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      05-08-2012, 01:42 PM   #45
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This is an old argument with no right answer! Having had the last 3 generations of M3 and a 2001 M Roadster, I can safely say the Z4 35is blows them all away in the driving fun most of us will ever do. Well, maybe can't go quite as deep in to corners, and my nerve runs out way before the grip does because of the handling characteristics, but this thing is fast and just a blast to drive. I have had it on the track and in sport + mode with the DCT snapping off shifts, man I feel like Alonso! It is not a Boxster, but blows it away in looks, comfort and flat out acceleration. I mean it is the same engine as the 1M exactly! It is very pricey, but still less than Boxster or Cayman if you throw in all the Porsche options. If BMW would just tweak the suspension, steering and brakes just a bit! Guess I'm asking for full blown M! Bottom line, it is not for everyone, but for me it fits the bill perfectly. Fast, good looking roadster that will carve up curvy roads as much as I need to. Hope they don't change the looks too much next go round.
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      05-08-2012, 01:57 PM   #46
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Glad all the e89 z4 drivers are here to defend our cars.

The e89 is a great overall well rounded car. It's comfortable, drop dead gorgeous looks, luxurious, sporty, fast, beautiful with the top up or down, and a hoot to drive. No it's not a Boxter, no it's not a true roadster, but isn't that why BMW is considering coming out with the Z2? I will admit that spending close to $70k for an optioned out 35is is paying a pretty penny, but the n20 sdrive28i starts at sub $50k and can be well optioned for $55k. Add in the current BMW factory incentives, and the car is still somewhat reasonable (relative to the competition i.e. the SLK).

The current e89 priced itself into a higher class/category of car, but the improvements over the e85 do somewhat justify it's higher price. Sure it's lost a bit of the raw handling/feel, but it's still a very capable track machine. Yeah there's a bunch of enthusiasts on this board, but let's be real - you're driving the car 95%+ either to work or relaxing on a sunny weekend much more often than you'll be pushing the car on a road race course. If you've got the disposable income to purchase one of these cars, you will be more than happy. If you're a kid dreaming about "one day buying one used", continue dreaming until that day is reality. In the mean time, BMW is looking to sell some brand new cars. If you're an adult that does have the means to buy this car but wished it were more sporty, well BMW offers you plenty of other choices (e.g. e92 M3). For everyone else, BMW has perfected everything you could possibly need (other than a larger trunk) with the current e89.
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      05-08-2012, 01:59 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
The Z4 lost a lot of its everyday practicality when they got rid of the Z4-coupe. It had a large boot easily accessible with a rear hatch. It was a lot easier to live with on a day to day basis, as your only vehicle. I bet a lot of people would be driving a N54 powered Z4-coupe, if it existed.
I have the current Z4 and it has become my daily driver. Trunk space hasn't hindered me from using it everyday at all. The Z4s drivers main complaint is being unable to fit a golf club but only when the top is down. With the top up, a golf club could fit in there w/o much hassle and if they had a coupe, they wouldn't be able to put the top down anyways so I say just drive with the top up when your going to play golf, just as you would with the coupe anyways.

Z4 coupes trunk is definitely bigger but the E89s trunk space isn't as bad as most think.



I also disagree with BMW not seeing the current Z4 as having a classic design. I see it aging well and I saw the car that way before I even owned one and was considering the Cayman so I am not really as biased being an owner. It's simply a classic roadster look (long hood, short trunk) and the addition of the hardtop is just a big plus. The cabin is quieter and I can actually leave the car outside (and even drive it) even in the most severe weathers. As severe as it can get in Cali anyways.
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      05-08-2012, 02:02 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by rfx45 View Post
I have the current Z4 and it has become my daily driver. Trunk space hasn't hindered me from using it everyday at all. The Z4s drivers main complaint is being unable to fit a golf club but only when the top is down. With the top up, a golf club could fit in there w/o much hassle and if they had a coupe, they wouldn't be able to put the top down anyways so I say just drive with the top up when your going to play golf, just as you would with the coupe anyways.

