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      09-17-2012, 09:02 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Mahlzeit View Post
So they fit? Any rubbing??
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      10-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #68
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Nevermind,...

Last edited by Mahlzeit; 10-03-2012 at 08:56 AM.
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      10-25-2012, 07:53 AM   #69
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Guys,

After 9,000 km of proper road use, my PS2s are gone and I want to replace them for the obvious PSSs too. However, here in Dubai, no 265/35 PSS exist, so I'm thinking about the standard size 245/35 PSS front and 275/35 rear.

Would that work on a standard car in terms of suspension and rims? Has anybody tried this rather conservative set-up? No rubbing to be expected?

Yeah, no changes to mine but the lovely Akrapovic... ;-)

Thanks,
Tom.
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      10-25-2012, 08:48 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomTom///M View Post
Guys,

After 9,000 km of proper road use, my PS2s are gone and I want to replace them for the obvious PSSs too. However, here in Dubai, no 265/35 PSS exist, so I'm thinking about the standard size 245/35 PSS front and 275/35 rear.

Would that work on a standard car in terms of suspension and rims? Has anybody tried this rather conservative set-up? No rubbing to be expected?

Yeah, no changes to mine but the lovely Akrapovic... ;-)

Thanks,
Tom.
I am not able to reply your PM, since system says you can't receive them or a visitor message, so here is my reply to your PM concerning PSS:

Hi,

PSS are somehow slightly chunkier than equal size most other tires including PS2 so yes compared to stock tires my passenger side front tire actually touches the liner at full lock but I am not able to notice it even at full lock in parking speeds at the steering wheel. So, no need to worry about that.

I am stock size at the rear too. PSS has way more grip than PS2 and I felt more comfortable with going stock sizes and am happy with my choice. A 275/35 19 tire is 0.3 inches bigger diameter (taller) compared to stock 265s but there seems to be enough space to clear that at the rear plus it will look better since it will fill the wheel gap almost completely. Unless you put two heavy people at the back of the car and try to pass a speed bump I doubt you will have any rubbing or so.

On the other hand, I also doubt there will be any noticeable difference/advantage in terms of traction, handling etc. between 265 or 275 PSS tires. If I go wider at the rear in the future I will try max possible without creating any problems for stock wheels and suspension. That is a 295/30 19 which will fit perfectly and then you have really more tire contacting the road. I am not decided on this yet, happy with stock size PSS set for now.

Hope this helps.

Oz

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomTom///M
Hey,

Saw your message on the forum that you're running 245/35s front on your 1M and they 'almost' rub. What are you running on the back?

I want to get PSSs on my 1M as a replacement of the PS2s and am (due to availability) forced to do the following:
- front: standard size, 245/35/19
- rear: 1 size bigger, 275/35/19

What do you think?

Here in Dubai no dealer or tire fitter is able or willing to make a statement on it...

Thanks,
Tom.
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      10-25-2012, 03:37 PM   #71
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Hi Tom, hi OZ ! A friend of mine, let's call him "R", runs PSS's on his 1M, front and rears. He's one size more than stock: 255/35/19 and 275/35/19. No rubbing at the rear ! No issues at all, just more grip.
But... I wouldn't recommend increasing the aft size much more, if you don't increase the front size as well.
Let us imagine you put 245/35 in front and 295/30 aft. Aft grip is increased, so you get better traction when accelerating. Forward grip is not increased, so you get understeer the rest of the time, altering the balance of the car...
So I think it's nice for the looks, but bad for the driving !!

