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      01-17-2013, 09:11 PM   #1
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Word to the wise on E85

I know allot of members on here have been running E85 with no problems and god knows I love the power of it, but I just had 4 injectors go bad.

Now these injectors only had about 16k miles on them before they went bad. I had them replaced under recall at 14k miles and the went bad at around 30k. Car has been tuned with JB3 and Procede since 10k miles and Cobb at 22k with E85 coming into play at 24k when they released ATR. Running a 40/60 mix. I mostly fill up with Shell 93 or any big name gas station if not available.

The dilemma I was is in with the Cobb was that I would only misfire under tune even the mildest tune. So when I went back to stock it would erase the codes and the car wouldn't misfire under the stock tune. I'm still under warranty.

So I called around to different dealerships around the area and found one that was willing to work on the car with the Cobb still installed. With the multiple misfire codes the first thing they replaced was the plugs (which I thought was the culprit) didn't solve the problem. So the tech did his thing and found that injectors 3, 4 5, and 6 were faulty. He replaced them and now I'm misfire free.

I know I'm gonna be getting the I've been running E85 for yadda yadda trouble free. My SA said that there are different batches of injectors out there, so my word to the wise is this...just be aware that prolonged use could potentially wear out the injectors quicker and this is definitely a costlier fix than plugs or coil packs if you're out of warranty.
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      01-17-2013, 10:12 PM   #2
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thanks for the heads up bud. who tuned ur car?
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      01-17-2013, 10:26 PM   #3
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Those injectors are rated at 200 PSI. There is a recall of the programing of the fuel pump that needed to be done by BMW.
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      01-17-2013, 10:42 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Maranello455 View Post
Those injectors are rated at 200 PSI. There is a recall of the programing of the fuel pump that needed to be done by BMW.
My car had all recalls up to date at the time of failure. Also these injectors get up to 2800 PSI. Not 200.
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      01-18-2013, 07:31 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by 2010BMW135i View Post
thanks for the heads up bud. who tuned ur car?
Cobb E30 map tweaked with their ATR software and numerous time spent logging and tweaking to make sure the car was happy. I usually log every couple of days to make sure the car is running happy and they never showed any sign of impending failure in the logs. No timing pulls, fuel trims and boost on target then bam misfire in cylinder 3, 4, 5, and 6 all injectors went bad at once.
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      01-18-2013, 10:27 AM   #6
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What evidence do you have to suggest, or conclude, E85 was the issue?

These injectors are known for going bad, hence the recalls.
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      01-18-2013, 11:22 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by n54door View Post
What evidence do you have to suggest, or conclude, E85 was the issue?

These injectors are known for going bad, hence the recalls.
E85 fuel is very dense adn does not burn completely. To put it in perspective, here in Germany when they rolled out E10 gas ADAC (German AAA) and other test companies stated clearly that E10 was not good and would eventually lead to problems. Such was the uproar from the german community that the German government had to suspend the addition of E10 gas to all german gas stations.

In the Europe sub-forum, it was discussed at lenght because they tried to "slide" it in without the service members noticing it. It backfired miserably.
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      01-18-2013, 11:33 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post
E85 fuel is very dense adn does not burn completely. To put it in perspective, here in Germany when they rolled out E10 gas ADAC (German AAA) and other test companies stated clearly that E10 was not good and would eventually lead to problems. Such was the uproar from the german community that the German government had to suspend the addition of E10 gas to all german gas stations.

In the Europe sub-forum, it was discussed at lenght because they tried to "slide" it in without the service members noticing it. It backfired miserably.
Indeed, it is a fuel that corrodes rubber (seals and lines), leaves a sticky residue, and has not been fully tested with our platform (and many other auto's), but what can be concluded about the cause/effect of 3 injectors going out at once as a result of using E85 fuel?

I would imagine many would be reporting similar incidents, but this is the first one I've seen where someone is linking injector failure to e85 fuel.


That said - I have some experience with E85 from my previous performance vehicle, and I can tell you, it is a very risky fuel to use to say the least.

My injectors were gummed up at the injector tips from the e85 residue and carbon/oil vapors mixing and building up. They looked like solid black drops hanging off the injector tips. It eventually caused a lean condition and popped my engine. I wonder if this is the case here.
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      01-18-2013, 11:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Indeed, it is a fuel that corrodes rubber (seals and lines), leaves a sticky residue, and has not been fully tested with our platform (and many other auto's), but what can be concluded about the cause/effect of 3 injectors going out at once as a result of using E85 fuel?

