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      01-17-2013, 03:38 PM   #23
str8shot
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In my experience, they DO wear faster in cold weather.

I had some BF g-force sports on my old VW 337, and the rubber would actually chuck away. I think they actually had more rolling resistance in the winter than when they were grippy.
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      01-18-2013, 10:25 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
IF it will be colder than 7'C - yes, I would use snow tires! Snow or no snow.
The "snowflake M+S" symbol is not a snow tire thing, all season tires carry this marking as well. Thats why they're "all season" not summer.
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      01-18-2013, 10:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluflyer06 View Post
The "snowflake M+S" symbol is not a snow tire thing, all season tires carry this marking as well. Thats why they're "all season" not summer.
Snow tires will out perform all season tires - in all winter conditions.

Summer tires will out perform all season tires - in the dry and wet (summer conditions).

All season tires are a compromise tire. They will not stop as well in the wet or dry in the summer as good as summer tires will. AND they will not perform as well as dedicated snow tires in winter conditions. That is why some people call them "no season" tires.
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      01-18-2013, 10:32 AM   #26
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I dont know if this is the case for the contis but in cold weather some summer tires will actually start to break down...ie the rubber contracts and begins to crack.
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      01-18-2013, 12:45 PM   #27
sluflyer06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Snow tires will out perform all season tires - in all winter conditions.

Summer tires will out perform all season tires - in the dry and wet (summer conditions).

All season tires are a compromise tire. They will not stop as well in the wet or dry in the summer as good as summer tires will. AND they will not perform as well as dedicated snow tires in winter conditions. That is why some people call them "no season" tires.
Can't say I completely agree. I've ran a set of Blizzak WS-60's before and they are horrendous on pavement that is not snow covered, they're very unstable, brake and cornering are severely compromised as well.

I do agree summer tires in warm weather are far superior on both dry/wet pavement. But all seasons seem to be the way to go in regions with freezing temperatures but very little snowfall. I don't know how anyone would say snow tires are superior in any cold climates unless the area gets regular snowfalls.
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      01-18-2013, 12:57 PM   #28
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      01-18-2013, 01:06 PM   #29
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It goes without saying I don't even need to watch videos 2&3 because clearly on snow and ice covered roads snow tires are superior which I've already said myself.

So that leaves us with video #1 which I shouldn't even have to point out is not only computer generated, contains no actual data, AND is produced by a tire company with the bottom line in mind.

With that said, I would agree based on logic that at freezing temperatures the tread on a snow tire is going to be more pliable, however that's only 1 variable and based on personal experience in more than one vehicle on many sets of tires in all conditions...full snow tires on cold but non snow or ice covered roads handle exceptionally poorly, inspire no confidence and are extremely unstable as they are designed primarily for relatively low speed driving on snow covered surfaces.

While you may get snow in your area, there are numerous regions of the world where temperatures regularly fall into sub freezing yet we receive little to no snow throughout an entire winter. In these areas I challenge you to find any cars running snow tires, because you won't find them as its neither done nor recommended by anyone.
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      01-18-2013, 01:22 PM   #30
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Geezzzz... Ok, watch this one starting at 06:18

LISTEN to what he says at 06:28 about AS tires vs Winter tires in the wet...

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      01-18-2013, 02:52 PM   #31
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I think you guys have gone off the deep end. Again. I will say again that I have used all types of tires. I lived for the first 30 years of driving in snow country. I had snow tires including studded snow tires but I mainly used all season tires. I've driven a 4 wheel drive SUV through 12 inches of snow on all season tires. There is absolutely no way anybody in Atlanta needs snow tires. That is silly talk. All seasons are plenty for those of us who barely go below freezing at night. If it snows in the south you stay home for a day and let it melt. With all seasons, the only reason to stay home is the crazies that don't have a clue what they're doing.

I have Michelin Pilot Super Sport (if that is the latest recommended by C&D) on my bimmer out in the lot right now. I am not the least bit concerned driving it back and forth to work on these tires in the cold. They feel great. If we get adverse weather, I will drive the SUV with it's all seasons. The biggest reason to drive the SUV is the crazies may run into me and I'd rather that happen on the 7 year old SUV. We don't get enough snow to worry about around here. I never completely covers the road.

If I ever have a tire crack due to temperature difference it will be the last tire I buy from that manufacturer. That looks like urban myth stuff to me - but I use Tire Rack as a source too. Certainly in the South, we should not have to worry about our tires cracking due to the temperature difference. If they do, there is something badly wrong with the tire.

