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      11-15-2012, 10:21 AM   #1
mike the snake
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Car veers right and left when spinning the wheels

08 135i manual, when I turn off the traction control and try to accellerate hard in 1st or 2nd as soon as the tires break loose the car veers right or left severely.

I literally almost crashed when I romped on it in 2nd going straight, the rear went sideways instantly and I almost slapped the car next to me.

Going up freeway onramps in the rain, when I spin the wheels the car lurches right-left-right, and goes anything but straight. It literally changes lanes, and I can barely hang on to the car, going straight.

It is so bad I've stopped hotrodding the car, this condition is really unsafe.

Is this the E-diff? Could it be alignment (the car is properly aligned)?
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      11-15-2012, 10:35 AM   #2
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Is this really a serious post?

The laws of physics are not superceded, even by BMW. It's a powerful, RWD drive car and you have the control devise turned off. What do you expect?

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      11-15-2012, 10:48 AM   #3
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Oh man, this read just made my day lol
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      11-15-2012, 11:30 AM   #4
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Oh man, this read just made my day lol
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      11-15-2012, 11:38 AM   #5
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2008 BMW 135i  [2.83]
I do not have this issue, just a slight tilt to the right like any higher powered rwd car. I think you're just not driving it properly. Over correction perhaps?
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      11-15-2012, 12:14 PM   #6
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You didnt mention which tires you are running?
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      11-15-2012, 12:40 PM   #7
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I do notice this slightly more so than other high powered LSD equipped rwd cars I've had including an 06 bmw m6, supercharged z06 vette and a few others..
I would say its not as dramatic as you described and is still controllable to me, but I think the E-Diff may have something to do with it since it does use brake distribution and sends power from side to side to find traction.
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      11-15-2012, 12:51 PM   #8
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ediff is very slow compared to a mechanical diff which actually locks
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      11-15-2012, 01:00 PM   #9
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when I had stock rear wheels my car would slightly veer to the side but it was controllable. With wider non run flats and a LSD, I can get it to break traction but it does so in a straight line.

It was never as extreme as you describe and I dont suggest you turn off the Traction Control and romp on the car in the rain. You may crash.
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      11-15-2012, 04:25 PM   #10
mike the snake
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Sorry, I didn't mean to come off ignorant.

I've raced cars, and I have plenty of experience with high performance driving. I plan to autocross my 135, but I'm serious when I say my car literally changes lanes, and is a total handfull when I fully accellerate in 1st and 2nd gears.

Other non LSD cars I've owned would spin one wheel, or if on very even ground would spin both wheels and get slightly sideways, but my 135 becomes a bucking bronco when getting on it.
I was prepared for the back end to break loose, but not to whip out so violently when I almost lost it. It wasn't simply the car getting sideways and I wasn't ready for it. No amount of correction or overcorrection would have stopped that incident, it was instantaneous and violent.

It's not me, or inexperience, something is not right about my car. In comparison, my race car WAS a handfull for good reason, and I was easily able to handle full throttle and getting sideways in it because it was predictable.

The shop that installed my Ohlins R&T suspension mentioned the back of the car didn't feel right but the car hadn't been aligned yet so I attributed what they said to that.

My car has Michelin PSS 245-265 with Apex wheels, Ohlins R&T suspension, Procede tune with DCT's and axle-back exhaust, and has been aligned properly.

It feels almost like a link is broken, almost like rear steering.

I remember reading a thread here about someone else having the same issue, basically changing lanes under hard accelleration, so I know I'm not totally alone.

I was hoping maybe someone knew something, maybe a worn rear link or maybe had a similar behaving car, but in any case I'm glad some at least got some entertainment value from my post.

I'll try and get a video and post it up.
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      11-15-2012, 04:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake View Post
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off ignorant.

I've raced cars, and I have plenty of experience with high performance driving. I plan to autocross my 135, but I'm serious when I say my car literally changes lanes, and is a total handfull when I fully accellerate in 1st and 2nd gears.

Other non LSD cars I've owned would spin one wheel, or if on very even ground would spin both wheels and get slightly sideways, but my 135 becomes a bucking bronco when getting on it.
I was prepared for the back end to break loose, but not to whip out so violently when I almost lost it. It wasn't simply the car getting sideways and I wasn't ready for it. No amount of correction or overcorrection would have stopped that incident, it was instantaneous and violent.

It's not me, or inexperience, something is not right about my car. In comparison, my race car WAS a handfull for good reason, and I was easily able to handle full throttle and getting sideways in it because it was predictable.

The shop that installed my Ohlins R&T suspension mentioned the back of the car didn't feel right but the car hadn't been aligned yet so I attributed what they said to that.

