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      04-11-2012, 02:19 AM   #23
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Sorry to hear about the totaled 1M but good to hear the crew on board walked away (driver got hit though).

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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Since I have heard every version of this... it was a bird... a cat.. a dog... a javelina (pig)...deer..... everyone says they swerved to save the dumb animal (showing the driver to be a not so smart human).
And then there was also the "low-flying pelican" crossing the path of a Bugatti Veyron: http://jalopnik.com/5404403/exclusiv...nto-texas-lake

Accidents quickly happen. Below some old footage of an exclusive Ferrari ending up in a lake. Owner remains serene and admits it was just a matter of bad luck: gravel, bump, swerve and splash.
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      04-11-2012, 03:32 AM   #24
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is this result of DSC off in 1M. poor car.
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      04-11-2012, 04:35 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKM View Post
is this result of DSC off in 1M. poor car.
We do not know the circumstances, but usually it's a combination of factors: the conditions of the car, the driver, the weather and the road (including nearby fauna ) on the one hand, and the laws of physics on the other hand.

Though not unlikely, IMHO it's a bit too quick to jump into the conclusion that it was a "DSC off" accident. Could have been simply the driver distracted during the tuning into a radio channel or programming a destination on the SAT-NAV. The only thing we know is that the 1M ended up in a ditch on its roof and that neither any passenger, nor an occasional rabbit got hurt.
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      04-11-2012, 09:09 AM   #26
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The story from the driver was: worn and cold tires, gravel on the road and trying to avoid a rabbit. Lost control and struck the 70 km/h sign/pole on the drivers side. Driver did suffer from smashed ribs, punctured lung...
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      04-11-2012, 09:31 AM   #27
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My feelings go out to the 1M driver. Clearly more than just his body was hurt in the accident. And yes we don't know all the details... but I do agree with M3_Adjuster... just hit that annimal... the damage will be much less than trying a rapid lane change... where most drivers will over correct a few times and loose it on the 2nd or third "fish tail".

I use to teach HPDE at Summit Point, WV... the BSR guys would tell students that single car accidents are very common occuroance. Normally a distracted driver drops one wheel off the road(for what ever reason)... then jerks the steering wheel... and over corrects a gew times. Then by the second or third fish tail, the driver looses control and leaves the road!

The BEST thing to do is to LOOK where you want to go... NOT what you are about to HIT! Like that 70 kph speed limit sign(in this thread)! It is just like shooting a gun... you have to look at what you want to hit... IF you look at that tree or sign pole... that is what your gonna hit! So look at where you want your car to go!

BSR would do HPDE's for the DoD... what they would do is on the exit of turn ten, a high speed(70 mph or so) 90' turn leading onto a long straight away... they would lean over from the passenger seat and FORCE the student driver off the road. The instructor would only drop both left wheels off the track, leaving the other side's tires on dry pavement. Then they would sit back and watch how the "student" got back onto the track. The students that JERKED the steering wheel and fish tailed back onto the track failed thier DoD course. The ones who rode out the (off road)bumps and slowly got back onto paved surface with all four wheels - passed their DoD course.

And btw... the BSR instructors DID NOT tell the student driving thier old police package cars - about this "test". It was always a highlight of teh course for us "instructors".
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      04-11-2012, 10:33 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
just hit that animal... the damage will be much less than trying a rapid lane change... where most drivers will over correct a few times and loose it on the 2nd or third "fish tail".
[...]The BEST thing to do is to LOOK where you want to go... NOT what you are about to HIT! Like that 70 kph speed limit sign(in this thread)! It is just like shooting a gun... you have to look at what you want to hit... IF you look at that tree or sign pole... that is what your gonna hit! So look at where you want your car to go!
Collision avoidance. That's also what I was taught: try to resist the natural panic reflex to look at obstacles, but look where you wanna go. A policeman once told me that he was amazed by the number of accidents he had witnessed where a car ended up around a lonely tree or a pole on a long stretch, instead of in the ditch next to it (those who managed to regain control never got an accident and thus never required any police intervention, of course). "By focusing on the tree, you'll risk ending up on it - you gotta look where you want your car to go".

See also: http://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-an-Obst...ce-Without-ABS (How to Avoid an Obstacle on a Slippery Surface Without ABS):
"Look where you want the car to go (the solution) and not at the obstacle (the problem). This will allow you to steer away from the obstacle and to get over the urge to stay on the brakes. The way to do this is:
- shake your whole head away from the obstacle: this will force your eyes to follow.
- focus on a visual target down the road in which you seek to escape."


Of course, that's easier said than done, once you get into an emergency situation...
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      04-11-2012, 10:50 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Collision avoidance. That's also what I was taught: try to resist the natural panic reflex to look at obstacles, but look where you wanna go. A policeman once told me that he was amazed by the number of accidents he had witnessed where a car ended up around a lonely tree or a pole on a long stretch, instead of in the ditch next to it (those who managed to regain control never got an accident and thus never required any police intervention, of course). "By focusing on the tree, you'll risk ending up on it - you gotta look where you want your car to go"...

