BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      07-17-2012, 04:55 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
Thats just like saying an o2 sensor will burn out lol

Ed: i know they do but it takes ages lol
True, though sims burn out much faster than 02s.

Either way, just turning them down is easier, cheaper, and creates no failure points. And lighter
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      07-17-2012, 05:18 PM   #68
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I'll have to find it when i get home (at work now ish)- the main (one of the) goals was light weight, theyr'e diamond shaped for less weight, and of course forged

And no, the reason they chose mg alu is because they have the same heat expansion characteristics so the block stays even

If you found the right one, from memory it has magnesium piston heads

Other facts: the camshafts are hollow hydroformed.

The n52 is the most technologically developed engine bmw's made, lightest (while still strong) materials, lightest everything, theres a reason it holds a record to do with that lol.. The only crazy electronic type tech on it though, is the valvetronic which appears to be fairly bulletproof lol

Ed: and on the orher topic, yes, if a 128i and 135i have the exact same suspension and brakes (and wheels ad tires) the 135i will be outperformed in all aspects other than acceleration.
Whats diamond shaped?

The reason mg was used was to save weight. Not due to similar expansion. Mg is lighter than Al and relatively strong(not as strong as Al). The N52 engine is not suitable for high hp applications. Thats pretty much a known given. The engine was developed using BMW's "Green" program. If it were as strong as the N54/55 units it would have been used in the 135's, 335is and 1M. A M car would certainly sport a lighter weight engine if any. They use N54's because they're stronger. Its that simple.

You didnt address my question regarding the 4g plant. Im curious to know what you mean.

Whats a Mg piston head? You cant forge Mg.
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      07-17-2012, 05:20 PM   #69
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Whats diamond shaped?

The reason mg was used was to save weight. Not due to similar expansion. Mg is lighter than Al and relatively strong(not as strong as Al). The N52 engine is not suitable for high hp applications. Thats pretty much a known given. The engine was developed using BMW's "Green" program. If it were as strong as the N54/55 units it would have been used in the 135's, 335is and 1M. A M car would certainly sport a lighter weight engine if any. They use N54's because they're stronger. Its that simple.

You didnt address my question regarding the 4g plant. Im curious to know what you mean.

Whats a Mg piston head? You cant forge Mg.
... Aren't the s65 and s85 Alu blocks?
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      07-17-2012, 05:22 PM   #70
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Yes they are:

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      07-17-2012, 05:24 PM   #71
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... Aren't the s65 and s85 Alu blocks?
The issue isnt Al its Mg. Mg is quite a bit softer than Al. My Al Corvette engine easily handles its 600+hp. There are many hi hp Aluminum engines for a long, long time. Surprised you wouldnt know that.
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      07-17-2012, 05:26 PM   #72
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The issue isnt Al its Mg. Mg is quite a bit softer than Al. My Al Corvette engine easily handles its 600+hp. There are many hi hp Aluminum engines for a long, long time. Surprised you wouldnt know that.
I do. I was leading to the fact that...
... the n54 is Alu/iron
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      07-17-2012, 05:33 PM   #73
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Nobody said it was faster around a track. Completely missing the point. Again.

The weight difference, per BMW, is 165 lbs. Many independent tests have shown it to be much greater-- for example, car and driver weighted theirs and found the weight difference to be 230 lbs. Either way it is certainly significant.

Additionally, the 128 is much closer to 50/50 weight distribution, which is much better for handling as well.

I would argue that both brake setups for the 1 series suck, but if I had to chose one, I'd rather have the setup that fades than the setup that catastrophically fails. That said, I wonder if the 128i setup on the 128i is actually more prone to fade than the 135i setup is on the 135i-- less weight to slow it down and less power means less speed to be slowing from. Either way, I don't believe BMW has ever actually shipped a car with good brakes from the factory. All of mine have been upgraded to full Brembo GT BBKs :roll eyes:

Either way,
Worst case for 128i brakes: fade (probably completely addressable through track pads)
Worst case for 135i brakes: cracked pistons, melted dust boots, fade. If you address the fade with pads, you increase temps making it more likely you'll have cracked pistons and melted dust boots.

High winding, from the drivers perspective, doesn't matter what the absolute redline is. The idea is that you have to work the trans over to stay in the power band rather than just relying on torque. It doesn't matter if that happens at 7000 rpm or at 8200 rpm (as it does in my DD e46 M3).
I come up with a whopping 56lbs(6 speed) using BMW's own data.
http://www.bmw128i.com/specifications/

Much closer to 50/50 distribution? Really, less than 1% is much closer? You're losing credibilty here.

You'll also take the 128's brakes? Wow! OK then.
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      07-17-2012, 05:35 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I do. I was leading to the fact that...
... the n54 is Alu/iron
N54 has Al block and head and always had. Dont know what you're getting at.
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      07-17-2012, 05:38 PM   #75
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Hey now, don't confuse him NYC6 the facts. He's having a hard enough time keeping up as it is.
Facts? He didnt state even one fact. Try again swifty.
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      07-17-2012, 05:39 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC6 View Post
I come up with a whopping 56lbs(6 speed) using BMW's own data.
http://www.bmw128i.com/specifications/

Much closer to 50/50 distribution? Really, less than 1% is much closer? You're losing credibilty here.