Last edited by LotusBoy; 10-25-2012 at 03:49 PM. Reason: clarification
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      10-25-2012, 06:38 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBoy View Post
Hi Tom, hi OZ ! A friend of mine, let's call him "R", runs PSS's on his 1M, front and rears. He's one size more than stock: 255/35/19 and 275/35/19. No rubbing at the rear ! No issues at all, just more grip.
But... I wouldn't recommend increasing the aft size much more, if you don't increase the front size as well.
Let us imagine you put 245/35 in front and 295/30 aft. Aft grip is increased, so you get better traction when accelerating. Forward grip is not increased, so you get understeer the rest of the time, altering the balance of the car...
So I think it's nice for the looks, but bad for the driving !!
You are right there LotusBoy, I am aware of the principle. Still I believe in the case of 1M it might be less pronounced since the PSS extra grip should help the fronts as well and because the car's rear will be more settled and predictable it might not end with that bad understeer. I feel like M3 and 1M are quite different cars in terms of their power delivery and traction characteristics so 1M needs wider and stickier tires at the rear vs a stock M3 imo.

In fact I am contacting a few 1M and M3 owners who keep the fronts stock while getting wider at the rear like 295s and they all seem to be happy with the result so I may give it a try and if I feel that it is not working, not a big issue for me since I keep the stock PS2 set almost unused, as my reserve and I can use them if and when needed and just sell the wider new rears in the market.

Still again, the reason why I am not decided yet on this is simple; I am quite happy with the stock sizes since the added grip of PSS is more than enough for me..for now.

In fact, if we go with the book, I could go and try 275/30 19 front and 295/30 19 rear set which would be perfectly proportional upgrade and if 255/35 can fit at the front so should 275/30. I assume there won't be a hint of understeer with that one but will the car react as agile as it is now?
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      10-26-2012, 01:51 AM   #73
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Hey Oz, LotusBoy,

Thanks for your messages. The main reason that I am considering changing the rears from a 265/35 to a 275/35 is that there are no 265/35 PSSs available in Dubai, it's not a size they're carrying in their catalogue.

So, for the upcoming full tire change, it's either:
- replace with stock size PS2s (okay, but there's better out there, isn't it?)
- replace with PSS 245/35/19 front and 275/35/19 rear
- replace with stock size Pilelli P Zeros (not really tempted)
- replace with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup+ in stock sizes
Am not a fan of moving towards 2xx/30s because of the looks in wheel arches, personally.

Nobody said it was easy, right?

Cheers,
Tom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
You are right there LotusBoy, I am aware of the principle. Still I believe in the case of 1M it might be less pronounced since the PSS extra grip should help the fronts as well and because the car's rear will be more settled and predictable it might not end with that bad understeer. I feel like M3 and 1M are quite different cars in terms of their power delivery and traction characteristics so 1M needs wider and stickier tires at the rear vs a stock M3 imo.

In fact I am contacting a few 1M and M3 owners who keep the fronts stock while getting wider at the rear like 295s and they all seem to be happy with the result so I may give it a try and if I feel that it is not working, not a big issue for me since I keep the stock PS2 set almost unused, as my reserve and I can use them if and when needed and just sell the wider new rears in the market.

Still again, the reason why I am not decided yet on this is simple; I am quite happy with the stock sizes since the added grip of PSS is more than enough for me..for now.

In fact, if we go with the book, I could go and try 275/30 19 front and 295/30 19 rear set which would be perfectly proportional upgrade and if 255/35 can fit at the front so should 275/30. I assume there won't be a hint of understeer with that one but will the car react as agile as it is now?

Last edited by TomTom///M; 10-26-2012 at 02:01 AM.
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      10-26-2012, 02:02 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBoy View Post
Hi Tom, hi OZ ! A friend of mine, let's call him "R", runs PSS's on his 1M, front and rears. He's one size more than stock: 255/35/19 and 275/35/19. No rubbing at the rear ! No issues at all, just more grip.
But... I wouldn't recommend increasing the aft size much more, if you don't increase the front size as well.
Let us imagine you put 245/35 in front and 295/30 aft. Aft grip is increased, so you get better traction when accelerating. Forward grip is not increased, so you get understeer the rest of the time, altering the balance of the car...
So I think it's nice for the looks, but bad for the driving !!
Clear, that helps! You've helped me to make my decision final, thanks!
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      10-26-2012, 05:26 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomTom///M View Post
Guys,

After 9,000 km of proper road use, my PS2s are gone and I want to replace them for the obvious PSSs too. However, here in Dubai, no 265/35 PSS exist, so I'm thinking about the standard size 245/35 PSS front and 275/35 rear.

