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      11-28-2012, 07:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammonia View Post
Lemme chime in here and help clarify a few things... snip
Great info - appreciate it. I'm a "tire kicker" before I pull the trigger, and I can tell it's bothersome to the CAs, but it's part of my process. I try to tell them straight away I'm not there to buy a car at that time, and when I am ready, I'm clear about it.

I guess it's startling on some level because it's so inconsistent - some will do the search easily, and this fella required the guarantee. I think you're basically right about how he perceived the OP's intention, but in the end, he loses his current and former business, and for no reason. While it's certainly valid for him to have acted this way, I still find it short-sighted.
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      11-28-2012, 07:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mb135is View Post
Great info - appreciate it. I'm a "tire kicker" before I pull the trigger, and I can tell it's bothersome to the CAs, but it's part of my process. I try to tell them straight away I'm not there to buy a car at that time, and when I am ready, I'm clear about it.

I guess it's startling on some level because it's so inconsistent - some will do the search easily, and this fella required the guarantee. I think you're basically right about how he perceived the OP's intention, but in the end, he loses his current and former business, and for no reason. While it's certainly valid for him to have acted this way, I still find it short-sighted.
Yea I agree, its very short sighted. Its much better to simply be polite and entertain any questions the customer may have. It requires some sort of discretion in some cases though. We had a customer who literally spent a year visiting the dealership almost every week, telling us stories about how well his business was doing and how money was no option. He'd drive up in this Escalade and tell us he paid cash for it, and would demand us to find this and this car in this option and color, telling us we were providing poor customer service if we were reluctant, so on and on. When we eventually did a credit check he couldn't prove his income, his beacon was in the 400s, he had multiple repos and a recent bankruptcy. We all wanted to strangle him. The best part was when he tried to explain why "his" Escalade was registered in his friend's name.

That is an extreme case though. For me personally, I'll just use common sense. In the OP's case? I would have gladly found the car for him, since I know he is a motivated buyer. He just knows what he wants and doesn't want to settle, and thats 100% understandable.
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      11-28-2012, 09:01 AM   #25
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I bust a gut reading this thread in order when I got to "BMW" and "Fleet"...as those certainly not two works you'd equate with one-another...at least in Canada.
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      11-29-2012, 08:36 AM   #26
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There are basically 3 dealerships in the area. One I had no intention of dealing with due to his abhorrent reputation with other marquees.
Of the 2 remaining, one was a bit of a drive. Regardless, I met with the sales manager who was a true BMW guy. I had previously done
a "build" on the BMW website, so I knew exactly the car I wanted to order. He ran a locator and there were none in the pipeline, so I would
have to order the car from Leipzig, which I suspected would be the case going in. This was in late December during the "Mission To Drive"
promotion, so there was some wiggle room to be had. Problem was, they weren't able to offer me what I knew my MX-5 was worth on a
trade, so I headed to dealership number 3. The experience was much the same. I had/have a great CA who had the car on order roughly a
half-hour after I sat down. Obviously, they didn't hardball me on my trade and had an even better bottom line offer on the 135.
I've purchased dozens of cars for myself and others. Even sold for a bit. My advice? Know what you want. Know what you're willing to pay.
Know what your trade is worth (realistically). Unless you sit down with a jerk of a CA (and if you're not comfortable, move on), your sales
process will be pretty painless.
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      11-29-2012, 09:51 AM   #27
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I'm guessing OP called Otto's BMW in Ottawa, first lady sales was Martha

Don't go there, a bunch of assholes. They will LIE to you to get a sale of what they have.
Wael in their sales fleet told me more than once that in order to do ED I had to pay cash (on my first 135); and when I was interested in an ED with 1M he said he's not available.


Drove to Elite, talked to Haig, got good deals. Very nice guy

Go with Elite, talk to Haig.
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      12-01-2012, 07:47 AM   #28
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Thanks for the replies.

Some good points brought up from everyone. A small update regarding this particular dealer. Simsims ( spot on by the way it is in fact this dealer ).

I got in touch with the sales manager from this dealership and explained the whole situation over the phone. Its hard to say what he thought but I didn't feel any sort of genuine interest or care from him. He did say he was going to talk to the guy (give him a high five maybe?) And offered to do a quick search for me on his system. He got back to me with a car that looked interesting but never replied back to my followup question.

I don't think I want to give them my business after all of this I'm worried if I bought a car from them that they wouldn't service it properly.

I've inquired from a couple dealerships about doing a custom build and they all seem to say around late Jan early Feb to start production... Seems like a long time to wait, and I wouldn't get nearly the same discount so I would have to forgo some of the options I like.

A forum member from Montreal pm'd me to get in touch with a Quebec dealership unfortunately you can't do balloon financing in QB so I have to rule that out.

Ive found a car very close to what I'm looking for. It's in the Toronto Area.
I've been given a generous but seemingly average discount for a 2012 model 10% off.
Its not the color I wanted but it doesn't look bad.

