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      12-22-2012, 02:21 PM   #1
Lambobimmer
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Will M3 rear subframe bushing correct wheel hop?

I am running FBO with the Cobb E30 map and I am experiencing wheel hop. I am wondering if replacing the rear subframe bushings with the M3 bushings would correct this.
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      12-22-2012, 02:44 PM   #2
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Well... every suspension mod helps - but I'd say no.

I think I would look at the upper suspension links. You could switch over to the 1M/M3 alloy ones that Harold at HPA promotes as "traction bars". They should help you get off of the line.

I think your real problem is shock/spring rates and your at the point where you NEED an LSD.
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      12-22-2012, 04:36 PM   #3
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I have an LSD but I am still getting wheel hop off of the line. I am currently running BMW Performance Springs and Koni Yellow shocks.
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      12-22-2012, 06:37 PM   #4
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Would lowering rear tire pressure help at all? I know some of the slicks run super low pressure to act as a shock absorber for wheel hop and prevent spinning the wheels.
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      12-22-2012, 06:46 PM   #5
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Lower rear tire pressure works great on the drag strip but not on the street. You will mess up the side walls of your tires on pot holes and break a rim if you are unlucky.
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      12-22-2012, 09:31 PM   #6
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help but not cure lol
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      12-22-2012, 09:33 PM   #7
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Oh and I have cobb, bmw ps, the m3 bushings and control arms. I love the m3 bushings!
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      12-23-2012, 06:06 AM   #8
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Maybe powerflex diff bushes would solve this.
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      12-23-2012, 10:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboworld View Post
I have an LSD but I am still getting wheel hop off of the line. I am currently running BMW Performance Springs and Koni Yellow shocks.
I bet you guys have a bad rear link (upper or lower) on your suspension! See Harold@HP Autowerks thread...

BMW Rear Guide Rod Kit - Better traction and handling
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...3464&highlight
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      12-23-2012, 05:46 PM   #10
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It's definitely a step in the right direction. A bad rear subframe bushing in many sports cars will cause wheel hop which is also bad for the transmission. I would do what others suggest first, though, and that's to make sure your existing setup is dialed in the best it can be.
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      12-23-2012, 06:01 PM   #11
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I will check the rear links to see if one of them is bad. I doubt that is the problem but I will check. Is it possible for wheel hop to increase with worn tires? I have been running a set of MPSP and they have less than 5mm left on the rears. I might just change the rear subframe bushing anyways, based on the positive feedback that I have read about them.
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      12-24-2012, 02:11 AM   #12
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it depends on *when* you get the wheel hop. drag racing? you need to give your ass end some room to breath. you need to raise up the back end a little, soften it up just a bit to let it dump on launch. in 200+ more hp you'll need to really start looking at your rear suspension.

if you're just hopping on the street... post your alignment specs.
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      12-24-2012, 06:56 AM   #13
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Knowing when and to what extent you're getting wheel hop will greatly help point you in the right direction
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      12-26-2012, 09:57 AM   #14
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It's in the nature of suspension man... Wheel hop happens when you accelerate hard and the wheels are pushed forward in the wheel wells under intense grip, the rear toe changes, the car looses grip and the wheels spin, suspension returns back to position under wheel spin, the car gains grip again aggressively and the dynamic alignment specs tweak again as the wheels are pushed forward, the car looses grip again and so on.

A limited slip, springs, sways won't do anything. Proper suspension arms and bushings will help minimize the amount of deflection and thus dynamic alignment change while taking off but it's not something you can "cure". Arms, bushings (control arms and subframe) and feathering the throttle properly is what you need mate. Dampers can help as well if the dampers aren't able to properly dampen the suspension movement, but you said you got a set of Koni's already.

