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      11-16-2012, 09:21 AM   #1
str8shot
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Too much camber? Tires wearing funny...

These tires were semi-new when I bought the car back in April. I'm not sure how many miles they had on them, but they looked nearly new.

I've put roughly 10k miles on them over the summer.

As you can see the inner tire is wearing extremely fast.

The toe is fine on the alignment, but it might be running too much camber.

The cars got Vorschlag camber plates - can I just bump out a tick mark on the plate towards the positive side without effecting any other settings (toe / caster)?

Should I adjust my pressures?

The rest of the tire looks pretty good, so I'd like to stretch another summer out of them if I can. I don't want to replace them with two like tires, because I'd like to move to Star Specs after next season.







Any suggestions are appreciated.

The car is lowered pretty good. Going in the garage for winter just as soon as the snow falls, but I'd like to take care of it now.
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      11-16-2012, 09:28 AM   #2
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Drive harder or dial in some more positive camber.
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      11-16-2012, 04:33 PM   #3
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Take some camber out if this is just happening from everyday driving. If tracking the car lower pressures
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      11-16-2012, 07:13 PM   #4
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Definitely needs less camber. Also looks like more air would help.
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      11-17-2012, 12:43 PM   #5
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Your toe is out of spec. Get a real alignment and either zero it (can make the car track ruts in the road) or slightly in.

Cupping almost always is toe. I ran -2.5 for years on my other car with zero toe and no weird wear.
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      11-19-2012, 09:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmonet View Post
Your toe is out of spec. Get a real alignment and either zero it (can make the car track ruts in the road) or slightly in.

Cupping almost always is toe. I ran -2.5 for years on my other car with zero toe and no weird wear.
I'll have to check the alignment printout, but I'm pretty sure toe is right on.

It tracks fine.

Does anyone know what 1 tick mark on the vorschlag camber plate equals in actual camber? I'm thinking of pushing them out one tic.

Also, will that effect toe at all? I can't see how it would.
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      11-19-2012, 05:15 PM   #7
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Camber plates will only be so accurate, so it would really need to go on an alignment rack to be accurate....but with camber you can choose better handling and worse tire wear with more camber, or under steer and even wear
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      11-20-2012, 01:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRedman45 View Post
Camber plates will only be so accurate, so it would really need to go on an alignment rack to be accurate....but with camber you can choose better handling and worse tire wear with more camber, or under steer and even wear
That's not correct. What is the point of camber? It is so that the tire is flat on the ground more of the time i.e: cornering, with that wear it is clearly not the case. Being on the inside edge too much is just as bad as being on the outside. Getting the alignment dialed in shouldn't result in any decrease in handling.
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      11-20-2012, 01:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauce View Post
What is the point of camber? It is so that the tire is flat on the ground more of the time i.e: cornering,.
you are confusing static and dynamic camber....you run more negative camber because the dynamic effect is more positive during cornering, which is why you add more negative camber so you have more tire contact in corners. The side effect is that the neutral position(staright forward) you have less contact on the outside sidewall and more on the inside wall

If you were to get aligned with a more camber setting closer to 0* from say -2.5* then during cornering with the 0* the dynamic camber would be closer to +1-1.5* and roll over the outside side wall...that is why the 135 understeers stock. The 0* camber setting will wear more evenly during normal driving and handle worse than the 2.5*
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      11-20-2012, 02:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRedman45 View Post
you are confusing static and dynamic camber....you run more negative camber because the dynamic effect is more positive during cornering, which is why you add more negative camber so you have more tire contact in corners. The side effect is that the neutral position(staright forward) you have less contact on the outside sidewall and more on the inside wall

If you were to get aligned with a more camber setting closer to 0* from say -2.5* then during cornering with the 0* the dynamic camber would be closer to +1-1.5* and roll over the outside side wall...that is why the 135 understeers stock. The 0* camber setting will wear more evenly during normal driving and handle worse than the 2.5*
Ah ok, I somewhat simplified what I said earlier. But I am not big on the whole static/dynamic camber thing (not that this is even relevant), but if you ask me, the only time your car is truly static is when it is not moving. No movement means no tire wear so it's not really relevant.