I'm ready to jump on it but I feel they are screwing me around on my trade.
The most they want to offer for my 2007 Rabbit is $6000. It's in mint condition with 89k km's. The interior looks new still.





Keep in mind that dealers are selling these cars used in my area for $12,000-16,000. I made an offer for them to give me $7000 but haven't heard back. Dealers in my area have offered 7000 to 7500 around there.

I know its only a thousand bucks but for me its still a lot of money. I've tried selling it on the local kijiji and used ottawa(craigslist) but no interest.

What do you guys think should I jump on this one? I'd probably accept it if they met me half way but I don't think they want to negotiate any further.

Another thing thats got me interested is the new pictures of the 2 series coupe(convertible). Seems like a new model is around the corner... part of me wants a 135i right now but I'm wondering if the 2 series will be a significant improvement over the current model.

Last edited by thehalcyon; 12-01-2012 at 07:52 AM.
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      12-01-2012, 12:04 PM   #29
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Some thoughts:

1. Have you tried to sell your car on CraigsList? I've sold several cars that way. They weren't high-dollar, late model cars, but everyone of them was sold within 3 days, at a price that was a lot better than the trade-in offer. Looks like your VW might be a good candidate.

2. Dealers often have "demonstrator" models to sell, and present them as a great deal. When you dig a bit deeper, however, the dealers typically want to sell the car simply at invoice. Oftentimes they have a lot of dealer options that carry a significant markup, and they discount those heavily without discounting the car.

3. Pay attention to the "document fee", "marketing fees", and other fees that are non-negotiable. For example, the Atlanta area dealers all charge about $600 in marketing fees, and won't budge. To me it seems like (illegal) trade collusion, but every one I've talked to does it. For that reason, I bought cars from neighboring states where they don't charge those fees.

4. Any dealer should be able to search the BMW inventory system and see what dealers have what cars, where they are, and what's on order. I just bought one, and every dealer offered to do the same thing.

5. The BMW website has a search option for pre-owned cars, across the country. I've found (and bought) a couple using that feature - it works well.
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      12-01-2012, 12:53 PM   #30
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You should stick to your guns on the trade in price, but keep in mind that dealers always get more for a car than a private seller. Dealers are in business to make a profit. You're in Canada, so I don't know if the same services and opportunities apply, but Craigslist is a good option. Also, if you have Carmax in Canada, they're worth a visit. They'll give you a quote on your car and will buy it even if you don't buy a car from them. Selling the car privately will always net you more profit though. You just have to dot your i's and cross your t's so you don't get screwed. Only accept cash, and make sure you do ALL the required paperwork up front. Don't let someone leave with a half-bought car.
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      12-01-2012, 01:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
You should stick to your guns on the trade in price, but keep in mind that dealers always get more for a car than a private seller. Dealers are in business to make a profit. You're in Canada, so I don't know if the same services and opportunities apply, but Craigslist is a good option. Also, if you have Carmax in Canada, they're worth a visit. They'll give you a quote on your car and will buy it even if you don't buy a car from them. Selling the car privately will always net you more profit though. You just have to dot your i's and cross your t's so you don't get screwed. Only accept cash, and make sure you do ALL the required paperwork up front. Don't let someone leave with a half-bought car.
Great point about the paperwork - I usually meet the buyer at my bank, as they have notary services if needed, etc. And make copies of all the paperwork, such as where you have signed over the title.
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      12-01-2012, 01:40 PM   #32
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This has been a fun read, and very informtive! I have always enjoyed the bartering process. I have pissed off many a salesman, and "walked out" over little issues. For me, I have to feel good about the process. It's my money and I could care less if the salesman eats steak or hamburger after a sale.
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      12-01-2012, 05:03 PM   #33
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Hi Guys,

I may have found my car. I got fed up with my latest offer first they went back on their original price to me because I was financing. Wasn't that great of a deal anyway.

I got fed up and just started calling dealers in the Toronto area. I managed to find the car I was looking for I think by chance.

It's a demo with 7600km on it, and fully loaded (or close)
Lemans blue
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Here is a couple pics:









Just put the deposit on it, will keep you guys posted.

Cheers,

Last edited by thehalcyon; 12-01-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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      12-01-2012, 09:57 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehalcyon View Post
Hi Guys,

I may have found my car. I got fed up with my latest offer first they went back on their original price to me because I was financing. Wasn't that great of a deal anyway.

I got fed up and just started calling dealers in the Toronto area. I managed to find the car I was looking for I think by chance.

It's a demo with 7600km on it, and fully loaded (or close)
Lemans blue
exec package (black boston leather)
H/K sound package
Navigation
Premium
Msport


Just put the deposit on it, will keep you guys posted.

Cheers,
Looking good, is it a manual?
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      12-01-2012, 10:08 PM   #35
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Looking good, is it a manual?
It is indeed. I had a question regarding winter tires for it, perhaps you guys can weigh in with your opinion.

Dealer says that they just but on winter tires recently (must be slightly used because he says its 7mm vs 8mm of a new tire tread left.

I'm told the winter tires retail for $3290 or so new, he offered to include them for $2500. Probably a good deal but it brings up a concern for me.