You'll also take the 128's brakes? Wow! OK then.
All the numbers I posted were taken directly from bmwusa.com today. The site you linked to was a BMW dealer-- never the most reliable source of info

But yes, I think that the 128 brakes relative to the power and weight of the 128 are a superior setup to the 135 brakes, relative to the power and weight of the 135.

Last edited by Obioban; 07-17-2012 at 05:50 PM.
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      07-17-2012, 05:45 PM   #77
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Back on 128i chat topic #2:

Lighter flywheel from JB racing, sold by TC kline racing:
http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs...Details637.cfm

have people had lighter flywheels in other cars??? Did you like it?
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      07-17-2012, 05:46 PM   #78
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC6 View Post
Meant E36, just a typo.

All things being equal the 128 would have the slightest edge in cornering. The weight difference is so minor its not really negligible. Especially since the 135's power more than makes up for it.
As for braking, its not an equal thing. The 135's brakes are much larger and have better calipers than the 128's. They are better for the street and limited track use. And yes, before someone else chimes in, they sometimes have issues with extreme track usage. Even still, they are much better than the N/A's cars setup.

Most of the things you talk about are your(or others) opinion of a car. You say that the handling is better with the Z06 over the ZR1 but using your C&D list there, its basically a matter of ones opinion.

There are many who could claim the the ZR1 is better handling, opinions based on your criteria. I'll stick to track times and other measurable data(along with personal opinion) to reach a conclusion. For me, the 135 has my vote in spades over the 'high winding' 128.
I seriously doubt the 128 is faster around any track than the 135.


You alone make up half this thread. In a thread called no 128i love

d'Fuck you doing here man? Are you that easily offended over the internet. By all means, be your car's knight in shining armor but do it else were. This might just be a legitimate 128i thread and you're about to ruin it.

Obviously you've never driven a 128i, otherwise you wouldn't be saying half the things you are. I've driven both, and that ~120lbs off the front nose does make a difference.
That's nyc6. He's already ruined one thread about 128s and is trying to ruin a second. All he cares about proving is how the 135 is so vastly superior to the 128, which seems to be stated almost everywhere in this forum. But he can't leave 128 owners alone to have even a single thread to ourselves.
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      07-17-2012, 05:47 PM   #79
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in an alternate universe, maybe the german 1er forums, do you think there is some 135i owner wishing he had a 125i?? I mean 95% of all e82 there come with m-sport bumpers... and he constantly gets comments "Nice 120d" :P
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      07-17-2012, 05:52 PM   #80
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coda- If some of you guys wouldnt constantly say the 128 is 'vastly' more reliable than the 135 then I wouldnt be here. But it always has be brought up by one dope in particular. Dont dish it if ya cant take it.

Not to mention all the others that joined in to have their say. Likewise I return the favor.
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      07-17-2012, 06:03 PM   #81
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Maybe we'll get back to the original subject at some point without these interjections.
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      07-17-2012, 06:04 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
Back on 128i chat topic #2:

Lighter flywheel from JB racing, sold by TC kline racing:
http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs...Details637.cfm

have people had lighter flywheels in other cars??? Did you like it?
Had it on the M3, hated it and sold it. They tend to have a constant chattering noise. I would leave them for dedicated track cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC6 View Post
coda- If some of you guys wouldnt constantly say the 128 is 'vastly' more reliable than the 135 then I wouldnt be here. But it always has be brought up by one dope in particular. Dont dish it if ya cant take it.

Not to mention all the others that joined in to have their say. Likewise I return the favor.
You really don't get when you're not wanted do you.
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      07-17-2012, 06:04 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
What with? 'yeah? Well.. You guys.. Your engines.. Your cars sometimes have a ticking noise which doesn't effect reliability, suck shit!' ???
Easy, my reply was not directed at you (just an observation in general). I drive a 128 and would prefer this stay on topic. We invite the 135 owners to comment when we make the 'reliability' statement.
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      07-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #84
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In the two and a half years that I've been on these boards, I've seen literally dozens upon dozens of threads documenting significant reliability issues with the 135i. I don't think I've ever seen a single instance of a 128i breaking down. Now, I'm not saying that every 135i is a ticking time bomb, but that the 128i is generally more reliable than the 135i is not a figment of anyone's imagination. Don't see what the big deal is in saying so.
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      07-17-2012, 06:32 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralPA E82
Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
What with? 'yeah? Well.. You guys.. Your engines.. Your cars sometimes have a ticking noise which doesn't effect reliability, suck shit!' ???
Easy, my reply was not directed at you (just an observation in general). I drive a 128 and would prefer this stay on topic. We invite the 135 owners to comment when we make the 'reliability' statement.
Haha, i wasnt angry, it was a joke

Needs more faces lol
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      07-17-2012, 06:37 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC6
Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
I'll have to find it when i get home (at work now ish)- the main (one of the) goals was light weight, theyr'e diamond shaped for less weight, and of course forged

And no, the reason they chose mg alu is because they have the same heat expansion characteristics so the block stays even

If you found the right one, from memory it has magnesium piston heads

Other facts: the camshafts are hollow hydroformed.