Z4 coupes trunk is definitely bigger but the E89s trunk space isn't as bad as most think.
I hear ya. It just isn't the same, a rear hatch just ads more room and usability. I was always amazed at the amount of crap my buddy would fit in his Z4M on road trips.
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      05-08-2012, 02:21 PM   #49
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Don't get me wrong though, I am not opposed to a coupe version, I prefer there to be more choices than none. It just depends how the coupe would look, I don't think a hatch version of the E89 would look good but if it looks like the rendering below (more of a fastback), then the decision between a coupe and roadster might have been more difficult for me.
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      05-08-2012, 02:53 PM   #50
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      05-08-2012, 04:18 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by rfx45 View Post
Don't get me wrong though, I am not opposed to a coupe version, I prefer there to be more choices than none. It just depends how the coupe would look, I don't think a hatch version of the E89 would look good but if it looks like the rendering below (more of a fastback), then the decision between a coupe and roadster might have been more difficult for me.
That looks amazing
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      05-08-2012, 04:39 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfx45 View Post
Don't get me wrong though, I am not opposed to a coupe version, I prefer there to be more choices than none. It just depends how the coupe would look, I don't think a hatch version of the E89 would look good but if it looks like the rendering below (more of a fastback), then the decision between a coupe and roadster might have been more difficult for me.
Follow up to other comment, I agree, "amazing"
Looking at the rendering the engineers in Munich must come-up with a way for that top to drop.
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      05-08-2012, 05:06 PM   #53
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I may be the target market for the Z4- I wanted a fun weekend and nice day car, looking for more of a touring package than anything hard core. I do like to drive it in a spirited fashion and seek out fun roads to play on all the time.

I originally thought E85 and although the styling wasn't a big pull, it was really the spartan layout and lack of amenities that kept me from pulling the trigger.

Then I thought Mazda Miata MX5 as it was only going to be a weekend summer car. Too small and too plasticky but definitely cheap, even with the hardtop.

Then I drove a Audi TT roadster. Nice fit and finish but the bathtub styling did nothing for me.

Thought Boxster but couldn't rationalize the price hike for a toy.

When the E89 came out, it ticked all the boxes- great looks, hardtop, room for weekend bags, even with the top down. (Golf clubs I put in the E46 Touring), modern amenities like bluetooth, nav, ipod link, gorgeous feeling Nappa leather. I drive the car with top down 98% of the time, but I like the security of the hardtop when parked. It has only seen rain once , in Germany. It's a car two people can ride in comfortably and in normal mode/Drive, my wife makes no complaints about harsh ride. Sport +/paddles is for when I want to feel something a bit more responsive. When the time comes, will have a hard time deciding between Michelin Pilot Sports or the next gen runflats.

Like secretsquirrel said above, for a lot of us, this is the sportiest car we've owned. Nothing wrong with that, and I for one am really happy with it.
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      05-08-2012, 06:22 PM   #54
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If I wanted a Boxster or Cayman... I would have bought one... my 35is is as "hard edge" as I want for Day to Day driving.
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      05-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #55
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Totally agree with most of the comments, We own a Z4-35i the car draws more attention than a swim suit model, it performs exceeding well on all sorts of roads, however here are my recommendation, do-not mess with the style but do tweak the 50/50 balance. I agree with the comment, the nose is too long and adding bit of weight to the rear would not be a bad thing.
I would agree many of the comments in this thread. Additionally, as a female Z4 owner, this car attracts the "dudes" . I really like the graceful sexy look of it and would only make the rear end a bit more interesting in the next model! I like that there is nothing quite like it out there. It is, for me, a sports car. With adaptive m suspension, sport paddles, DCT and normal, sport and sport plus modes and 300 HP, I see nothing lacking for the way I drive. I'll trade a heavy roof for an auto hardtop anytime.
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      05-08-2012, 07:03 PM   #56
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I love the current body style Z4 35is, I don't see how it can get any better, but then again, that's what I said about the 5-series...
I agree
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      05-08-2012, 07:34 PM   #57
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I guess I'm in the minority in thinking the E60 was simply an ugly car? I can;t stand that Arcangeli trunk design.
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      05-08-2012, 07:55 PM   #58
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Good discussion in this thread. Lots of great posts.