I have fears of buying a used set on kijiji or craigslist only to find out there is a hairline crack on the rim, its warped and causes a vibration in the steering/car at speed etc..

Another point or concern is that I put a deposit and I plan on going there sometime next week to pick it up, but told them the sale was subject to a test drive.

If I test drive it with winter tires it wont give me a great or "accurate" impression of how the car is meant to drive during the spring-fall seasons.

Is it better to drive back home (474 km ) with summer tires in potentially winterish weather (still early but there could be a snowfall). I would drive slowly and carefully obviously. At least I would see if there is any faults in the handling or ride during my test drive.

Or better to not risk it and cough up the hefty price for winter tires( I'm used to my vw where a new set/package was around 900 or so)
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      12-02-2012, 10:08 AM   #36
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Budds is 15 mins from my house, I actually drove that car....lol
$2500 seems high for winter tires and rims, but thats what dealerships get I guess....
I think unless it "just snowed" you will be fine to drive home with the summer tires.
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      12-02-2012, 10:20 AM   #37
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As long as there isn't any snow on the ground, and you don't drive too crazy with summer tires on the cold roads, you'll be fine. I've been driving around with mine anywhere from 21 degree's(F) and up, the lower the temperature, the less traction they have basically.
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      12-02-2012, 10:27 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Budds is 15 mins from my house, I actually drove that car....lol
$2500 seems high for winter tires and rims, but thats what dealerships get I guess....
I think unless it "just snowed" you will be fine to drive home with the summer tires.

Can you vouch for the car? I was told the business manager was using it... I hope the interior is in good shape, I can't stand the look of shiny leather and such. $2500 is alot .. I'm still searching for options
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      12-02-2012, 10:42 AM   #39
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Yes, it drove great when I took it out, with absolutely no issues.....
It had the summer tires on it back then.
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      12-02-2012, 11:09 AM   #40
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2500 can get you brand new rims and winter tires off of tire rack. I would say skip on them.
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      12-02-2012, 01:49 PM   #41
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So I stopped by Budds on my way home today to see the car. They had it tucked away in a corner. Upon close inspection I could not find ANY dings, dents, or scratches on it. Everything looked great. I took a close look at the winter tires and wheels and they are not brand new. The wheels had that brown look to them and signs of wear. The tires looked newish. My guess is they had these on a car last winter and put them on yours for this winter....$2500 seems high. For half that you could get a set of new steel wheels with new tires..
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Last edited by Webb70; 12-02-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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      12-02-2012, 02:18 PM   #42
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So I stopped by Budds on my way home today to see the car. They had it tucked away in a corner. Upon close inspection I could not find ANY dings, dents, or scratches on it. Everything looked great. I took a close look at the winter tires and wheels and they are not brand new. The wheels had that brown look to them and signs of wear. The tires looked newish. My guess is they had these on a car last winter and put them on yours for this winter....$2500 seems high. For half that you could get a set of new steel wheels with new tires..

Thanks for checking out the car!

Glad to hear they kept it in good condition.. its tough to buy something like this without seeing it. I told them the sale was subject to a test drive but still.

Thanks for the heads up on the tires/rims I sent the dealer an email today saying I was gonna pass on them and look for a set locally.
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      12-03-2012, 01:37 AM   #43
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Having second thoughts on the demo.

After some searching in the forums I see that people regularly abuse and mistreat demos. I'm really having second thoughts since I'm financing the car not leasing it. I was offered about 4.7% on top of the 2012 discounts of around 10%.. (7650km on the odo)

Should I be worried? Obviously people are going to do some spirited driving in these demo cars, I'm thinking the stock m sport tires are probably going to be half worn out too.

Should I ask for new tires, extended warranty? walk away? Already gave them my deposit and the car is loaded with more than what I wanted originally.
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      12-03-2012, 09:17 AM   #44
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Having second thoughts on the demo.

After some searching in the forums I see that people regularly abuse and mistreat demos. I'm really having second thoughts since I'm financing the car not leasing it. I was offered about 4.7% on top of the 2012 discounts of around 10%.. (7650km on the odo)

Should I be worried? Obviously people are going to do some spirited driving in these demo cars, I'm thinking the stock m sport tires are probably going to be half worn out too.

Should I ask for new tires, extended warranty? walk away? Already gave them my deposit and the car is loaded with more than what I wanted originally.
I dunno about this car. The good thing is the discount, and it's a nicely equipped manual car in LMBlue (the best color..).

The negatives are it's a lot of kms for a demo. Seems too high to me unless it's been in use a while. Find out what the "in-service" date is as that's the time your warranty starts to run. For me personally, I would not like that others have put 7700kms on my car....maybe just me. I doubt they will go for extended warranty, but you could ask. How much is your deposit? Any dealership worth it's salt will not keep a deposit if a customer changes his mind. What about ordering a new one? I would get the dealership to search the dealer inventories to find you a new one, and arrange to have it delivered (it might cost you a bit of extra shipping).
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