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      09-20-2012, 07:51 AM   #1
Dr_zito
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Tires for track day

Hi.
I will be in a track day here in South America on Monday and did not want to use the "normal" tires that came with the car 265-35-19, being the car 1 month old.
Instead I have an extra set of 245-35-19 (same as front tires) and was wondering what would happen to the car if I put these tires in the back, so I would have 4 tires same size: 245-35-19...
Can I damage the car?
Do I need to do something to the DTM button in the center console?

Excuse my "beginner" question, but I am sure you know more than I do.
Thanks!
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      09-20-2012, 07:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_zito View Post
Hi.
I will be in a track day here in South America on Monday and did not want to use the "normal" tires that came with the car 265-35-19, being the car 1 month old.
Instead I have an extra set of 245-35-19 (same as front tires) and was wondering what would happen to the car if I put these tires in the back, so I would have 4 tires same size: 245-35-19...
Can I damage the car?
Do I need to do something to the DTM button in the center console?

Excuse my "beginner" question, but I am sure you know more than I do.
Thanks!
For a starter, you won't have enough traction to stay safely on the track. Another detail, the 245/35R19 needs a min. 8 to max. 9.5 inch wide wheels to fit whereas your stock rear wheels are 10 inch wide, so you have more rim than tire, assuming you plan to do this with your stock wheels.
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      09-20-2012, 09:25 AM   #3
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For ther rears, I wouldn't go with anything less than a 275 width. I'm currently running a square setup, but agree with Harold at HP that a staggered setup is the way to go.
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      09-20-2012, 11:52 AM   #4
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I don't recommend mismatching the tire sizes like this. Use your stock setup and then you can get some Pilot Super Sports much sooner!
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      09-20-2012, 02:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Parker View Post
I don't recommend mismatching the tire sizes like this. Use your stock setup and then you can get some Pilot Super Sports much sooner!
+1. Track days arent as bad as you can be on them! I've had much worse tire wear from beating around an autox on a really poor surface all day

Excuse my noob question but I hope with 1 month owning the car you are past run in and have had the proper fluids changed already?!
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      09-20-2012, 11:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken99;
+1. Track days arent as bad as you can be on them! I've had much worse tire wear from beating around an autox on a really poor surface all day
Obviously you're not driving hard enough. The camber range on the stock suspension isn't adequate.
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      09-20-2012, 11:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Parker View Post
I don't recommend mismatching the tire sizes like this. Use your stock setup and then you can get some Pilot Super Sports much sooner!
+1. Track days arent as bad as you can be on them! I've had much worse tire wear from beating around an autox on a really poor surface all day

Excuse my noob question but I hope with 1 month owning the car you are past run in and have had the proper fluids changed already?!
Hi.
I have not changed anything... Must I?
The manual states speed and rpm that I must follow for break in period and I doing that...and service is indicated at 10.000 miles now...what shall I do? Any clues why it is not indicated in the manual?
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      09-21-2012, 05:10 AM   #8
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You HAVE to get the car back to bmw between 1100-1200 miles if you havent already,
i wouldnt do a track day until after the running in service.
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      09-21-2012, 05:46 AM   #9
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Thank you octainejunkee...I have done a search in the forum and in the manuals and web and canīt see where it states that I must return at 1100-1200 miles..my car instruments state service check at 12,000 (which is about 7400 miles)...
Here is a post with conflicting versions from Canada
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=537083
but a copy of the manual stating what needs to be done at around 2000km...
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      09-21-2012, 05:55 AM   #10
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Trust me everyone on here will be able to confirm that you must get a running in service done at 1200 miles.
The BMW dealer should have told you as its essential.

From memory the diff, engine and maybe the gearbox oils are fitted with specific running in oil that must be replaced by a maximum of 1200miles.
The rear diff has 1M only oil so its worth notifying the dealership a week in advance so they can order it in for you.
Im sure if you do a search there is alot of info on here that will confirm it.

cheers jamie


"Awaits a hundred people confirming the above" lol
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      09-21-2012, 08:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octainejunkee View Post
Trust me everyone on here will be able to confirm that you must get a running in service done at 1200 miles.
The BMW dealer should have told you as its essential.