I would imagine many would be reporting similar incidents, but this is the first one I've seen where someone is linking injector failure to e85 fuel.


That said - I have some experience with E85 from my previous performance vehicle, and I can tell you, it is a very risky fuel to use to say the least.

My injectors were gummed up at the injector tips from the e85 residue and carbon/oil vapors mixing and building up. They looked like solid black drops hanging off the injector tips. It eventually caused a lean condition and popped my engine. I wonder if this is the case here.
Well most pumps already have E10 or 10% ethanol in them... Maybe some of the 93 octanes there in Texas don't but I can say for sure that our 91 and 87 octane fuels definitely do and have for a while (some stations are now having stickers on em with a warning, this includes higher end brands like chevron.)
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      01-18-2013, 01:22 PM   #10
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must...have....e85.... haha gotta love warranty!
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      01-18-2013, 02:27 PM   #11
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Run a tank of straight 93 with a bottle of ethanol treatment every 2 or 3 weeks and it will help to alleviate some of the potential risks with e85. Notice I said "help" not eliminate.
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      01-18-2013, 02:50 PM   #12
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I stopped using E85, figured it wasn't really worth it to swipe the credit card twice to do two fill ups. Think car runs better with straight 93 with what I have done
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      01-18-2013, 03:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Indeed, it is a fuel that corrodes rubber (seals and lines), leaves a sticky residue, and has not been fully tested with our platform (and many other auto's), but what can be concluded about the cause/effect of 3 injectors going out at once as a result of using E85 fuel?

I would imagine many would be reporting similar incidents, but this is the first one I've seen where someone is linking injector failure to e85 fuel.


That said - I have some experience with E85 from my previous performance vehicle, and I can tell you, it is a very risky fuel to use to say the least.

My injectors were gummed up at the injector tips from the e85 residue and carbon/oil vapors mixing and building up. They looked like solid black drops hanging off the injector tips. It eventually caused a lean condition and popped my engine. I wonder if this is the case here.
Usually when most members on here have misfires due to bad injectors it normally starts in one cylinder and you can see timing drops in your logs. When I was running 40/50 sometimes 50/50 E85 I would log almost 3-4 times a week with 3 back to back runs. I had perfect timing, spot on boost, and fuel trims in check.

Then all of a sudden bam I had 4 bad injectors. No warning at all. No misfires starting in one cylinder then spreading. To me the common denominator was fuel.

Can it all be due to E85, I can't say for 100% but I believe they contributed to premature failure.

Also to those that say that's what the recalls are for I had these injectors replaced under recall. My SA also said that he's seen cases that when they performed the recalls they would scan the injectors stock number and according to BMW that injector was part of the good batch, only to see that injector fail 6 months later. So he said with injectors it's tough to predict if you have a good batch.

Am I condoning the use of E85? No. But I wouldn't run it as my DD fuel. I plan on using it again but only for something like a track day.
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      01-19-2013, 08:24 AM   #14
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An interesting site for finding places that don't have eth in their fuels. I can't swear by it but the two listed around me that were on this list didn't have it so.

http://pure-gas.org/
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      09-13-2013, 12:21 PM   #15
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Ran 30/70 e85/93 for 2 or 3 months had to replace:
1 LFPS
12 plugs
6 injectors
Just sayin

yea I had 50k on the OEM plugs so I just replaced those because it was time.
I brought the ones from BMS. 11.74ea.When the car was at bmw they said those were after market and no CPO work/injectors would be warrantied because those are aftermarket so i'd need to replace those with BMW's ones that Bosch makes witch are the same ones from the BMS website. so that was a new set of 6 for $140 FML

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Last edited by Grip&Go; 09-26-2013 at 10:29 AM.
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      09-13-2013, 12:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
What evidence do you have to suggest, or conclude, E85 was the issue?
My injector went bad when I was running 3 gallons of E85 with 93 for a month straight. Biggest pain in the ass ever. Stopped using it and just ran 93 octane and have yet to have any problems fuel wise. I don't really think it is just a coincidence....
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      09-13-2013, 08:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grip&Go View Post
Ran 30/70 e85/93 for 2 or 3 months had to replace:
1 LFPS
12 plugs
6 injectors
Just sayin

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You swap spark plugs twice within 3 months??!!

Who advised you of that? I think its nearly impossible to foul plugs in a months worth of driving (1500 miles?)

