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      06-19-2012, 10:37 PM   #1
andrey_gta
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Meth kit on N52??- inspired by Gavin MMW and e46 m3 NA applications

I was intrigued by Gavin from MMW saying he is creating a meth kit for the supercharger ( a common application, but not yet for n52)

Searching for NA applications I found e46 M3's using the kits. I found this surprising and looked up that e46 m3 compression is about 11:1 vs n52 10:1 therefore, the effects could be similar but less in magnitude

Major concern with meth is that you need to change oil more often( it turns black quicker and may have increased lead content) and that an engine with aluminum has a very slight chance of corrosion( unlikely due to mist and vaporization and no evidence exists but if submerged in methanol, aluminum will react and corrode)

Second concern is how and when is it applied( all the time, past certain rpm, etc.)

Benefits are:
- in hot/ humid climates better performance and MPG, engine thinks its much cooler outside if meth is continuous flow ( this is what I am attracted to)
- boost to octane closer to 100, with out any tune it will make car take advantage of full 91 octane programming, in cases of poor gas quality thats just average at 91 octane( since gas prices are bound to rise this is a valid benefit)
- depending on mix, can mimic octane 100 -115 for race/offroad tunes like AA
- small increase in power, similar to a very weak nitrous boost( an e46 M3 owners words comparing Meth to boosted e46 330i)

lets have an intelligent discussion, the aim is to streamline current performance not to create a faster car

Please lets avoid the argument to just get a 135i or other car for speed.

(I will try to link all the above with sources as soon as possible.)

Source 1: http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=283833
Source 2: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1823222

Source 3 NA & low compression gained 20 whp: http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...ing-today.html
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128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: e46 m3 trans mnt, e36M lip Wishlist: m3 susp, n55 eng mnt, headers, LSD, finn dif e60


"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is

Last edited by andrey_gta; 11-03-2012 at 01:01 AM.
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      06-20-2012, 01:32 AM   #2
Jeef Beef
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You're gonna have to get a tune that handles the meth injection. I think that will be a pretty big issue.

All the piggies currently used by N54 guys have meth integration so for us it's just a simple bolt-on, not sure how it will work unless someone designs a tune for it. That'll cost a shitload and frankly not worth the capital outlay for +10hp.

EDIT: so just read above, it seems the meth kits he talks about allows you to adjust when and where you want the spray. That's interesting.
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      06-20-2012, 09:11 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef Beef View Post
You're gonna have to get a tune that handles the meth injection. I think that will be a pretty big issue.
Would this be handled by a 115 octane tune??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef Beef View Post
That'll cost a shitload and frankly not worth the capital outlay for +10hp.
I dont think HP for 128i is the focus, the focus is to have meth increase OEM 91/94 octane maps, more so for tuned maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef Beef View Post
EDIT: so just read above, it seems the meth kits he talks about allows you to adjust when and where you want the spray. That's interesting.
Yes this is very interesting and I dont know if this requires the tune to apply the injection, or simply expect it at X and Y RPM.


Also, do you know how the systems behave if the source of meth runs dry?
is it safe for an engine to stop receiving the octane boost
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128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: e46 m3 trans mnt, e36M lip Wishlist: m3 susp, n55 eng mnt, headers, LSD, finn dif e60


"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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      06-20-2012, 10:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta
I was intrigued by Gavin from MMW saying he is creating a meth kit for the supercharger ( a common application, but not yet for n52)

Searching for NA applications I found e46 M3's using the kits. I found this surprising and looked up that e46 m3 compression is about 11:1 vs n52 10:1 therefore, the effects could be similar but less in magnitude

Major concern with meth is that you need to change oil more often( it turns black quicker and may have increased lead content) and that an engine with aluminum has a very slight chance of corrosion( unlikely due to mist and vaporization and no evidence exists but if submerged in methanol, aluminum will react and corrode)

Second concern is how and when is it applied( all the time, past certain rpm, etc.)

Benefits are:
- in hot/ humid climates better performance and MPG, engine thinks its much cooler outside if meth is continuous flow ( this is what I am attracted to)
- boost to octane closer to 100, with out any tune it will make car take advantage of full 91 octane programming, in cases of poor gas quality thats just average at 91 octane( since gas prices are bound to rise this is a valid benefit)
- depending on mix, can mimic octane 100 -115 for race/offroad tunes like AA
- small increase in power, similar to a very weak nitrous boost( an e46 M3 owners words comparing Meth to boosted e46 330i)

lets have an intelligent discussion, the aim is to streamline current performance not to create a faster car

Please lets avoid the argument to just get a 135i or other car for speed.

(I will try to link all the above with sources as soon as possible.)

Source 1: http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=283833
Huh? N52 is 10.7 not 10.1

Due to being na and not SUPER high compression, 98 or maybe even 100 RON is PLENTY. (i seem to need 100 personally).. Add to that meth just like ethanol with less specific energy than petroleum, unless you tune for it you'll get a teeny tiny bit less power.

Also meth is NOTHING like nitrous, n2o is 33.33% oxygen right? Well air is roughly 23% oxygen.. This extra 50% oxygen which means more fuel can burn.. Gives you the ability to run way more fuel.. As well as being a cold charge among other things.. Meth just increases octane outright.
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      06-21-2012, 08:40 AM   #5
andrey_gta
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you are probably right that it is 10.7.

What is RON?

I wasn't saying meth is like nitrous, the author of the source thread mentioned that it felt like a weak nitrous.

Boosting octane and cooling the air intake is what appeals to be the most.
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In-progress: e46 m3 trans mnt, e36M lip Wishlist: m3 susp, n55 eng mnt, headers, LSD, finn dif e60


"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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      06-21-2012, 06:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta
you are probably right that it is 10.7.

What is RON?

I wasn't saying meth is like nitrous, the author of the source thread mentioned that it felt like a weak nitrous.

Boosting octane and cooling the air intake is what appeals to be the most.
Ron - research octane number. Is different to american aki octane.

True it'll cool the intake a little bit but it's injected after the volume of air is in the intake so there won't be much more oxygen to burn.
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