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      08-27-2012, 08:31 AM   #23
andrey_gta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post

Here you go! Can you spot the TRW stamp?
genuine Euro BMW wishbone image:



Source:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283578/ES252914/

Search with TRW branded parts included:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283578/


This is my next mod, just need to find best shipping quote
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128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: e46 m3 trans mnt, e36M lip Wishlist: m3 susp, n55 eng mnt, headers, LSD, finn dif e60


"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is

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      08-27-2012, 05:05 PM   #24
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ok, OEMbimmerparts can't do lower shipping as they "ship through bongo"

Turner send me a confusing email along the lines of 'that site offers OEM parts but we offer OE BMW parts' to which i replied they're the same (TRW) and same part numbers etc... i'm just assuming he means that they purchase their parts from BMW rather than straight from TRW, i think they're awake right now so a reply should be pretty speedy - he did say that they should be able to get them for the same price though, so fingers crossed
ED: so ECS has exactly the same parts for teh same price.. with the lower shipping they do? ooooooh

ED: Turner can't offer 'TRW' parts, none of their suppliers stock them, and they confirmed that the 'OE BMW' parts simply cost more as they're purchased from BMW with a markup.

he also said 'there may be differences between the two depending on what BMW requested' which as far as max @ OEM said and other forums/googling, is nothing at all.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283578/ES2581401/
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283577/ES2581398/ compare to http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283577/ES48830/ - even the bushing is the same colour ffs lol

for me ECS has about $100 cheaper shipping.

Last edited by flinchy; 08-27-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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      08-27-2012, 05:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
ok, OEMbimmerparts can't do lower shipping as they "ship through bongo"

Turner send me a confusing email along the lines of 'that site offers OEM parts but we offer OE BMW parts' to which i replied they're the same (TRW) and same part numbers etc... i'm just assuming he means that they purchase their parts from BMW rather than straight from TRW, i think they're awake right now so a reply should be pretty speedy - he did say that they should be able to get them for the same price though, so fingers crossed
ED: so ECS has exactly the same parts for teh same price.. with the lower shipping they do? ooooooh

There is a difference between OE and OEM.

OE are parts that are sold thru BMW.

OEM are parts that do not meet BMW standards but are sold for a lesser price, in the aftermarket world. What most people would call "seconds".


Many people do not realize that there IS a difference in parts. Even when they "look" the same. Like buying parts off of ebay... there IS a difference... even if the two parts "look" the same. This is why I would only buy parts from a BMW dealer.
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      08-27-2012, 05:22 PM   #26
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yes ECS has parts for lesser shipping cost

Yes TRW is OEM,and not OE BMW
However, TRW is stamped all over OE BMW parts...

I have even seen an image of TRW wishbone with ///M logo filed of !?
yeah i am very confused


Look: http://seekpart24.com/trw/track-cont...00571&at=18861



http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E90-E92-...ht_1762wt_1139
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128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: e46 m3 trans mnt, e36M lip Wishlist: m3 susp, n55 eng mnt, headers, LSD, finn dif e60


"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is

Last edited by andrey_gta; 08-27-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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      08-27-2012, 05:29 PM   #27
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I guess what I am trying to say is...

Say your a company(TRW) that makes parts for a certian auto maker(BMW M)... and you make a whole bunch of widgets for them. But 30% of the widgets fail to meet that company's design specs. What do you do with all those parts that you can not sell? You sell them as aftermarket parts to indi parts stores. THAT is OEM.
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      08-27-2012, 05:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
yes ECS has parts for lesser shipping cost

Yes TRW is OEM,and not OE BMW
However, TRW is stamped all over OE BMW parts...

I have even seen an image of TRW wishbone with ///M logo filed of !? yeah i am very confused
Look: http://seekpart24.com/trw/track-cont...00571&at=18861

///M is a trademark of M GMBH blah blah
when not sold by OEBMW you can't legally sell the ///M logo as far as i'm aware

Front Tension Strut - Left Mfg#: 31102283575~TRW http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283575/ES2581400/
Front Tension Strut - Right Mfg#: 31102283576~TRW http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283576/ES2581402/
Front Control Arm - Left Mfg#: 31102283577~TRW http://www.ecstuning.com/ES2581398/
Front Control Arm - Right Mfg#: 31102283578~TRW http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283578/ES2581401/
Headlight Adjustment Rod - Front Mfg#: 37142283867 http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/37142283867/ES66416/

Sub Total: $375.27 Shipping: $86.05 Total: $461.32

i'm pretty sure that's as cheap as it gets


also, i'm going to have to give a shout out to Doug @ Turner for otherwise exemplary service assistance and extremely quick replies, dealing with my email query in real time

sadly, th price difference of $461 shipped to $685 shipped is WAY too high for me to consider OEBMW parts.. even if i don't get an ///M logo, i'm not driving an M car, my vin doesn't say i am, but i 'm more than happy to go around corners faster than one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I guess what I am trying to say is...

Say your a company(TRW) that makes parts for a certian auto maker(BMW M)... and you make a whole bunch of widgets for them. But 30% of the widgets fail to meet that company's design specs. What do you do with all those parts that you can not sell? You sell them as aftermarket parts to indi parts stores. THAT is OEM.