Would that work on a standard car in terms of suspension and rims? Has anybody tried this rather conservative set-up? No rubbing to be expected?

Yeah, no changes to mine but the lovely Akrapovic... ;-)

Thanks,
Tom.
Just curious as to how the heck you burned thru in only 9k. I have 6k Miles with two track days and hardly measurable wear even at the rear (and I turned of everything for most of and autocross with 5 runs and lots of smoke!)
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      10-26-2012, 05:44 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBoy View Post
Hi Tom, hi OZ ! A friend of mine, let's call him "R", runs PSS's on his 1M, front and rears. He's one size more than stock: 255/35/19 and 275/35/19. No rubbing at the rear ! No issues at all, just more grip.
But... I wouldn't recommend increasing the aft size much more, if you don't increase the front size as well.
Let us imagine you put 245/35 in front and 295/30 aft. Aft grip is increased, so you get better traction when accelerating. Forward grip is not increased, so you get understeer the rest of the time, altering the balance of the car...
So I think it's nice for the looks, but bad for the driving !!
What is the effect on the speedo with going to these sizes? Does it knock the accuracy out by much?

I can get stock size PSS here in the UK or the sizes you mention above, but I'm not sure which to choose....
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      10-26-2012, 06:59 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBuer View Post
What is the effect on the speedo with going to these sizes? Does it knock the accuracy out by much?

I can get stock size PSS here in the UK or the sizes you mention above, but I'm not sure which to choose....
Hello Chris, if you increase by one size front and back (+10mm), the total diameter of your front wheels (the ones used for the speedo) will increase from 654,1mm to 661,1mm. This is an increase of only 1%, that will reflect on your real speed for a given speedo reading, which is minimal. Knowing that speedo reading, on a stock car, shows more than the actual speed by about 5%, you'd still be safe for speed traps /speed guns /police radars a and so on !!

PS: this being said, I'd personally choose for stock size, as PSS's are already much more grippy than PS2's.
This will also eliminate any rubbing risk at the front: just had "R" on the phone, and he said his 255/35/19 DO RUB slightly in front, with stock wheels. He'll go back to stock size in front: 245/35/19, but considers 285/30/19 aft ...

Last edited by LotusBoy; 10-26-2012 at 08:36 AM. Reason: updated PS
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      10-26-2012, 09:55 AM   #78
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I've got 500 miles on a set of stock sized PSS on my 100% stock 1M. It took me 7500 miles to get down to the PS2s wear markers and replaced the set at 8000 miles. That should give u an indication of my driving style.

When going to the new set it was important to me to not decrease tire profile and presumably impacting ride quality and to leave turn-in as direct as possible.

Turn-in:
Not as direct. I knew going into my decision that the PSS had superior grip at a cost of turn in crispness. Years ago I swapped sticky wider tires on onto one my cars, and lost all the turnin sharpness and feel and gained buckets of grip. Ultimately there was so much squish that street driving become annoying. Defn wanted to avoid this scenario. So stuck with stock width. As a result there is a loss of directness and during turn in there is a tiny transition to actual turning. Once turned the car just friggin hooks and grips. The gain in grip far exceeds the loss in feel.

Comfort:
Its nicer. Not by massive amounts, but the tires did seem to take a bit of edge off of expansion joints. Glad to have gained a bit of comfort.

Looks:
Rears look much less stretched than stock. PSS seem to have a more beefy shoulder and blockier fit then PS2. Nice surprise. Fronts still look streched, about same as stock.

I am extremely happy with the gain in traction, grip and comfort in dry and wet. Love these tires,... You'lll get plenty of performance with stock sizes. Perhaps a tune and N55 mids will have me rethinking the rear widths....

Good luck with your decisions!
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      10-26-2012, 10:04 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahlzeit View Post
I've got 500 miles on a set of stock sized PSS on my 100% stock 1M. It took me 7500 miles to get down to the PS2s wear markers and replaced the set at 8000 miles. That should give u an indication of my driving style.