My car has Michelin PSS 245-265 with Apex wheels, Ohlins R&T suspension, Procede tune with DCT's and axle-back exhaust, and has been aligned properly.

It feels almost like a link is broken, almost like rear steering.

I remember reading a thread here about someone else having the same issue, basically changing lanes under hard accelleration, so I know I'm not totally alone.

I was hoping maybe someone knew something, maybe a worn rear link or maybe had a similar behaving car, but in any case I'm glad some at least got some entertainment value from my post.

I'll try and get a video and post it up.

Mike - I would look at your rear suspension links. #18 & #19 in this diagram....

Name:  135i rear suspension 284.png
Views: 1490
Size:  20.6 KB


I remember Harold at HPA saying they go bad all the time. He sells the M3 links to increase traction off the line. I bet your are bad/worn out. I think a four wheel alignment wouldn't hurt matters either.


BMW Rear Guide Rod Kit - Better traction and handling
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...light=traction
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      11-15-2012, 04:45 PM   #12
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Thanks very much!!! I'll take a look at those links.

When I had the Ohlins R&T shocks, springs, M3 subframe bushings, and new wheels and tires installed, I had the car 4-wheel aligned at a reputable local shop, so it HAS been aligned, but not to say it may have changed since then.
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      11-15-2012, 04:56 PM   #13
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Now that you put it into more relative terms, I have to say I have a similar problem.

My car already has the M3 rear sub-frame bushings, all linkages except the rear lower control arm are already M3 arms and I have a limited slip. But under hard acceleration in a corner with good traction I can feel the rear "squirm" and the car steers in a "funny" way. It doesn't quite cause me to leave my lane, but it certainly makes my car wiggle.

It does feel like something is loose/broken or otherwise allowed to move. Just can't find what it might be.

I do autocross and haven't had any problems during an autocross. But it might just because the corners are different during an autocross and I don't have much time to "pay attention" to the problem.

So if you do find a solution, let me know
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      11-15-2012, 04:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake View Post
Thanks very much!!! I'll take a look at those links.

When I had the Ohlins R&T shocks, springs, M3 subframe bushings, and new wheels and tires installed, I had the car 4-wheel aligned at a reputable local shop, so it HAS been aligned, but not to say it may have changed since then.
Sometimes you have to have a second alignment done once the new springs settle/sag.

I noticed a few months after I replaced my rear subframe bushings with M3 units... that the rear end felt very squirrelly at high speeds (>135 mph to 170mph). So a four wheel alignment is always a good idea. I'd say do one every year or so.
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      11-15-2012, 10:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake View Post
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off ignorant.

I've raced cars, and I have plenty of experience with high performance driving. I plan to autocross my 135, but I'm serious when I say my car literally changes lanes, and is a total handfull when I fully accellerate in 1st and 2nd gears.

Other non LSD cars I've owned would spin one wheel, or if on very even ground would spin both wheels and get slightly sideways, but my 135 becomes a bucking bronco when getting on it.
I was prepared for the back end to break loose, but not to whip out so violently when I almost lost it. It wasn't simply the car getting sideways and I wasn't ready for it. No amount of correction or overcorrection would have stopped that incident, it was instantaneous and violent.

It's not me, or inexperience, something is not right about my car. In comparison, my race car WAS a handfull for good reason, and I was easily able to handle full throttle and getting sideways in it because it was predictable.

The shop that installed my Ohlins R&T suspension mentioned the back of the car didn't feel right but the car hadn't been aligned yet so I attributed what they said to that.

My car has Michelin PSS 245-265 with Apex wheels, Ohlins R&T suspension, Procede tune with DCT's and axle-back exhaust, and has been aligned properly.

It feels almost like a link is broken, almost like rear steering.

I remember reading a thread here about someone else having the same issue, basically changing lanes under hard accelleration, so I know I'm not totally alone.

I was hoping maybe someone knew something, maybe a worn rear link or maybe had a similar behaving car, but in any case I'm glad some at least got some entertainment value from my post.

I'll try and get a video and post it up.
I was critical of your initial post, based on your short post and your initial comments made you sound a bit immature and inexperienced. Based on this subsequent post, I now realize that you are not that at all, and there is considerably more to the story than you first told us.

That is the big trouble with car enthusiast sites, in that posts are often made in a hurry, or without properly thinking out how the initial post will be interpretted by others on here. It is also one of the reasons I am personally getting rather tired of these sites. I wish posters would think about how their post is going to "sound" to others, and phrase their comments accordingly.