ED: @ dack above, TRW doesn't only do the OEM, they do aftermarket for many JDM and USDM vehcles, based on googling the company when i first heard about this malarkey, TRW has a fairly strong brand reputation to uphold, i'm banking on that not being true. sure it could be, but you don't get repeat sales as a large business by screwing over your customers.

also, there may be x many thousand M cars which are guaranteed to get bmw putting the products on.. but how many others want to upgrade their suspension in future as non m cars, or repair failed m bits on an m car... TRW probably sells to OEBMW for less than they sell straight to places like ECS, it's also smart business i'd say?

these parts still come with a manufacturer defect warranty by law even

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=t...hrome&ie=UTF-8

all the quality complains i can see seem to come back to improper installation - well, unless they're 'made in china' every result that has that complains of qualiy lol

ED: oh and i forgot to say, thanks dack for the CDV DIY guide, seems suuuuuper easy, and $20 odd cheaper :P

Last edited by flinchy; 08-27-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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      08-27-2012, 05:45 PM   #29
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OEM may be TRW's way to keep the lights on while they stamp ///M on BMW OE parts

Good point about the 30% that dont meet OE spec, they possibly could be "OEM"
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      08-27-2012, 06:45 PM   #30
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Based on this info I'd rather pay the extra $$$ and get the ///M stamped parts. They could well be the same but I'm prepared to pay the difference to ensure they are full M spec.
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      08-27-2012, 07:23 PM   #31
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well i'll put in my order and i'll have a look at it for you when they arrive lol

i don't have quite enough play money that $200-$250 for an ///M stamp is viable :P

i sent an email to ECStuning asking it there was a difference though, hopefully they reply

EDIT:

Quote:
All of these parts are built to meet original equipment specification for fitment as well as durability.
in an inquiry about the TRW vs OEBMW parts

Last edited by flinchy; 08-27-2012 at 08:24 PM.
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      08-27-2012, 08:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
EDIT:
All of these parts are built to meet original equipment specification for fitment as well as durability.
sounds good.

i'm in the same boat. Lots of wants, not enough free $$$.

Since I never had any issues with OEM car parts( no china parts lol) this fits my budget.
I figure the install & alignment will run me $200, so this will eat up all the savings of going with TRW
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"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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      08-27-2012, 10:16 PM   #33
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Just a bit of info based on working in Mfg and supplying parts & sevcies to the machine tool and automotive industry.

TRW is well known for automotive parts. It is a very good brand. I believe Dack is correct but to be more precise. TRW probably has two specs; 1) for BMW 2) for OEM, so the OEM parts are not necessarily out of spec. The specs are just tighter for the major client (BMW) which costs more to produce and less stringent for the other clients in order to lower the price. We do the same with our Mfg in order to serve two segments of the market. High quality and price conscious. GL

Just my $0.02.
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      08-27-2012, 10:32 PM   #34
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So... We may not necessarily be getting M quality if we buy trw? That's a shame - this was looking good for a few days!
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      08-27-2012, 10:39 PM   #35
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With oembimmer and ecs both saying they're identical parts even for quality, i'm not personally worried in this case

The price isn't necessarily much lower either, most of the markup from $8x OEM to $12x OEBMW would be from TRW>*BMW*>Vendor instead of TRW>Vendor

We all should know how much extra bmw likes to charge for OE parts that are identical to ones in other areas
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      08-27-2012, 10:47 PM   #36
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Let us know how it all goes with the parts and all flinchy
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      08-27-2012, 11:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkatron View Post
Let us know how it all goes with the parts and all flinchy
will do

assuming it all fits well (pics will be posted of the items close up etc.) there's not much i can do to confirm it's 100% the same strength etc. as OEBMW stuf

though i had another idea, maybe if i email TRW with queries about it, they can clear up whether it's factory seconds or not?

will update with that next lol.

ED: no email for USA, anyone willing to give them a call about it? i'lll shoot an email off to TRW germany as the next best bet i guess.

http://www.trwaftermarket.com/en/Contact-Us/

I just sent
Quote:
Hello, I just have a couple of questions about TRW parts

Firstly, I understand that TRW is an OEM for various vehicle manufacturers, and my particular query has to do with some BMW parts

The part(s) in question are
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283577/ES48830/

and

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/31102283577/ES2581398/

The first part is as sold by BMW, a TRW OEM resold part, as far as i'm to understand
The second is sold directly from TRW, identical parts, but not BMW resold
Both are PN# 31102283577 - Front Left control arm for a E90/92/93 BMW M3

The question i have is, would there be a quality difference between purchasing OE BMW parts and purchasing OEM from TRW, do the parts made for BMW specifically have any tighter manufacturing processes or tolerances, are they (the 'Genuine BMW' parts) in any way superior to the OEM TRW parts.

Regards.