From memory the diff, engine and maybe the gearbox oils are fitted with specific running in oil that must be replaced by a maximum of 1200miles.
The rear diff has 1M only oil so its worth notifying the dealership a week in advance so they can order it in for you.
Im sure if you do a search there is alot of info on here that will confirm it.

cheers jamie


"Awaits a hundred people confirming the above" lol
SMH.... Theres no "special 1M specific oil"....

Its the same oil as used in the M3. Problem is some techs didnt realize this at first and thought regular oil was to be used.

A BETTER place to start would be to look at the stickys at the top of this forum!

For ex.... http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620282 is a thread started by Metak and has been there for a LONG time. Go read it, and make sure those are the ONLY fluids they put in!

Can you drive your car past the 1200 mile (2000km) mark without service until you have the time to get it performed? Yes.
Should you beat on your car or take your car to a track past the 1200 mile mark without service? NO!!!

For the love of god please dont take your baby ///M to the track without having this service done
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      09-21-2012, 08:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octainejunkee View Post
Trust me everyone on here will be able to confirm that you must get a running in service done at 1200 miles.
The BMW dealer should have told you as its essential.

From memory the diff, engine and maybe the gearbox oils are fitted with specific running in oil that must be replaced by a maximum of 1200miles.
The rear diff has 1M only oil so its worth notifying the dealership a week in advance so they can order it in for you.
Im sure if you do a search there is alot of info on here that will confirm it.

cheers jamie


"Awaits a hundred people confirming the above" lol
Totally true, OP you need to check the Sticky section of this Forum, you will find a "correct oils" thread. By the way, you should have 1M supplementary manual, a smaller size manual with specific info on the 1M. There, it is clearly stated that our cars need a 1200mile/2000km first oil service regardless of market/country. We all passed through fighting with our dealers and finally training them on this, sometimes after having wrong oils in our cars and repeating the whole procedure; so you may have some discussions ahead of you. Good luck.
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      09-21-2012, 08:25 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post
Obviously you're not driving hard enough. The camber range on the stock suspension isn't adequate.
SMH I've been told this before however I disagree..... I'm driving fast and at the edge of the factory PS2's (with not a whole lot of tread left) grip limits. I know the car can run faster, but I dont have the confidence for the tires to handle that speed. (personally very disappointed with the factory tires) Its also the reason my winter proj. is to save up for a set of Apex wheels and sticky icky tires for the track!


What I meant to say was Ive (at least for the crappy surface we hold autox on) seen much more tire damage/excessive wear from 12 autox runs than I have from a single HPDE day.
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      09-21-2012, 11:09 AM   #14
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Jamie, Ozinaldo thanks.
I went into the BMW dealer and the guy said..."no, you do not need anything unless it is indicated in the panel". Then I came to the computer, downloaded the information, papers on the forum, called 2 other repair services and they all said the same....service at 2000KM for ALL M-cars.

I called again, asked for the manager and he said "Sorry, the guy that spoke to you was not aware of this since the 1M is new here"
Unfu..ing believable
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      09-21-2012, 11:21 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Dr_zito View Post
Jamie, Ozinaldo thanks.
I went into the BMW dealer and the guy said..."no, you do not need anything unless it is indicated in the panel". Then I came to the computer, downloaded the information, papers on the forum, called 2 other repair services and they all said the same....service at 2000KM for ALL M-cars.

I called again, asked for the manager and he said "Sorry, the guy that spoke to you was not aware of this since the 1M is new here"
Unfu..ing believable
hate to say we told you so!!
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      09-21-2012, 06:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken99 View Post
SMH I've been told this before however I disagree..... I'm driving fast and at the edge of the factory PS2's (with not a whole lot of tread left) grip limits. I know the car can run faster, but I dont have the confidence for the tires to handle that speed. (personally very disappointed with the factory tires) Its also the reason my winter proj. is to save up for a set of Apex wheels and sticky icky tires for the track!


What I meant to say was Ive (at least for the crappy surface we hold autox on) seen much more tire damage/excessive wear from 12 autox runs than I have from a single HPDE day.
I have negative camber maxed out on my fronts and so do many other forum members who go to the track frequently and still have rollover no matter how much pressure is in the tires. To achieve max traction you need close to -2 degrees of camber.