But that's just a tangent. I will not disagree with anything you said. That is the textbook definition/basic explanation of camber. My point is that this guy is not flying around a track. I am going to make an assumption, the OP is the only one that can confirm or deny this, that he doesn't drive the car to the point where the tire will be flat. He is not producing enough standard to dynamic camber change as you put it, to be efficient. Maybe for brief moments. But it was under this assumption that I made my previous statement. Uneven camber wear does not mean the car is handling better, it means you need to dial it down. Racecars shoot for even wear all across and their sole purpose is to go fast. Obviously street cars have more purposes than that so there will be a tradeoff, but it is an example as to why you shouldn't generalize camber wear to handling or understeer.
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      11-20-2012, 06:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8shot View Post
I'll have to check the alignment printout, but I'm pretty sure toe is right on.

It tracks fine.

Does anyone know what 1 tick mark on the vorschlag camber plate equals in actual camber? I'm thinking of pushing them out one tic.

Also, will that effect toe at all? I can't see how it would.
Yes, if you slide the camber plates to reduce the camber (less negative), it will increase the toe (more toe-in).

Do you track this car, or street only?
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      11-21-2012, 02:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
Yes, if you slide the camber plates to reduce the camber (less negative), it will increase the toe (more toe-in).

Do you track this car, or street only?
Street only, with the occasional auto-x event.

I didn't think toe would be effected since height is really the only thing that changes the length of the tie-rod arm (in relation to the rack).
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      11-21-2012, 03:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8shot View Post
Street only, with the occasional auto-x event.

I didn't think toe would be effected since height is really the only thing that changes the length of the tie-rod arm (in relation to the rack).
toe will change with a camber change, but only so slightly if you are looking at just moving one click....BUT the problem is that one camber change click on each side DOES NOT equal the same amount of toe change for each respective side. the toe will be off from side to side.

My recomendation is that since you only auto cross occasionaly, that you dial back some of the neg camber maybe to -1.5 , reset your toe to zero and have at it.. You will still have great handeling and better tire wear.

in the end only an alignment will do you justice.

oddly enough, i have mine set at just over -2.5* and my tires are wearing rather well..( at least my street tires are, my track tires still take a little beating on the outside edge after a few events )
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      11-21-2012, 04:15 PM   #14
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Interesting read about camber and toe .anybody have a simple video of someone explaining it?

English aint my first language but i can kinda figure out what you guys are saying haha
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      11-21-2012, 07:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8shot View Post
Street only, with the occasional auto-x event.

I didn't think toe would be effected since height is really the only thing that changes the length of the tie-rod arm (in relation to the rack).
The range of toe change is about 3/16" from minimum to maximum camber settings.

I get my car aligned to -1.2 degrees camber and 1/16" toe-in with the camber plates at the minimum position. For track, I slide them to the maximum position and get -3.2 camber and 1/8" toe-out.
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      11-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #16
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Hi guys

I have the same wear on my OEM runflats, BUT on the REARs. This image captures perfectly the Inner side side wall wea, and how its very visible on the initial 1/2 inch or so. The wear is so bad that my metal wires are staring to show. My tires have reached end of life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by str8shot View Post

Do I need an alignment? Is this a bad toe in? i don't want to drive on my winters until i sort it out.



Didnt want to start a thread. So I wish to asked here.
Thanks
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      12-13-2012, 09:13 PM   #17
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Thats toe wear not camber wear. As others have mentioned set to 0 and enjoy more tire life Also when you go get an alignment... dont just drop it off and say "align it". You must specify what you want or they'll set it to BMW acceptable ranges which kill tires. For example you could say that you want 0 toe front and rear, 6 degrees of caster and -1.5 degrees of camber front and rear if your just drive on the streets. If you drive your car more aggressively, you could go up to 1/16" or 1/8" total toe IN in the rear to help settle the rear end during more aggressive cornering and add some negative camber so you don't murder the outsides of your tires.
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      12-13-2012, 09:57 PM   #18
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+1 for talking to your mechanic when dropping it off. The shop that does my alignment here in Houston gives me a before and after printout. It showed my right rear toe being way out of spec which I hope is the reason why my Falken on that side lasted all of 6K miles.
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      12-13-2012, 10:01 PM   #19
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The tread pattern looks like PSS's which have a super soft sidewall and these tires seem to exaggerate wear on the edges of the tire when the alignment is off. I had the exact same issue with my fronts. Rears seemed to be fine. I ended up buying used pss's off ebay for the front and corrected the alignment and it worked great until I switched tires.
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