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      06-11-2012, 03:11 AM   #1
Sauce
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So who wants to help me tackle cooling on a budget?

Alright guys. It's summer and I don't want to be dodging limp mode all day, however I'd rather spend $1,500 on tires, track time etc. than an oil cooler. I reckon w/ some know how and determination I can do it on the cheap. I'm talking fabbing up my own oil cooler, covering everything possible in the engine bay in cool tape, wrapping the exhaust (I'm too cheap for jet hot), raising the rear of the hood. Literally any little trick in the book that can be done cheaply, maybe requiring some elbow grease. I plan on tackling it and I'll make sure to document everything I do here. Any suggestions/help off the bat?
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      06-11-2012, 03:16 AM   #2
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i pulled the oil thermostat out, pulled all the plastic off the back of the engine bay, and jacked the back of my hood up about 1/2". Id say it helped ~5* total. but it was all for free, so not too bad.
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      06-11-2012, 03:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezeedee View Post
i pulled the oil thermostat out, pulled all the plastic off the back of the engine bay, and jacked the back of my hood up about 1/2". Id say it helped ~5* total. but it was all for free, so not too bad.
Awesome!!! Exactly the stuff I'm searching for. Can I ask you how you raised the hood up? And when you say plastic pieces you mean the filter housing thing?
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      06-11-2012, 05:48 AM   #4
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Maybe more than you want to spend, but here's a post that lists parts to retrofit the Performance 2nd radiator.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1273&highlight
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      06-11-2012, 06:23 AM   #5
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Very interesting project. I've been taking the traditional route to improve cooling by installing the PPK2 radiator/850w fan and the ER sport oil cooler. Oil temps have improved about 15 degrees but can still rise pretty quickly when driving hard. The last time I was under the hood, I noticed that there may be room to add ventilation to the back of the engine bay by drilling out some of the plastic on the back tray that the cabin filter bolts on. The rear hood seal slips onto a vertical support on the tray which is about 1-2 inches high. Seems like you could drill some ventilation holes in the vertical support with a small hole saw to let some of the heat pass under the seal. Probably not as good as raising the hood, but just a thought. Another crazy thought I've been have is... running cooling ducts to the turbos. Not sure if this would do much but I understand the failure rate of the rear turbo is significantly higher because of the lack of cooling.
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      06-11-2012, 07:10 AM   #6
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Why not install the 1M's larger cooling radiator? I would think the route Pig_Farmer went was the right one... but if he is still getting hot temps... then the next step is increased cooling via the main radiator. Perhaps that is why //M went that route.
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      06-11-2012, 07:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Farmer View Post
...Another crazy thought I've been have is... running cooling ducts to the turbos. Not sure if this would do much but I understand the failure rate of the rear turbo is significantly higher because of the lack of cooling.

I think just letting the engine run/cool down after a hard run would be the best way to avoid the meltdown of the turbos. That and frequent oil changes. When I was at the Welt for M3_Adjuster 's ED delivery the SA at the Welt said that you SHOULD always just let the engine run a few minutes after a long hard run or long drive. This is just common sense I think. He said that the turbos can literally be red hot after a hard run. And letting the engine run a few minutes can let the turbos cool down enough not to be critical heat temps.
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      06-11-2012, 08:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauce View Post
Awesome!!! Exactly the stuff I'm searching for. Can I ask you how you raised the hood up? And when you say plastic pieces you mean the filter housing thing?
the cabin filter housing is still there, but i took out all the covers over the dme box (already waterproof) and the master cylinder, etc...

I just stacked some washers between the hood and the mounting bracket, i needed longer bolts though. it only takes a few minutes, the longest part is getting gaps on the side right.

Even with my oil thermostat popped out, i haven't noticed any noticeably longer warm-up times.

