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      11-28-2012, 09:16 AM   #1
c_ozanich
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Legalities Blow

I am looking for input on my current situation, I'm talking to lawyer later today but here's my story:

I live in northeastern Ohio, I searched high and low and ended up purchasing my 2011 135i (M package, AW with Coral Interior--so gorgeous) from a dealership in North Carolina (Planet Auto Imports)

It took roughly 3 weeks of dealing back and forth, I ended up signing for the car and putting $5000 down on September 29, 2012. Another 2 weeks went by before shipping was arranged, I received the vehicle. It was phenomenal and I instantly fell in love

When they sent the car, the truck picked it up a day early-I got the vehicle peppered in tar and un-detailed, no temp tags, and only one Key FOB. I talked to the salesman and he said dealership would reimburse me for the detail error and send the memorandum title right away, I thought all is good. After driving with a temporary tag I purchased, I put roughly 3000 miles on it (brakes started squealing badly after 1200 miles--haven't looked at it but I guess thats a known issue with them, I told dealer they needed changed though in an allusion that they sold me a product with undisclosed information)

I attempted to register the vehicle at my local BMV. The BMV informed me that they had charged me title fees but did not title it, that they should have not charged me sales tax (said I should have paid BMV when I got the car) and in overlooking the paper work again I noticed that they only charged me 3% sales tax when I distinctly told them on 3 different occasions that my county's tax rate is 6.5%

Enter big brother government saying that it has to be paid. Understandable, its law. I contacted my salesman and the managers for 3 weeks before getting an answer/response at all.

Yesterday I spoke with the financing manager who informed me that I was liable to pay the excess tax (another $1200) by saying I signed to pay the taxes. I rebuttled that I signed to pay the fixed amount of tax and that the dealership needs to eat the cost out of the earnings on the vehicle because I informed of the correct tax rates and it was their error. He told me they would not release the title until I have paid the taxes--I then questioned why it took 5 weeks of me having the car and me contacting them before this was brought to light and he started to ask if I was ok that someone might lose their job over this (and other bs guilt trip crap) I told him that if an employee doesn't generate more than that in an annual revenue that they should be fired becuase they don't benefit the company anyway.

The dealership owner is calling me today supposedly, I took one law class in school and it covered interstate contractual disputes but nothing to this level of specifics. Can anyone verify that I have a legitament claim/argument here? I can pay the money if I'm wrong but I honestly don't think I am/should have to. I love the car and would be happy to keep it, but I'm debating telling them to go pound salt and get their car out of my garage
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      11-28-2012, 09:37 AM   #2
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What are you looking to get out of the lawsuit?
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      11-28-2012, 09:47 AM   #3
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that they made the deal for the price as stated on the contract and that because they were wrong on the tax I shouldn't have to pay it, they should. I informed them of the correct amount and they charged me less. They are saying I owe them another $1200 to cover the tax before they will release the title to me (but they charged me a $118 title fee already in the original contract)

They say I have to pay more to get the title, I say we already made a deal for a specified amount and its their responsibility to make the difference up. If we add the extra money to the loan, my monthly amount goes up $22. I've already made two payments and now they tell me I need to pay more than what we both mutually signed for
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      11-28-2012, 09:59 AM   #4
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The car being dirty, not having the second fob, those are legitimate complaints. As far as not having a temp tag, I would have thought you would have been responsible for that anyway when you bought a used car from out of state.

But thinking that they should pay the rest of the tax, sounds rather unreasonable to me. They collected SOME of the tax that YOU are required to pay YOUR state; just because they didn't collect all of it, and that you didn't pay close enough attention to your sales contract shouldn't obligate them to pay the rest.
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      11-28-2012, 10:07 AM   #5
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even though I informed them of their mistake and the sales guy pushed the contract through anyway? I told him he was wrong in the sales tax and he neglected to change it, but they want to now?

If I'm being unreasonable I'll accept it and move on, just a frustrating situation being told I must pay more after the loan paperwork was completed and signed by both parties. The salesman knew the correct tax amount when I informed him of it on 3 different occasions, is that not neglect and a bad deal on their part? Does changing numbers within a contract void it? I believe so according to what I know/learned in school
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      11-28-2012, 10:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MonsterNtheMaking View Post
even though I informed them of their mistake and the sales guy pushed the contract through anyway? I told him he was wrong in the sales tax and he neglected to change it, but they want to now?

If I'm being unreasonable I'll accept it and move on, just a frustrating situation being told I must pay more after the loan paperwork was completed and signed by both parties. The salesman knew the correct tax amount when I informed him of it on 3 different occasions, is that not neglect and a bad deal on their part? Does changing numbers within a contract void it? I believe so according to what I know/learned in school

If he was wrong on the sales tax, why would you sign the contract? Did you read the back of the contract? I wouldn't be surprised if it included some clause severing the sales transaction from your tax/title obligations.