Speaking of Cops... cops will tell you that it really freaks them out when they pull somone over and they ask for your driver's lic or car papers... and the driver NEVER breaks eye contact with them as they go searching thru their car for said papers. By maintaining eye contact with the cop... the cop thinks you might be about to pull out a weapan - bc we all know you have to LOOK at what you wann hit/shoot! So... when you get pulled over... ALWAYS break eye contact when you go looking for your wallet or car papers thru out your car!!


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      04-11-2012, 10:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post

See also: http://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-an-Obst...ce-Without-ABS (How to Avoid an Obstacle on a Slippery Surface Without ABS):
"Look where you want the car to go (the solution) and not at the obstacle (the problem). This will allow you to steer away from the obstacle and to get over the urge to stay on the brakes. The way to do this is:
- shake your whole head away from the obstacle: this will force your eyes to follow.
- focus on a visual target down the road in which you seek to escape."

Of course, that's easier said than done, once you get into an emergency situation...
Even on a car with ABS sometimes it is good idea to deply FULL braking power when the car starts to slide(spin) and get away(rotate out of control). I use this technique back in teh days before ABS. But even with ABS this works well to stop a car from rotating. The problem with ABS car is when you RELEASE the brake pedal... since the ABS ecu has been locking and unlocking each wheel... the car can do strange things when you release pressure from the brake pedal... bc the car's suspension can be wound up!
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      04-11-2012, 12:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
My feelings go out to the 1M driver. Clearly more than just his body was hurt in the accident. And yes we don't know all the details... but I do agree with M3_Adjuster... just hit that annimal... the damage will be much less than trying a rapid lane change... where most drivers will over correct a few times and loose it on the 2nd or third "fish tail".

I use to teach HPDE at Summit Point, WV... the BSR guys would tell students that single car accidents are very common occuroance. Normally a distracted driver drops one wheel off the road(for what ever reason)... then jerks the steering wheel... and over corrects a gew times. Then by the second or third fish tail, the driver looses control and leaves the road!

The BEST thing to do is to LOOK where you want to go... NOT what you are about to HIT! Like that 70 kph speed limit sign(in this thread)! It is just like shooting a gun... you have to look at what you want to hit... IF you look at that tree or sign pole... that is what your gonna hit! So look at where you want your car to go!

BSR would do HPDE's for the DoD... what they would do is on the exit of turn ten, a high speed(70 mph or so) 90' turn leading onto a long straight away... they would lean over from the passenger seat and FORCE the student driver off the road. The instructor would only drop both left wheels off the track, leaving the other side's tires on dry pavement. Then they would sit back and watch how the "student" got back onto the track. The students that JERKED the steering wheel and fish tailed back onto the track failed thier DoD course. The ones who rode out the (off road)bumps and slowly got back onto paved surface with all four wheels - passed their DoD course.

And btw... the BSR instructors DID NOT tell the student driving thier old police package cars - about this "test". It was always a highlight of teh course for us "instructors".
Small world. I regularly instruct at Summit Point!

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      04-11-2012, 12:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
Accidents quickly happen. Below some old footage of an exclusive Ferrari ending up in a lake. Owner remains serene and admits it was just a matter of bad luck: gravel, bump, swerve and splash.
Not to turn this into a debate regarding the Ferrari in the water but...
The guy (Ferrari race car driver wannabe) can't drive (or he had a major lapse of concentration). The rear stepped out, he lifted, the rear came around because the weight transferred off the back end and he went for a drink. He might want to consider a full faced helmet in his FXX.

The 1M is no different in regards to keeping your foot on the throttle when it steps out. I've been near the limit on track with electronics off, lifted mid corner (to see how it reacted), and the rear started to step out quickly. A little counter steering, back to the throttle and the diff worked things out nicely but if someone wasn't ready for this they would probably lose control. I highly recommend everyone auto-x or track their cars so they can explore the limits in a proper setting. I am by no means saying this wrecked 1M was doing anything wrong. Conditions may have lead to the incident. As much as I want a limited production car I just don't want more threads like this.
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Last edited by Dan Parker; 04-11-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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      04-11-2012, 09:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
when you get pulled over... ALWAYS break eye contact when you go looking for your wallet or car papers thru out your car!!
+ both hands on top of the steering wheel + explain what you intend to do with your hands to reduce the risk of unpleasant surprises for them ("my papers are in my pocket - may I take them ?");
+ courteous and respectful attitude: sincere answers ("I was speeding - stupid of me, Sir", no BS/lying ("Speeding ? No way !") and no threats ("You got no proof" - "I have a good lawyer");
+ redemption (including eyes regularly looking down).

So far always got away with "You seem to be an OK guy. This time, you'll get away with a warning". Not fooling them. Just a matter of respect. And yes, all encounters ended with a fine talk about fast cars. Lots of petrol heads amongst the road police.
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      04-11-2012, 09:23 PM   #34
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Ouch.
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