I also run my JB4 on maxcool mode. Not sure how this will affect the lifespan of the water pump, and the fan noise is a bit annoying (no more so that my flywheel chatter), I rarely get above 230-240* when 250 used to be the norm.
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      06-11-2012, 05:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I think just letting the engine run/cool down after a hard run would be the best way to avoid the meltdown of the turbos. That and frequent oil changes. When I was at the Welt for M3_Adjuster 's ED delivery the SA at the Welt said that you SHOULD always just let the engine run a few minutes after a long hard run or long drive. This is just common sense I think. He said that the turbos can literally be red hot after a hard run. And letting the engine run a few minutes can let the turbos cool down enough not to be critical heat temps.
You're not kidding about being "red hot". Just installed a P3gauge which among other things lets you see the real time exhaust gas temps. On a single WOT run from 20 to 145 the EGT reach 1522F. It dropped pretty quick after the run and stayed around 1050F after a mile at 80mph. After 2 minutes of idling it fell below 700F. I don't think the EGTs are exactly the same as the turbos' sustained temps, but it goes to show you what kind of abuse they experience. And while some people will point out that the water pump continues to run and cool the turbos after you shut down, I agree it is best to let the engine idle for a minute or two before turning the car off.
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      06-11-2012, 05:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Farmer View Post
You're not kidding about being "red hot". Just installed a P3gauge which among other things lets you see the real time exhaust gas temps. On a single WOT run from 20 to 145 the EGT reach 1522F. It dropped pretty quick after the run and stayed around 1050F after a mile at 80mph. After 2 minutes of idling it fell below 700F. I don't think the EGTs are exactly the same as the turbos' sustained temps, but it goes to show you what kind of abuse they experience. And while some people will point out that the water pump continues to run and cool the turbos after you shut down, I agree it is best to let the engine idle for a minute or two before turning the car off.

When I had my car's DME flashed by Marcel from MS Tuning over here... one of the things he does is drive the car before and after and makes a data-log. One of the things he looks at is EGT (exhaust gas temps). You can check/monitor them with the BT scan tool. I think the highest we got up too was 690' C. That is about 1460' F. Of course having a fairly empty autobahn with no speed limits helps get the temps to peak levels!

In case you wanna see my flash tune write up here it is...
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528152


I've been running Marcel's tune for over a year now and I am a happy camper. Not one engine check light nor any hiccups. Just what I wanted, no fuss just go! And I don't have to worry about the engine melting after a hard autobahn run.

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      06-11-2012, 09:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
Maybe more than you want to spend, but here's a post that lists parts to retrofit the Performance 2nd radiator.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1273&highlight
I mean, it's not that I won't spend the money. But I am just looking for all the little ins and outs that most people don't look for/find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Farmer View Post
Very interesting project. I've been taking the traditional route to improve cooling by installing the PPK2 radiator/850w fan and the ER sport oil cooler. Oil temps have improved about 15 degrees but can still rise pretty quickly when driving hard. The last time I was under the hood, I noticed that there may be room to add ventilation to the back of the engine bay by drilling out some of the plastic on the back tray that the cabin filter bolts on. The rear hood seal slips onto a vertical support on the tray which is about 1-2 inches high. Seems like you could drill some ventilation holes in the vertical support with a small hole saw to let some of the heat pass under the seal. Probably not as good as raising the hood, but just a thought. Another crazy thought I've been have is... running cooling ducts to the turbos. Not sure if this would do much but I understand the failure rate of the rear turbo is significantly higher because of the lack of cooling.
Hmm, I'm going to take a look under there and see. Maybe there is a solution to some ducting to the turbos. The turbos no doubt are probably the largest cause of oil temps skyrocketing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ezeedee View Post
the cabin filter housing is still there, but i took out all the covers over the dme box (already waterproof) and the master cylinder, etc...

I just stacked some washers between the hood and the mounting bracket, i needed longer bolts though. it only takes a few minutes, the longest part is getting gaps on the side right.

Even with my oil thermostat popped out, i haven't noticed any noticeably longer warm-up times.