The n52 is the most technologically developed engine bmw's made, lightest (while still strong) materials, lightest everything, theres a reason it holds a record to do with that lol.. The only crazy electronic type tech on it though, is the valvetronic which appears to be fairly bulletproof lol

Ed: and on the orher topic, yes, if a 128i and 135i have the exact same suspension and brakes (and wheels ad tires) the 135i will be outperformed in all aspects other than acceleration.
Whats diamond shaped?

The reason mg was used was to save weight. Not due to similar expansion. Mg is lighter than Al and relatively strong(not as strong as Al). The N52 engine is not suitable for high hp applications. Thats pretty much a known given. The engine was developed using BMW's "Green" program. If it were as strong as the N54/55 units it would have been used in the 135's, 335is and 1M. A M car would certainly sport a lighter weight engine if any. They use N54's because they're stronger. Its that simple.

You didnt address my question regarding the 4g plant. Im curious to know what you mean.

Whats a Mg piston head? You cant forge Mg.
Please before you make another post, hit up google. Oh wow.. You have absolutely no idea - yes they used mg cos its lighter, but they used it AND alu because alu is stronger for the stuff that needs more strength, where tey can't use any OTHER materials as when te block gets hot, both mg and alu have same thermal expansion properties, they work well together

Diamond shaped as in they taper into the middle

The big point here is all the internals (cylinder walls, everything) are made of aluminium.. The mg just WRAPS around it all

On the aubject of o2 sims, they don't wearout, theyre a metal tube

Not forged, billet cnc'd

You'll see whether or not the n52 can take decent power soon enough. There is absolutely NO solid proof of anyone trying and failing yet

And i can't find anything on it being a 100% green engine.. Yeah they have all their 'green' tech in it, but it was designed for total performance. Fuel efficieny via light weight and response, valvetronic is both for power and efficiency for example.

Highway it uses 7/100 sure, (litres) but cane it on the track and it's more like 35/100 lol
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      07-17-2012, 07:10 PM   #87
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Please before you make another post, hit up google. Oh wow.. You have absolutely no idea - yes they used mg cos its lighter, but they used it AND alu because alu is stronger for the stuff that needs more strength, where tey can't use any OTHER materials as when te block gets hot, both mg and alu have same thermal expansion properties, they work well together

Diamond shaped as in they taper into the middle

The big point here is all the internals (cylinder walls, everything) are made of aluminium.. The mg just WRAPS around it all

On the aubject of o2 sims, they don't wearout, theyre a metal tube

Not forged, billet cnc'd

You'll see whether or not the n52 can take decent power soon enough. There is absolutely NO solid proof of anyone trying and failing yet

And i can't find anything on it being a 100% green engine.. Yeah they have all their 'green' tech in it, but it was designed for total performance. Fuel efficieny via light weight and response, valvetronic is both for power and efficiency for example.

Highway it uses 7/100 sure, (litres) but cane it on the track and it's more like 35/100 lol
Another snotty reply. Sure I'll play.
"The N52 is a aluminium/magnesium composite block engine. It is designed to be lightweight and for sub 200kw this is a good tradeoff. Increasing the stress on the engine with forced induction is not a good idea.

Its the "Camry" of BMW engines and designed to be economical and meet euro standards. If you want to beef up the N52 then you should try and find ways to mitigate the fuel efficiency devices i.e. DISA.

If you want to experiment, try and force the 2nd DISA actuator to be open at all times (3rd stage of the manifold). This should allow the maximum volume of air in the manifold be available at much lower rpms. Might not make the peak hp any higher but might give more power down low.

Remember this quote? It was was reply to a thread you started some time ago. You didnt learn then and not now it seems. An engine block itself is a most important piece in holding everything together. Mg doesnt have the strength to do that. You should try and google aluminum cylinder walls. Street high perf engines dont have Al cyl liners. They have cast iron liners. The N54/55 have cast iron liners.

Maybe you can google why the 1M didnt use the mag block. If its strong enough to handle the boost and lighter it would be insane not to use it in the newest M car.

Maybe theres a google funtion to answer your question about why there hasnt been a F/I N52 engine on the road in so many years of production? I'll tell you why, it wont handle it. Keep dreaming with your head in the sand for the magic hp bullet for your car.

Last edited by NYC6; 07-17-2012 at 07:25 PM.
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      07-17-2012, 07:29 PM   #88
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Ya know, 1addicts should be called 135addicts. As the original post says. No love for the 128. I am sure that there are a number of reasons why. This section is the only section in the entire forum where 128 owners get to play and chat. I'll add mine later. But please stay on topic, don't bash the 135 cuz then they get mad and come in our sandbox and kick the sand around. Stay on topic.

My 128 is awesome, Non RFT, BMW PE and the M3 sway bar and it's almost as fun to drive as my 318 Ti..
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