But, like your BMV said, they shouldn't have even charged you sales tax anyway, because the State still has its hand out, TO YOU. So, your only recourse would probably be that the dealer gives you back the sales tax that they collected.

I'm not a lawyer, and contact law loophole legalities aside, you negotiated the price of the car, not the state tax rate. The ethical thing would be for you to just pay up and enjoy the car.
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      11-28-2012, 10:57 AM   #7
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tax stuff is on you...its yours to pay....
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      11-28-2012, 11:28 AM   #8
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pay the friggin tax and move on.....
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      11-28-2012, 11:40 AM   #9
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[quote=Bill B.;13065381]
But, like your BMV said, they shouldn't have even charged you sales tax anyway, because the State still has its hand out, TO YOU. So, your only recourse would probably be that the dealer gives you back the sales tax that they collected.QUOTE]


well, that makes sense. i guess I didn't look at it from the "return what has been paid perspective" so I can correct it. Like I said, if i'm wrong in this then I have no choice but to accept it and drive happy.

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Originally Posted by bromandude View Post
tax stuff is on you...its yours to pay....
yes I understand that fully, but I was arguing/taking the stand that they made the error, not me. I didn't know if I had probable cause or standing to actually do anything about the situation. That's what I was questioning. This thread was not attempts to get people on my side, just to assure myself that my actions were correct or not.

I know its not the same because of a contract, but in looking at a consumer/seller stand point--if the seller agrees to one price and sells the product, then later realizes there is more money required for something in the production process than accounted for, the seller doesn't go back and ask for more money from the consumer. Like I said I know its not the exact same because it's a tax issue and is mandated to be paid, its just a line of thought--but isn't import tax accounted for by any company shipping a product in? Its taken care of in the cost that the seller discloses

All this happened yesterday, I figured I would get a general consensus before requesting something absurd from the dealership.

Thanks for the input, it's appreciated and made me re-think my stand point a little.
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      11-28-2012, 12:03 PM   #10
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The price you negotiate with a dealer is for the price of the vehicle only. Everything above that is secondary and is really your responsibility.
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      11-28-2012, 12:17 PM   #11
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North Carolina has a 3% Sales tax on autos, then you have to pay pseudo "property tax" on the vehicle each year to renew the registration. That would be the standard if you titled the vehicle in NC. I am not sure if you can avoid that 3% sales tax though.

However, Yes you are responsible for paying tax to the state at your county tax rate in order to title/register your vehicle. I don't think Ohio will forgive that 3% you already paid to NC.

Side story...Friend bought a car in Ohio. They paid full county tax on the vehicle (7.75% at the time), Moved to NC a year later. Had to start paying "property tax" on that vehicle (% of the value of the car each year). That is criminal since she already paid full sales tax.

Please keep us posted
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      11-28-2012, 12:31 PM   #12
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miiipilot brings up a good point. They charged you the rate for their state and you are now responsible for the difference when you register the vehicle at the time of registration in your state.

side note: I paid 6% sales tax on my car and pay property tax every year. It's not so unheard of.
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      11-28-2012, 03:47 PM   #13
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I think you would need to check the law in NC and your contract to see exactly what tax was paid. I didn't think NC had a sales tax on motor vehicles but does have a highway use tax that is charged when the title of the vehicle is changed.
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      11-28-2012, 04:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexington View Post
I think you would need to check the law in NC and your contract to see exactly what tax was paid. I didn't think NC had a sales tax on motor vehicles but does have a highway use tax that is charged when the title of the vehicle is changed.
That's what I've been doing most of today. I contacted my lawyer to make sure I was doing things correct/legal/according to the contract. I've also spent a few hours reading the Ohio Revised Code while my lawyer contacted the NC Attorney General. Its just a waiting game now, also still waiting to hear back from the dealership itself on how it recommends rectifying the situation. I'm going to take all into account before making any actions either way.
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      11-28-2012, 04:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miiipilot View Post
North Carolina has a 3% Sales tax on autos, then you have to pay pseudo "property tax" on the vehicle each year to renew the registration. That would be the standard if you titled the vehicle in NC. I am not sure if you can avoid that 3% sales tax though.

However, Yes you are responsible for paying tax to the state at your county tax rate in order to title/register your vehicle. I don't think Ohio will forgive that 3% you already paid to NC.

Side story...Friend bought a car in Ohio. They paid full county tax on the vehicle (7.75% at the time), Moved to NC a year later. Had to start paying "property tax" on that vehicle (% of the value of the car each year). That is criminal since she already paid full sales tax.