I also run my JB4 on maxcool mode. Not sure how this will affect the lifespan of the water pump, and the fan noise is a bit annoying (no more so that my flywheel chatter), I rarely get above 230-240* when 250 used to be the norm.
I am definitely going to do the hood, this weekend hopefully. I actually run w/ the covers you are referring to off out of sheer laziness from the JB4 install lol. Is there a difference between max cool mode and popping out the thermostat? I assumed that the maxcool mode ran everything at 100% immediately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Farmer View Post
You're not kidding about being "red hot". Just installed a P3gauge which among other things lets you see the real time exhaust gas temps. On a single WOT run from 20 to 145 the EGT reach 1522F. It dropped pretty quick after the run and stayed around 1050F after a mile at 80mph. After 2 minutes of idling it fell below 700F. I don't think the EGTs are exactly the same as the turbos' sustained temps, but it goes to show you what kind of abuse they experience. And while some people will point out that the water pump continues to run and cool the turbos after you shut down, I agree it is best to let the engine idle for a minute or two before turning the car off.
Yeah, this is what makes me want to wrap my exhaust. Wrapping can lead to moisture being trapped, but it's worth it to me.
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      06-12-2012, 10:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
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I am definitely going to do the hood, this weekend hopefully. I actually run w/ the covers you are referring to off out of sheer laziness from the JB4 install lol. Is there a difference between max cool mode and popping out the thermostat? I assumed that the maxcool mode ran everything at 100% immediately.
I know maxcool keeps the fan and the water pump at 100%, i honestly dont know what it does oil wise. I popped my oil thermostat with the mindset that if it limited flow by 1% when my car needed it the most, i wanted nothing to do with it. I can let my car idle for a minute or two before i drive away, and JB4 keeps boost at stock level before oil ticks over 160F anyway, so im not worried about the "excessive warm up times" that the people that havent done the mod complain about. Im all for it. Its a free 5 minute fix.
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      06-13-2012, 07:34 PM   #13
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Just thought of something really easy and cheap... Replace existing coolant with a 70/30 mix of demineralized water/coolant and add some water wetter to the mix. Probably good for a couple degrees for less than $50.
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      06-13-2012, 08:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Just thought of something really easy and cheap... Replace existing coolant with a 70/30 mix of demineralized water/coolant and add some water wetter to the mix. Probably good for a couple degrees for less than $50.
that's what I am running except with motul mocool mix. good for 10-15 deg. also run motul v-300 race oil. probably good for another 10-15
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      06-13-2012, 08:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Just thought of something really easy and cheap... Replace existing coolant with a 70/30 mix of demineralized water/coolant and add some water wetter to the mix. Probably good for a couple degrees for less than $50.
Yes, this is the first thing to do.
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      06-13-2012, 10:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Just thought of something really easy and cheap... Replace existing coolant with a 70/30 mix of demineralized water/coolant and add some water wetter to the mix. Probably good for a couple degrees for less than $50.

March till November I ran pure water. Simple tap water that I've boiled the night before. I've added 2 bottles of Water Wetter for lubrication. Never hit limp mode again. November-March I ran the OEM fluid mixed as suggested.
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      06-13-2012, 10:20 PM   #17
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March till November I ran pure water. Simple tap water that I've boiled the night before. I've added 2 bottles of Water Wetter for lubrication. Never hit limp mode again. November-March I ran the OEM fluid mixed as suggested.
Tap water? They do say NY has the best water in the country but I'd stick with demineralized or distilled water. Here in Florida our water is 90% alligator piss and 10% calcium... Not so good for the car!
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      06-13-2012, 10:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Farmer View Post
Just thought of something really easy and cheap... Replace existing coolant with a 70/30 mix of demineralized water/coolant and add some water wetter to the mix. Probably good for a couple degrees for less than $50.
Very good idea, I've had this on my list to do before the next track day.
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that's what I am running except with motul mocool mix. good for 10-15 deg. also run motul v-300 race oil. probably good for another 10-15
Any experience w/ the motul mocool mix vs. water and water wetter? Also what weight are you running w/ the v-300? I figure going to a 10-40 or even a 15-50 weight may help.
Quote:
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March till November I ran pure water. Simple tap water that I've boiled the night before. I've added 2 bottles of Water Wetter for lubrication. Never hit limp mode again. November-March I ran the OEM fluid mixed as suggested.
Great to hear your experience, thanks.
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      06-13-2012, 10:58 PM   #19
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And just FYI, I will start getting to these projects and documenting the results very soon. I just picked up catless dp's so I'm going to see how they affect temps on my current map and a map w/ more boost.
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      06-14-2012, 05:08 AM   #20
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The reason for 70/30 mix is that pure water has a lower boiling point.
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      06-14-2012, 06:52 AM   #21
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Any experience w/ the motul mocool mix vs. water and water wetter? Also what weight are you running w/ the v-300? I figure going to a 10-40 or even a 15-50 weight may help.
been using motul products from the start so not sure how they compare to water wetter but they essentially do the same thing.

I use 10-40 300V for spring through fall and BMW synthetic oil for winter. never ever had limp mode but had temps get close to 280 on very hot track days
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      06-14-2012, 09:20 AM   #22
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Is there DIY how to drain the coolant without removing an intercooler?
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