Brendan.
to marketing.germany@trw - and i just found cst.uk@trw.com - so i sent it to them too. *waits patiently*

ED: apparently TRW Automotive is 161 on the fortune 500 list :|

Last edited by flinchy; 08-27-2012 at 11:44 PM.
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      08-28-2012, 07:36 AM   #38
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Thanks flinchy for sending out all the numerous emails.

I'm quite exited for this too
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"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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      08-28-2012, 09:42 AM   #39
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Also... hate to be a stickler, but there are no upper control arms in front... It's mcpherson strut... only has lower control arms.
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      08-28-2012, 12:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
Also... hate to be a stickler, but there are no upper control arms in front... It's mcpherson strut... only has lower control arms.
so any M3 conversion kit will consist of lower control arms & wishbones?
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128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: e46 m3 trans mnt, e36M lip Wishlist: m3 susp, n55 eng mnt, headers, LSD, finn dif e60


"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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      08-28-2012, 12:48 PM   #41
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Front is McPherson Strut... so the conversion consists of 2 lower control arms (aka wishbone... but not really a true wishbone, because they move separately) and headlight rod. You can also do the sway bar as well. Adjustable endlinks aren't needed until the car is lowered.

Rear is Multi-Link... so the conversion consists of 1 lower control arm, guide rod, and upper link. You can also do the sway bar and an adjustable toe control arm.

It's important to note that the rear conversion requires the type of shock that will connect to the lower control arm. This is much different that stock.
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      08-28-2012, 01:01 PM   #42
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This is what I bought (M3 front control arm kit; lower wishbone arms (2) and front control arm (2) & headlight adjustment rod. Here is a snap shot:

Name:  M3 front control arm kit.jpg
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      08-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
Also... hate to be a stickler, but there are no upper control arms in front... It's mcpherson strut... only has lower control arms.
the 'upper control arm' is more correctly called the tension rod
and yes it's 'upper'

http://imbmparts.com/site/wp-content...7/DSC_1305.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
Front is McPherson Strut... so the conversion consists of 2 lower control arms (aka wishbone... but not really a true wishbone, because they move separately) and headlight rod. You can also do the sway bar as well. Adjustable endlinks aren't needed until the car is lowered.

Rear is Multi-Link... so the conversion consists of 1 lower control arm, guide rod, and upper link. You can also do the sway bar and an adjustable toe control arm.

It's important to note that the rear conversion requires the type of shock that will connect to the lower control arm. This is much different that stock.
correction, it consists of the lower control arms (2), headlight rod, and tension rods (2)

can you provide more links/pics to the rear conversion? i'm assuming it also requires some pretty hefty modification?

ED: ok so "rear camber links" are the offending part, and installing these lets you run ACTUAL M3 coilovers/shock/spring combos? even for the front (which i'm guessing match up exactly like stock?)

Last edited by flinchy; 08-28-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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      08-28-2012, 06:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
the 'upper control arm' is more correctly called the tension rod
and yes it's 'upper'

http://imbmparts.com/site/wp-content...7/DSC_1305.jpg


correction, it consists of the lower control arms (2), headlight rod, and tension rods (2)

can you provide more links/pics to the rear conversion? i'm assuming it also requires some pretty hefty modification?

ED: ok so "rear camber links" are the offending part, and installing these lets you run ACTUAL M3 coilovers/shock/spring combos? even for the front (which i'm guessing match up exactly like stock?)
Front:

Yes, I guess it can be considered "upper" because it is on top of the tie rod end. The tension rod keeps the upright rotating around the same pivot point. The steering tie rods push and pull the upright back and forth around this pivot point. The control arm keeps the upright/strut movement up and down on the correct plane.

The front control arms are a direct bolt on that you can use with the stock struts. Replacement coilovers would be a stock replacement. Obviously you can change top-hat configurations to run linear springs (some aftermarket, same stiffness through the whole spring travel) vs. progressive (like stock or KW V1/V2, stiffness increases as spring travel increases).

Great post by Berk: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=340647

Here is what you would need to do the full conversion on the front:

http://hpashop.com/BMW-E82-90-92-93-...ms-e82-e9x.htm

http://hpashop.com/BMW-OEM-M3-Front-...bar-e9x-m3.htm

Rear:

The rear suspension is quite complicated. Multi-link (which is similar to double wishbone) changes dynamically to more negative camber as the suspension travels upwards, where the front does not.

Installing the rear M3 camber link allows you to run shocks with the M3 bottom (this is different than the bottom of a shock for the stock 135i). Top of the shock and spring is the same.

Good rear bushing DIY: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ht=control+arm

Here are diagrams of the rear suspension: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...62&hg=33&fg=30

Here is what you would need to do the full rear conversion:

http://hpashop.com/BMW-OEM-M3-Rear-L...ink-e9x-m3.htm

http://hpashop.com/BMW-OEM-M3-Rear-A...bar-e9x-m3.htm

http://hpashop.com/BMW-Rear-Upper-Li...r-link-kit.htm

http://hpashop.com/BMW-Rear-Guide-Ro...kit-e9x-m3.htm

http://hpashop.com/HP-Autowerks-E8x-...2-e9x-nonM.htm

http://hpashop.com/BMW-Rear-Subframe...e-bushings.htm
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