I don't agree w/ some ppl's thinking that it should have a long hood for long hood's sake. I never understood that supposed 'roadster' mentality: where was it written that a 'true' roadster must have a long hood and short trunk? Everyone knows that we could fit a V12 in the E89: it's ridiculously long and has a lot of wasted space. I personally don't care for the long hood. I prefer smaller cars, so I don't understand this BMW logic of making larger cars just for the sake of making them look a certain way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
To any BMW engineers that probably aren't reading this: The engines are perfect you don't have to screw with the too much. Focus on the steering, reducing the weight, and suspension.

To BMW designers: Don't f*ck with anything. Its perfect the way it is. If you must do something mess with the back; make it a little more like the old Z4.
Seriously you already have one of the best looking cars on sale. Don't take this as an opportunity to go revolutionary.
We have similar tastes. I personally love the E85 (it's a great, small machine). I love smaller cars and also agree that the back is better looking that the E89's.


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It remains a mystery to me how BMW, known for its sporty character, has failed to produce an 'affordable' sports car. Sure, M3, M5/6 offer amazing dynamics that compete with most sports cars on the roads, but for the simple pleasures of small, simple sports cars, one needs to look to other brands. Z2??? PURE roadster simplicity? Let's hope!
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Sales numbers have been lacking, because of price. It is very easy to spec out a 35i in mid $60k. That just is too much for that car. I remember end of last year, BMW had insane lease deals on the Z4.
The E89 is nearly disgustingly overpriced for what one gets. I've said it many times that I CAN'T stand how BMW puts the same engine in many cars: you have the same engine in the 1 and the 3 for way lower price (were talking 5 figures difference in some cases!)! At least put some engine upgrades if they want to charge a premium for owning a Z, but it's ridiculous. It's a huge price hike from the E85 which is only partly justified due to the better luxury and hardtop, but not justified at all for what one gets in terms of (handling) performance (heavy compared to E85; RFT; no LSD; steering could be better; no coupe option).

The exterior looks nice enough (although the roof could have been designed more coherently w/ the rest of the car), but the interior is only alright imo. I don't like those 4 circle things for the HVAC, esp the metal trim around them, not flush at all and they just don't mesh well w/ the aluminum dash at all. I still think that Audi interiors are better.

Don't get me wrong, I love my E89 despite the above nitpicking. After almost 2 years' ownership, I still turn back for a peek when walking away after parking it. For my $, it was the best decision for me in terms of the total combining factors of looks/performance/luxury/practicality.
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      05-08-2012, 08:20 PM   #59
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Good discussion in this thread. Lots of great posts.

I don't agree w/ some ppl's thinking that it should have a long hood for long hood's sake. I never understood that supposed 'roadster' mentality: where was it written that a 'true' roadster must have a long hood and short trunk? Everyone knows that we could fit a V12 in the E89: it's ridiculously long and has a lot of wasted space. I personally don't care for the long hood. I prefer smaller cars, so I don't understand this BMW logic of making larger cars just for the sake of making them look a certain way.
It doesn't have to have a long hood and short trunk but that is the basis for a traditional roadster.

Also, just looking at BMWs roadster history, you can see that is how they've always made their roadster so you can say it is a homage to it's predecessors. From the 315/319 from 1934:


The 328 roadster from 1936:


The 587 from 1958:


Then it it goes to the Z1 in the 80's followed by the Z3 in the 90's, the Z8 in the 2000's up to todays E89. Not to mention the other earlier roadsters like the Ford Deuce, Porsche 356, Cobra roadster, '56 Corvette, etc...

It's all had a rather long hood and short trunk, the E89 simply emphasizes it more than the last gen Z3 & Z4 but I feel it looks great because of it.

BMW roadster history here if you want to read up on it: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/29/b...ing-roadsters/


As for the hood, it isn't excessively long just to be long. I'm no expert but I am not sure a V12 can fit in there, the I6 on the 35i already occupies most of the space under the hood.





Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
The exterior looks nice enough (although the roof could have been designed more coherently w/ the rest of the car), but the interior is only alright imo.
I also respectfully disagree here. Out of all the hardtop roadsters in this class/price range, it integrates the hardtop best in the E89. The SLK looks odd, the Lexus ISC looks terrible and so does the E93. It looks like add-on to those cars while on the E89 it looks smooth and like it actually belongs to the car. Most even mistake it my E89 for a coupe until I open up the roof then they are in awe at what they were seeing.
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      05-08-2012, 08:42 PM   #60
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As for the hood, it isn't excessively long just to be long. I'm no expert but I am not sure a V12 can fit in there, the I6 on the 35i already occupies most of the space under the hood.
Ya, I was actually referring to the Z4 GT3, which has a V8, so definitely more space than necessary for our current I6s and now those I4s!