When going to the new set it was important to me to not decrease tire profile and presumably impacting ride quality and to leave turn-in as direct as possible.

Turn-in:
Not as direct. I knew going into my decision that the PSS had superior grip at a cost of turn in crispness. Years ago I swapped sticky wider tires on onto one my cars, and lost all the turnin sharpness and feel and gained buckets of grip. Ultimately there was so much squish that street driving become annoying. Defn wanted to avoid this scenario. So stuck with stock width. As a result there is a loss of directness and during turn in there is a tiny transition to actual turning. Once turned the car just friggin hooks and grips. The gain in grip far exceeds the loss in feel.

Comfort:
Its nicer. Not by massive amounts, but the tires did seem to take a bit of edge off of expansion joints. Glad to have gained a bit of comfort.

Looks:
Rears look much less stretched than stock. PSS seem to have a more beefy shoulder and blockier fit then PS2. Nice surprise. Fronts still look streched, about same as stock.

I am extremely happy with the gain in traction, grip and comfort in dry and wet. Love these tires,... You'lll get plenty of performance with stock sizes. Perhaps a tune and N55 mids will have me rethinking the rear widths....

Good luck with your decisions!
After 3000 kms. on stock sized PSS on a stock car as well, I can totally second these impressions
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      10-30-2012, 12:13 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Em/1 View Post
Just curious as to how the heck you burned thru in only 9k. I have 6k Miles with two track days and hardly measurable wear even at the rear (and I turned of everything for most of and autocross with 5 runs and lots of smoke!)
Good question. Took a lot of 'inspired' half-day drives into the mountains nearby with rough tarmac and high (Dubai summer) temperatures, that might be one of the reasons.

Otherwise, I wouldn't know... haven't even managed to spend time on the track with it.
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      10-30-2012, 12:25 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
After 3000 kms. on stock sized PSS on a stock car as well, I can totally second these impressions
Thanks, guys!

I'll arrange the PSS 245/35/19 at the front and 275/35/19 for the rears as soon as I'm back home... with the current (slick) state of the PS2, I'm sure it'll be great!

Will keep you posted!
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      10-30-2012, 06:58 AM   #82
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      10-30-2012, 01:46 PM   #83
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The BMW logo misses into the circle
You're right about the logo. Nice picture, though !
Tom: I think you made the perfect choice if you want more grip. Keep us updated ...
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      11-01-2012, 07:23 AM   #84
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Aaaaaaargh! Nobody said it was easy, right... here it goes!

The PSSs that I wanted (245/35 and 275/25) are not recommended by one of the most reputable (motorsport) tyre dealers in Dubai due to radius differences that might give speed and diff sensor issues? I haven't read that on the forum? And 265/35 stock size for the rears is not available in the PSSs in Dubai.

I did find Cup+'s in the right sizes. Slightly more expensive, but that doesn't bother me. What are your experiences with these, as compared to the PSSs? This is what I've seen / read as compared to the PSSs:
- PSS last a bit longer (doesn't bother me)
- PSS are cheaper (same)
- Cup+ have even more grip in the dry (me likey)
- Cup+ have a lot less grip in the rain (no problem, since it never rains here)
I don't use the 1M are a daily driver, so all the driving is fun and spirited. I try to do the occasional track day at Yas or the Autodrome too.

Thoughts?
1. Cup+s, just because I can... ;-)
2. PSS in 245/35 and 275/35
3. Back to PS2 OEMs

Thanks,
Tom.
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      11-01-2012, 11:02 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomTom///M View Post
Aaaaaaargh! Nobody said it was easy, right... here it goes!

The PSSs that I wanted (245/35 and 275/25) are not recommended by one of the most reputable (motorsport) tyre dealers in Dubai due to radius differences that might give speed and diff sensor issues? I haven't read that on the forum? And 265/35 stock size for the rears is not available in the PSSs in Dubai.