Please keep us posted
You are confusing two different taxes here. Sales tax is different than property tax. He cleanly paid the OH sales tax and a year later moved to NC and did not have to pay any additional state sales tax. But to register the car in NC you must get an inspection and pay for the tag/title. Then the county (not state) charges you for property tax. Each year you will get a property tax bill from the county and require a annual inspection before the state will let you pay for a new tag sticker.
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      11-28-2012, 04:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I think you would need to check the law in NC and your contract to see exactly what tax was paid. I didn't think NC had a sales tax on motor vehicles but does have a highway use tax that is charged when the title of the vehicle is changed.
When you buy a car in NC and you are a state resident and register the car in NC, they will charge you 3% sales tax of the purchase price. A onetime only state sales tax. On a NC registered car, each year you pay the county property tax based on the appraised value which is typical from KBB values. The tax is based on what the county levied for personal property in that county. It varies greatly from county to county.
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      11-28-2012, 04:41 PM   #17
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Completely unrelated, but you're Jeff's cousin aren't you?

I was just talking to him about how I was looking into potentially getting a 1 series, and he said his cousin just bought one. And you live in Warren so...lol

Sounds like a pain man, I hope you get the issue resolved quickly and fairly.
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      11-28-2012, 04:46 PM   #18
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I will try to explain what I think is going on here, from the information you have given. The way it is supposed to work for out of state purchases is: You pay for the car only and no sales tax or tag/title and you go to your state with the purchase paper work and pay tax/tag/title and any personal property tax your county may require. Some times as a courtesy, if the dealer has knowledge or prior transactions with certain states, they will do the paperwork and take sales tax and process the tag/title. This mostly happens in borderline states like here in NC and SC.

Another possibility is the dealer as a courtesy took sales tax as part of the overall purchase price and will transfer the sales tax to the state you live in. Then all you have to do is process the tag/title in that state. But in your case they took the incorrect amount equivalent to NC. I seriously doubt they gave it to NC since they absolutely knew you would register the car out of state.

So I am thinking OH will get the 3% sales tax from the dealer then you must pay the additional amount since you are responsible for the full sales tax amount. Yes the dealer made an error, but is not responsible for the sales tax. You are clearly the one that must pay the whole amount.

Good luck.
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      11-28-2012, 04:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisitalia View Post
I will try to explain what I think is going on here, from the information you have given. The way it is supposed to work for out of state purchases is: You pay for the car only and no sales tax or tag/title and you go to your state with the purchase paper work and pay tax/tag/title and any personal property tax your county may require. Some times as a courtesy, if the dealer has knowledge or prior transactions with certain states, they will do the paperwork and take sales tax and process the tag/title. This mostly happens in borderline states like here in NC and SC.

Another possibility is the dealer as a courtesy took sales tax as part of the overall purchase price and will transfer the sales tax to the state you live in. Then all you have to do is process the tag/title in that state. But in your case they took the incorrect amount equivalent to NC. I seriously doubt they gave it to NC since they absolutely knew you would register the car out of state.

So I am thinking OH will get the 3% sales tax from the dealer then you must pay the additional amount since you are responsible for the full sales tax amount. Yes the dealer made an error, but is not responsible for the sales tax. You are clearly the one that must pay the whole amount.

Good luck.
I mean that sounds right to me, but if they knew that he was going to register in Ohio it should have been all or nothing. Either they should have charged the full 6.5% and paid the state of Ohio with that money or not charged him at all and just left it up to him to pay.

It is pretty unfair though. I know when I bought my car I obviously wanted the sales tax included in the price of the car because that's what I would take the loan out for. Now he's going to have to pay the rest of the sales tax out of pocket right now, or redo the loan to compensate for the sales tax if he doesn't want to pay out of pocket.

But it's all in the paperwork and such, so you'll just have to see what you can work out with the dealer.
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      11-28-2012, 05:25 PM   #20
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Completely unrelated, but you're Jeff's cousin aren't you?

I was just talking to him about how I was looking into potentially getting a 1 series, and he said his cousin just bought one. And you live in Warren so...lol

Sounds like a pain man, I hope you get the issue resolved quickly and fairly.
yup, that's me. I think i have the only one around, couple buddies have 335i but i haven't noticed any other 1ers. If you want to meet up or check it out let me know. I'm fairly free on the weekends




To Everyone Else;

The dealer has gotten back to me, I explained what was going on to the dealership owner. The finance manager told me the only way I could get the title was to pay the rest of the money. I explained what was going on to the owner, entire process from top to bottom, and he is sending me a check valued for the 3% taxes I was charged, the title and doc fee and the extra key FOB and detailing money. The title will be released and I will take care of taxes-as it should have been from the beginning. Owner said he didn't know why i was charged them initially anyway and sorry for the inconvenience of not having this settled sooner.
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      11-28-2012, 06:05 PM   #21
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What a difference 8 hours makes...
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      11-29-2012, 08:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
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What a difference 8 hours makes...
8 hours and people that are actually invested in a growing business. finance manager (can't truly say but accent sounded like he was foreign--maybe language gap?) stood to his word that I pay more or they come get car. Company owner was reasonable and I'm sure me being slightly calmer helped things also.
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