The soft versus hard compound and comments about traction difference in the cold and summer tires are unsafe in the winter are another bunch of BS. The practical difference in compound is very nearly zero. If the on-ramp is clear of traffic when I go home, I will be on my bimmer like normal and it's tires will hold. I've done it before and I hope traffic permits me to do it today.

You guys really need to get more real life experience and stop believing everything you read. I've got a feeling I've been driving longer than some of you have been alive. But if you want to flame, flame away. Been-there-done-that trumps reading about it in my book.

Jim
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      01-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #32
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I definitely do not recommend using summer tires in cold conditions, regardless of snow cover. Below 40F or so most summer tires really turn into concrete and have little to no grip. They're too stiff to grip the road. By comparison, I can still push my fingernail into my winter tires in 20F weather and they still have some give. It's as much about temperature as it is the tread pattern.

So far I haven't had any problems stacking a few sets of Star Specs or RS2s in the garage for storage. No problems in the spring back into autocross season, no cracking issues.

My STI was fine with good all season tires (I had RE960AS on it). Winters still do better, but it was more than acceptable.

We have a lot of weather fluctuation in Indiana and I have run my winters in 60-65F weather and my summers in 30-35F weather. Starspecs, RS2s, RE050 RFTs, RE070... All of them have trouble with traction, trigger ABS, and generally I don't feel it is safe before 40F or so.

Jim, perhaps it rarely gets down to those temperatures for you, so you may be ok, but here in Indiana driving on summer tires is insane in the winter.

I also agree winter tires compromise performance in warmer conditions. Really, it has to be cold enough to get the benefit, so it isn't needed for people in southern states. They're not great for 75mph cruising with a cross wind in 50F weather.
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      01-19-2013, 05:09 PM   #33
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I would just say that if you live somewhere where the temperature will remain below freezing for more than a few days you should not be driving on summer tires.
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      01-19-2013, 09:12 PM   #34
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Atlanta is about like SC where I live. Average winter temperatures are highs in the 50s and lows around freezing. I have and will continue to use my bimmer with summer tires on it in these conditions as long as it is dry. If the temperature will be well above freezing, I will drive it in the wet in the winter, at these temperatures, too. I do not drive especially cautiously and I never see the stability control kicking on. I never see stability control unless I am in an autocross (where I generally run with the DTS in the partial off position). It's easier to trigger the stability control in the 135i due to the greater power. But I don't think tire compound makes much difference there either. Too heavy throttle is the issue, not the tires.

When I lived in Pittsburgh PA, Philadelphia, Omaha, and Kansas City, I drove on all season tires. I do not think summer tires are reasonable for daily drivers in these cities. On a nice winter day, they would be fine IMHO, but you cannot count on these conditions. In snow or potential icy conditions I would not advocate anybody driving on summer tires in cities this far or further north and I never have.

I used winter tires including with studs back in the days before radial tires. I think they were a good idea then but radials added traction to all sorts of tires. I believe all seasons are fine unless you regularly drive in deep snow. Then you need snow tires or chains. You give up some traction with all seasons but only in conditions where you should be driving carefully anyway. I've done it for decades including an occasional ~1,000 mile trip in the winter. They work fine, just remember they are not majic. With snow tires you could push slightly harder but would still need to be careful. Other traffic is very likely to slow you down to the point where all seasons in good shape will be fine.

But I still maintain that a car like mine, driven only on "nice days" in the winter is fine with summer tires in SC or points further south. Any difference in grip is undetectable even driving a little agressive on ramps. Tire rack has done good tests on slick conditions, however, and that is a very different story. Summer tires are just too limited. You need at least all seasons when the weather gets icy or there is significant snow on the ground. But for those of us in the South, waiting for it to melt is a valid option. It typically takes less than 24 hours. I just use my SUV (rear wheel drive with all seasons) when it gets bad out.

Jim
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      01-19-2013, 09:20 PM   #35
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By the way, I did hit the entrance ramp pretty hard on the way home Friday. I was following a Suburu with the hot turbo motor. I was surprised that he could go faster on the ramp than me. I do not know if it was my summer tires or if the hot Subie is just pretty good in the turns. But stability control did not kick on and I was moving along nicely. The temperature was not that low, maybe 50.

When it is close to freezing or below I drive significantly more cautiously regardless of the vehicle or its tires. I am not worried about the compound of my tires, I am worried about ice.

Jim
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      02-01-2013, 12:41 AM   #36
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I was experiencing a lot of traction loss with the summer tires on my 1 in very cold but dry conditions. The snow tires definitely grip better in all cold weather scenarios (Blizzak LM-25s). My assumption would be that the summer tire would wear faster in the cold weather because you would experience more slippage which causes excess wear on the tire. I mean, you could take it easy on the throttle, but where's the fun in that?
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