I've been running e85 mix (minimum of 5 gallons) in my car for 10 months now, I daily drive my car. No issues.

I think some of you guys having issues with e85 is because your car wasnt in prime condition. Similar to some people that get tuned and start getting fault codes and blame the tune, not the condition of their motor.
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      09-14-2013, 03:37 AM   #18
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Hahaha...yeah, well this one time...I just mentioned the word ethanol and my car went in to limp mode!

Obviously just kidding but...

A car running high percentages of E85 can have issues if the injector temps on certain revs of injectors gets too high....it can melt the internal filter.

That said...do your homework...some good info in this thread and some not so much.

To the OP...shopping around for a dealer that would work on your car with a Cobb tune still installed? Gotta question that judgement call...why didn't you simply remove it as opposed to taking the risk of having your car flagged?

Full disclosure.....I run 100% E85 and have done a crap ton of reading/work on it...and literally know this fuel system inside and out.
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      09-14-2013, 10:44 AM   #19
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With E85 I drove west and my injectors failed. Now I only drive east and no issues.
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      09-14-2013, 10:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ View Post
Hahaha...yeah, well this one time...I just mentioned the word ethanol and my car went in to limp mode!

To the OP...shopping around for a dealer that would work on your car with a Cobb tune still installed? Gotta question that judgement call...why didn't you simply remove it as opposed to taking the risk of having your car flagged?

.


Because when you uninstall the Cobb flash tune ie flash it back to stock, it automatically erases any codes. I couldn't get the codes to pop up under the stock tune hence I had to keep the tune in with the codes on when I took it to the dealership. And dealerships won't do any warranty work without codes. It's all in my original post, Also I called around meaning on the phone they didn't know who they were talking to.

To everyone saying I've been running E85 for so long yada yada yada. I'm not trying to dissuade from using it, all I'm saying is if you are out of warranty there is a chance that you can have multiple injectors fail suddenly which is a costly fix if you're not expecting it. I logged my car multiple times a week when I was running E85 daily and had no signs of failure. No misfires, fuel pressures in check (LPFP and HPFP), Fuel trims in check (STFT and LTFT) and then bam 4 failed injectors.

As I stated in my original post, there are multiple batches of injectors out there and there is a chance that you can have two different batches on your car. Some batches might be more sensitive to E85 than others. So if you can't afford to pay, I suggest not playing with E85.
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      09-14-2013, 01:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ervgotti01
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ View Post
Hahaha...yeah, well this one time...I just mentioned the word ethanol and my car went in to limp mode!

To the OP...shopping around for a dealer that would work on your car with a Cobb tune still installed? Gotta question that judgement call...why didn't you simply remove it as opposed to taking the risk of having your car flagged?

.


Because when you uninstall the Cobb flash tune ie flash it back to stock, it automatically erases any codes. I couldn't get the codes to pop up under the stock tune hence I had to keep the tune in with the codes on when I took it to the dealership. And dealerships won't do any warranty work without codes. It's all in my original post, Also I called around meaning on the phone they didn't know who they were talking to.

To everyone saying I've been running E85 for so long yada yada yada. I'm not trying to dissuade from using it, all I'm saying is if you are out of warranty there is a chance that you can have multiple injectors fail suddenly which is a costly fix if you're not expecting it. I logged my car multiple times a week when I was running E85 daily and had no signs of failure. No misfires, fuel pressures in check (LPFP and HPFP), Fuel trims in check (STFT and LTFT) and then bam 4 failed injectors.

As I stated in my original post, there are multiple batches of injectors out there and there is a chance that you can have two different batches on your car. Some batches might be more sensitive to E85 than others. So if you can't afford to pay, I suggest not playing with E85.
+1 agreed, e85 allows for more aggressive boost and timing, which in turn will accelerate the wear on certain parts of the car, if you are not prepared to take care of something down the line if it fails, you should stay away from e85 as it hasn't been determined if it does have a negative effect of certain parts of the engine or fuel system.
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      09-14-2013, 02:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmacc View Post
+1 agreed, e85 allows for more aggressive boost and timing, which in turn will accelerate the wear on certain parts of the car, if you are not prepared to take care of something down the line if it fails, you should stay away from e85 as it hasn't been determined if it does have a negative effect of certain parts of the engine or fuel system.
I am tempted to follow your route. What should I be aware of? And what route would you suggest to run full e85?
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