I don't understand the bitching about PS2s. What have you run in the past that was better? The PS2s were the pinnacle all around high performance tire until the introduction of the PSSs.
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      09-21-2012, 06:48 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post
I have negative camber maxed out on my fronts and so do many other forum members who go to the track frequently and still have rollover no matter how much pressure is in the tires. To achieve max traction you need close to -2 degrees of camber.

I don't understand the bitching about PS2s. What have you run in the past that was better? The PS2s were the pinnacle all around high performance tire until the introduction of the PSSs.
They simply dont stick to the ground as well as I'd expect for a $450 "high performance" tire. And to my point, I was driving them hard but noticed many times them slipping earlier/easier than I would have liked.

Putting on flame suit....... can that degree of camber be easily/accurately adjusted with stock hardware or are we talking camber plate territory here? I have not dove into the suspension mods yet. Would it be detrimental to drive around more than just track days with that?
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      10-26-2012, 07:00 PM   #18
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The stock suspension will give you around -1.3 to -1.5 camber at the front. If you're a the track with 100% stock setup you will notice that the outsides of the tires will get overheated. You will probably also suffer from quite a bit of understeer.

The good news is that this can be easily alleviated with a set of camber plates. I highly recommend Vorshlag. I tried the Ground Control plates and they were garbage. They actually broke. With camber plates and stock suspension you will see something approaching -2.3 to -2.7 camber.
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      10-27-2012, 05:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_zito View Post
Jamie, Ozinaldo thanks.
I went into the BMW dealer and the guy said..."no, you do not need anything unless it is indicated in the panel". Then I came to the computer, downloaded the information, papers on the forum, called 2 other repair services and they all said the same....service at 2000KM for ALL M-cars.

I called again, asked for the manager and he said "Sorry, the guy that spoke to you was not aware of this since the 1M is new here"
Unfu..ing believable
Hi ! And yes, you better do that 1st service. It is also essential to keep your factory warranty. Other than that, and contrary to what trackday nuts seem to believe, you can drive your 1M on a racetrack without any modification, other than decreasing tire pressure. After around 20 minutes of serious driving, you will notice a decrease in braking efficiency, which is called "fading". To avoid that braking issue, you should upgrade to a better braking fluid.
Other modifications can be useful if you plan to go on track on a regular base, but will often decrease the everyday usability of your car, and can have an adverse effect on your dealer warranty, so think twice ...
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      10-31-2012, 02:53 PM   #20
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The stock suspension will give you around -1.3 to -1.5 camber at the front. If you're a the track with 100% stock setup you will notice that the outsides of the tires will get overheated. You will probably also suffer from quite a bit of understeer.

The good news is that this can be easily alleviated with a set of camber plates. I highly recommend Vorshlag. I tried the Ground Control plates and they were garbage. They actually broke. With camber plates and stock suspension you will see something approaching -2.3 to -2.7 camber.

What Blue said. On my car -.2.8 was the max at the front. HOW is the car with camber plates ?

I have two friends that drove my 1M (completely stock save Arc-8s with Hankoook RS-3 plus camber plates) and they both said that my car is AWESOME. They also said my car is WAY faster than their car on track..

The catch....? what is their car you ask? They both own and drive a 1M.
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      10-31-2012, 03:00 PM   #21
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What Blue said. On my car -.2.8 was the max at the front. HOW is the car with camber plates ?
The camber plates result in a MASSIVE reduction in understeer. On the other hand, since the front sticks better in most corners, you've got to be a lot more cognizant of the rear since you'll likely be carrying more speed. The car likes to oversteer in high speed corners so you've got be ready to catch it very quickly.
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      10-31-2012, 03:05 PM   #22
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The camber plates result in a MASSIVE reduction in understeer. On the other hand, since the front sticks better in most corners, you've got to be a lot more cognizant of the rear since you'll likely be carrying more speed. The car likes to oversteer in high speed corners so you've got be ready to catch it very quickly.
Very good observation!

A third friend of mine drove my car (not the other two that also own 1Ms) recently drove my car after the camber plates and felt it was too much grip at the front and said it was making the car tend to oversteer.

I don't recall it being BAD.. but I do recall noting for a few events that I needed to slow my hands down when dialing in steering since the car does turn in so much better with the camber plates. I never felt that it made the handling worse.... and as previously mentioned.. when two other owners tell you how much better your car is than theirs (and they own the SAME CAR)... well then I would say it's well worth the trade off in my opinion.
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