I did find Cup+'s in the right sizes. Slightly more expensive, but that doesn't bother me. What are your experiences with these, as compared to the PSSs? This is what I've seen / read as compared to the PSSs:
- PSS last a bit longer (doesn't bother me)
- PSS are cheaper (same)
- Cup+ have even more grip in the dry (me likey)
- Cup+ have a lot less grip in the rain (no problem, since it never rains here)
I don't use the 1M are a daily driver, so all the driving is fun and spirited. I try to do the occasional track day at Yas or the Autodrome too.

Thoughts?
1. Cup+s, just because I can... ;-)
2. PSS in 245/35 and 275/35
3. Back to PS2 OEMs

Thanks,
Tom.
You wanted 275/25 you say? When did you mention this size before, all I see in your posts were 275/35 and of course a 275/25 would be absurd to put at the rear, especially with fronts at stock size 245/35!

Another thing; where did you even find a 275/25, there are no 25 profile PSS for 275 wide tires, not for 18 or 19 inches. Why would you even want that kind of tire at the back?

Since this is just a fun car for you and never rains over there, just try the track tires imo.
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Last edited by ozinaldo; 11-01-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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      11-01-2012, 04:15 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
You wanted 275/25 you say? When did you mention this size before, all I see in your posts were 275/35 and of course a 275/25 would be absurd to put at the rear, especially with fronts at stock size 245/35!

Another thing; where did you even find a 275/25, there are no 25 profile PSS for 275 wide tires, not for 18 or 19 inches. Why would you even want that kind of tire at the back?

Since this is just a fun car for you and never rains over there, just try the track tires imo.
Oops, my mistake / typo, obviously I meant 275/35, not 275/25.
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      11-01-2012, 06:12 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomTom///M View Post
Oops, my mistake / typo, obviously I meant 275/35, not 275/25.
OK, then your reputable tire guy is a bit off to say the least since you will not have any issues with the car's speed sensors or else just because you choose 1 size more from stock size. Going from 265 to 275 your tire diameter will increase from 26.3 inches to 26.6, a 0.3 inch increase (taller tire) which corresponds a bit over 1 %, that's it. Your stock tire makes 790 revs per mile while a 275/35 will make 783. These are not big enough deltas to give your car's electronics any issues and you won't be able to notice the speedometer difference which already reads around 3 to 5 % over actual speed anyway, like most cars. So with 275/35 you will see 160 km/h while you will be doing 155 and with stock tires you would read 158 or 159 and not 160! There are no other "problems" you could have with just 1 size larger rear tire.

Lots of guys here are with 275 to even 315 rears on stock wheels with 0 issues.

So, if you want them ignore that guy and just buy the PSS. Otherwise, just try the track tires since you don't care the downsides of those in Dubai conditions.
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      11-01-2012, 07:09 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
OK, then your reputable tire guy is a bit off to say the least since you will not have any issues with the car's speed sensors or else just because you choose 1 size more from stock size. Going from 265 to 275 your tire diameter will increase from 26.3 inches to 26.6, a 0.3 inch increase (taller tire) which corresponds a bit over 1 %, that's it. Your stock tire makes 790 revs per mile while a 275/35 will make 783. These are not big enough deltas to give your car's electronics any issues and you won't be able to notice the speedometer difference which already reads around 3 to 5 % over actual speed anyway, like most cars. So with 275/35 you will see 160 km/h while you will be doing 155 and with stock tires you would read 158 or 159 and not 160! There are no other "problems" you could have with just 1 size larger rear tire.

Lots of guys here are with 275 to even 315 rears on stock wheels with 0 issues.

So, if you want them ignore that guy and just buy the PSS. Otherwise, just try the track tires since you don't care the downsides of those in Dubai conditions.
Thanks Ozinaldo!

I already got the feeling my 'reputable' tire guy was slighly stronger commercially (because he only had the Cup-tires available) than mechanically and you certainly confirmed the latter.

I'll go for the PSSs, since (virtually) everybody out here loves them. Will get them fitted on Saturday, will let you know!
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