Or maybe I'm just getting too old for this to be fun anymore........
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      11-15-2012, 11:26 PM   #16
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Thanks. After rereading my post, I realized it wasn't worded well, and didn't contain enough pertinent information.
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      12-12-2012, 06:45 PM   #17
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I had the same issue with my last 135 m sport, summer tires and 35 degrees, nothing wrong with the car, just keep the stability control on or u may smack into ur neighbors car,,,uh maybe that was me and why it was my last 135 haha. Seriously tho, these cars are much diff then one you may have driven with a normal LSD, not to mention two turbos which have a tendacy to rip wide open when presented with little resistance such as cold road surface. I prefer to keep my nannies on now, sometimes ill turn off traction only, but I do not like the rear on the 135 without stability on, its really unpredictable, without warning it can send u into an almost spin then over correct itself if you keep pushing it. Ive tried this at the air park with plenty of open space and it can be very unpredictable what the rear will do. I know this post makes me sound pretty stupid but I do see what the OP is asking about
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      12-12-2012, 06:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
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The laws of physics are not superceded, even by BMW.

My favorite line from the owners manual.
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      12-12-2012, 09:19 PM   #19
mike the snake
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Thanks for posting!!

My car's going in Monday to have the rear links checked.

I'm not sure if it's the E-diff, or something with the rear suspension, but my car goes anything but straight in 1st and 2nd gear at WOT.

Other cars with open diffs that I've driven would simply light up the lesser loaded rear wheel. My cars with LSD's the rear would break loose predictably and were easily controlled with countersteering, but my 135 literally whips the back end out when the tires break loose (while going straight).

My race car came VERY close to superceding the laws of physics and I could control it even at WOT with both 13" wide Goodyear radial slicks lit up, and it was probably one of THE hardest cars to control in a slide. My 135 scares me.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 2totalled2months View Post
I had the same issue with my last 135 m sport, summer tires and 35 degrees, nothing wrong with the car, just keep the stability control on or u may smack into ur neighbors car,,,uh maybe that was me and why it was my last 135 haha. Seriously tho, these cars are much diff then one you may have driven with a normal LSD, not to mention two turbos which have a tendacy to rip wide open when presented with little resistance such as cold road surface. I prefer to keep my nannies on now, sometimes ill turn off traction only, but I do not like the rear on the 135 without stability on, its really unpredictable, without warning it can send u into an almost spin then over correct itself if you keep pushing it. Ive tried this at the air park with plenty of open space and it can be very unpredictable what the rear will do. I know this post makes me sound pretty stupid but I do see what the OP is asking about
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      12-13-2012, 10:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake View Post
Thanks for posting!!

My car's going in Monday to have the rear links checked.

I'm not sure if it's the E-diff, or something with the rear suspension, but my car goes anything but straight in 1st and 2nd gear at WOT.

Other cars with open diffs that I've driven would simply light up the lesser loaded rear wheel. My cars with LSD's the rear would break loose predictably and were easily controlled with countersteering, but my 135 literally whips the back end out when the tires break loose (while going straight).

My race car came VERY close to superceding the laws of physics and I could control it even at WOT with both 13" wide Goodyear radial slicks lit up, and it was probably one of THE hardest cars to control in a slide. My 135 scares me.
Good to hear you are taking her in. Keep us posted on the outcome.
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      12-14-2012, 05:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake View Post
Thanks for posting!!

My car's going in Monday to have the rear links checked.

I'm not sure if it's the E-diff, or something with the rear suspension, but my car goes anything but straight in 1st and 2nd gear at WOT.

Other cars with open diffs that I've driven would simply light up the lesser loaded rear wheel. My cars with LSD's the rear would break loose predictably and were easily controlled with countersteering, but my 135 literally whips the back end out when the tires break loose (while going straight).

My race car came VERY close to superceding the laws of physics and I could control it even at WOT with both 13" wide Goodyear radial slicks lit up, and it was probably one of THE hardest cars to control in a slide. My 135 scares me.
Keep us posted about what they say, if anything. I have summer tires on my new one and its freezing here the last few days, rain too, so I haven't had the chance to see if this one does the same thing. My others did tho, mostly controllable, especially in straight line, but the stock ROF tires turn to Vaseline covered tires below 45 degrees
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      12-21-2012, 01:39 PM   #22
mike the snake
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The shop said everything checked out perfect. No worn links, alignment all good.

I had the DCI filters cleaned, and Burger oil catch can installed, and it feels like the car has a bit more power (filters were dirty, and I'm told the blow-by affects the octane rating) but maybe that's in my head.

It's raining today, I'm going to find a big, open parking lot, and see if I can't find something that I can identify, or at least describe better about how it behaves.
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