOT if need be, so I wouldn't let it stop you.

Re warranty, well, a clued up tech would know it isn't the right part, so it being OEM wouldn't ensure no issues, but I wouldn't anticipate any warranty issues from changing an exhaust component in any case...

It will still pass emissions with the secondary cats removed. It won't if the primary cats on the DP's are removed.

[clived]

Ian even the vehicle specific emmissions tests? Do you know what the target figures will be for the 1M?

[Aussie_in_London]

Just ordered mine, will fit sometime next week........

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by clived

The MOT now has vehicle specific emmisions tests, so my guess is no, it won't pass, but it isn't possible to say yet as the 1M emmisions targets for MOT have not been published by the DOT yet. However, this is the easiest part to swap back for MOT if need be, so I wouldn't let it stop you.

Re warranty, well, a clued up tech would know it isn't the right part, so it being OEM wouldn't ensure no issues, but I wouldn't anticipate any warranty issues from changing an exhaust component in any case...

I know this is different country and another market but just to let you know I am getting mine from the BMW dealer and I will let them install it when it comes (unless they give me a stupid price). They are well aware about my car, that it is new and under warranty but they don't seem to worry about that so neither do I About a possible exhaust emissions test, totally agree with what you say, any doubts just change it back.

[SDD]

N55 vs. MadDad.... the MadDad video sounds great, damn this is hard

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by SD Detail

N55 vs. MadDad.... the MadDad video sounds great, damn this is hard

MadDad will give more power as larger diameter, but they are louder.... Sound exotic under hard acceleration

Zuzu, who has the N55 mids, and I will try do a side by side video soon

[nicoz]

Originally Posted by ianf

MadDad will give more power as larger diameter

It's the same 3'' pipe at the end anyways?! No?!