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      12-26-2012, 12:48 PM   #15
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http://www.defivfabrication.com/


This is the only means of COMPLETELY eliminating wheel hop available right now. I've been following the develop of this for a long time and the end result is AMAZING.
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      12-26-2012, 01:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
http://www.defivfabrication.com/


This is the only means of COMPLETELY eliminating wheel hop available right now. I've been following the develop of this for a long time and the end result is AMAZING.
What bushings does this kit replace and where is the 4th link? There's hardly any information provided, no images of the kit and sounds like a great way to bend a suspension component... If you lock up everything in the rear end with everything completely solid, no bushings to absorb impact, then those suspension forces are going to be fed somewhere else and likely bend something given a good hit. No extra NVH either? I'd like to see this...
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      12-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoFast1589 View Post
What bushings does this kit replace and where is the 4th link? There's hardly any information provided, no images of the kit and sounds like a great way to bend a suspension component... If you lock up everything in the rear end with everything completely solid, no bushings to absorb impact, then those suspension forces are going to be fed somewhere else and likely bend something given a good hit. No extra NVH either? I'd like to see this...
It replaces all bushings and the 4th link is tied into the differential cover. I can't directly link to it() but if you Google "defiv wheel hop lock down" and click the "officially released" link you'll find all the info you need
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      10-22-2013, 03:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoFast1589 View Post
What bushings does this kit replace and where is the 4th link? There's hardly any information provided, no images of the kit and sounds like a great way to bend a suspension component... If you lock up everything in the rear end with everything completely solid, no bushings to absorb impact, then those suspension forces are going to be fed somewhere else and likely bend something given a good hit. No extra NVH either? I'd like to see this...
I got this installed when I got my Wavetrac installed last week.
I have a couple of crappy pics of the kit below.

But I am still getting a bit of wheel hop, would replacing the rear guide rods most likely fix this?


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      10-22-2013, 11:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoFast1589 View Post
It's in the nature of suspension man... Wheel hop happens when you accelerate hard and the wheels are pushed forward in the wheel wells under intense grip, the rear toe changes, the car looses grip and the wheels spin, suspension returns back to position under wheel spin, the car gains grip again aggressively and the dynamic alignment specs tweak again as the wheels are pushed forward, the car looses grip again and so on.

A limited slip, springs, sways won't do anything. Proper suspension arms and bushings will help minimize the amount of deflection and thus dynamic alignment change while taking off but it's not something you can "cure". Arms, bushings (control arms and subframe) and feathering the throttle properly is what you need mate. Dampers can help as well if the dampers aren't able to properly dampen the suspension movement, but you said you got a set of Koni's already.

+1 right here. There's no absolute fix, maybe besides buying a Mustang. It's the nature of an IRS. You might get rid of 98% of it by replacing every bushing with metal, but then the car will have serious amounts of NVH.

Honestly I don't think it is that bad considering. Really should only get wheel hop when you're spinning tires, so if you just back off the throttle you'll reduce wheel hop AND make your car go faster. If you want a car for doing sick burnouts, buy a Mustang.
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      11-12-2013, 03:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
I got this installed when I got my Wavetrac installed last week.
I have a couple of crappy pics of the kit below.

But I am still getting a bit of wheel hop, would replacing the rear guide rods most likely fix this?


Yes, M3 guide rods will help. So will upgraded rear toe arms.

Although this upgrade may help with wheel hop issues, it will also transmit too much driveline noise to the cabin of the vehicle. Solid differential bushings belong to a track/race car only, NOT on a street car.
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      11-12-2013, 08:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freon View Post
+1 right here. There's no absolute fix, maybe besides buying a Mustang. It's the nature of an IRS. You might get rid of 98% of it by replacing every bushing with metal, but then the car will have serious amounts of NVH.

Honestly I don't think it is that bad considering. Really should only get wheel hop when you're spinning tires, so if you just back off the throttle you'll reduce wheel hop AND make your car go faster. If you want a car for doing sick burnouts, buy a Mustang.
+2 its an IRS thing. Cut back on the launch, you shock the suspension like a drag car & the wheels will bounce.
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      11-12-2013, 08:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
Yes, M3 guide rods will help. So will upgraded rear toe arms.

Although this upgrade may help with wheel hop issues, it will also transmit too much driveline noise to the cabin of the vehicle. Solid differential bushings belong to a track/race car only, NOT on a street car.
You would think so, but suprisingly it's not that bad. There is a bit more whine but not that much more than was already present. I daily drive this car and don't find it annoying. Of course of people's experiences and tolerances may vary.
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