As for the roadsters of old, I don't believe in following tradition for tradition's sake. They were limited in terms of technology and had to build things a certain way. There were no mid-engine roadsters back then, I don't think, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfx45 View Post
I also respectfully disagree here. Out of all the hardtop roadsters in this class/price range, it integrates the hardtop best in the E89. The SLK looks odd, the Lexus ISC looks terrible and so does the E93. It looks like add-on to those cars while on the E89 it looks smooth and like it actually belongs to the car. Most even mistake it my E89 for a coupe until I open up the roof then they are in awe at what they were seeing.
It looks good but the meshing between the roof and rest of the car is not perfect, like the 458 Spider (yes, obviously not in same price range but to show the std)...now that is perfect integration. Objectively-speaking, the Z4's roof does look a bit smaller than the rest of the car.

I agree that our car is the best in the price range in terms of roof integration though; the new SLK's integration looks fine also.
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      05-08-2012, 09:25 PM   #61
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I am not for following tradition just for the sake of it but to me it's just a roadster characteristic I like. If it doesn't have along hood and short trunk, it is just a convertible to me. Plus make the E89 any shorter and I don't think it'll look as good. It's that whole shape and design that I love.

I'd love to see a V8 in the E89 but really, with a V8 the price will be ridiculous and I don't know if many will splurge on it when it reaches a whole new price range level. That'll be 6-series territory.

And yeah, The 458 Spyder isn't even a fair comparison but it's one of the well integrated hardtops in the industry. I also like how the Californias hardtop is integrated.

The new SLKs hardtop still looks a bit awkward to me though. Maybe because I also feel that the car just isn't as designed well, the front and back feel like they belong to different cars so the addition of the hardtop makes it look more weird to my eye. Maybe it's just me?
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      05-08-2012, 10:03 PM   #62
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Quote:
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I'd love to see a V8 in the E89 but really, with a V8 the price will be ridiculous and I don't know if many will splurge on it when it reaches a whole new price range level. That'll be 6-series territory.

And yeah, The 458 Spyder isn't even a fair comparison but it's one of the well integrated hardtops in the industry. I also like how the Californias hardtop is integrated.

The new SLKs hardtop still looks a bit awkward to me though. Maybe because I also feel that the car just isn't as designed well, the front and back feel like they belong to different cars so the addition of the hardtop makes it look more weird to my eye. Maybe it's just me?
Yes, I think they do sell the Z4 GT3 but for some crazy 6-figure price.

The California looks great as well. It has the same roof ftn design as our car but it looks much better and more coherent.

Just talking about the roof it looks fitting enough, but I don't like the SLK's looks either...it has the face of the SLS, however, I liked the old SLK's w/ its F1-inspirated face better. The rear in both versions still looks very plain and the profile is bland as well. The interior is better than the Z4 though imo.
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      05-08-2012, 11:15 PM   #63
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One thing is very clear.., those that actually own the car and live with it everyday, love it dearly. That in itself speaks volumes, cognitive dissonance not withstanding.
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      05-08-2012, 11:21 PM   #64
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I'm pretty content with my current Z4 as it is. But I'd be all over an M version should BMW ever bring it back.
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      05-09-2012, 01:06 AM   #65
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The next Z4 will be called the Z5, and the upcoming Z3 will take the current Z4's place, and will hopefully be more grassroots than has been offered by BMW in years.
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      05-09-2012, 07:02 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
Good discussion in this thread. Lots of great posts.

I don't agree w/ some ppl's thinking that it should have a long hood for long hood's sake. I never understood that supposed 'roadster' mentality: where was it written that a 'true' roadster must have a long hood and short trunk? Everyone knows that we could fit a V12 in the E89: it's ridiculously long and has a lot of wasted space. I personally don't care for the long hood. I prefer smaller cars, so I don't understand this BMW logic of making larger cars just for the sake of making them look a certain way.
Its not that roadsters have to have long hoods. Its just that traditionally they do. Personally I don't have a problem with longer cars, just as long as they keep the weight down.
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