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      02-11-2013, 05:02 AM   #1
SteveAZ
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Prothane rear subframe bushings?

I'm getting ready to replace these and I started searching after getting a quote from Powerflex for $299.

Has anybody tried these for $179?

I know you often get what you pay for, but they're both urethane, they both have steel inserts, and look very similar...the one thing I do notice is that it appears as though Prothane's front and rear bushings are two piece and Powerflex's front are two piece and rears are one piece?

Are these new to market and Powerflex didn't have any competition aso we get hit with the BMW tax or is it an inferior product?

Prothane...


Powerflex...
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      02-11-2013, 12:28 PM   #2
uberschnell
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Are you looking at these simply from a price standpoint or from an install standpoint?

Did some research and there isn't a ton of feedback on Prothane, but what I have seen is fairly positive.
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      02-11-2013, 12:41 PM   #3
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I don't know anything about either set of urethane bushings, but I was able to purchase my M3 rear sub frame bushings for $240 shipped. There is lots of information out there about the M3 sub frame bushings.

Unless you just want to go with urethane bushings, the M3 bushings are comparable in costs.
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      02-11-2013, 12:44 PM   #4
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1Addicts member Elsabor67 installed them on his 135i. He said they did not totally get rid of the movement of the rear axle. In the end he installed M3 rear subframe bushings. Just as I have. I really can not say how much better my car drives now with the M bushings in the rear axle. Totally worth the money.
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      02-11-2013, 02:23 PM   #5
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If you will install them please share your opinion...
I think they should be good as Powerflex. Though all aftermarket options can cause to much vibrations to the cabin.
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      02-11-2013, 03:18 PM   #6
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Gents,

The ones I had installed were the powerflex bushing inserts. I was not satisfied with the way the felt at all. Now, being that these are solid, the only concern that I would have is that they are a 2 piece bushing with a one piece cylinder in the center. I would still be concerned with that separation between the top and bottom piece would make me a bit uncomfortable.

If I was you and this is just my opinion, I would do it right the first time and install the M3 bushings. The stoutness and solid feel of the M3 bushes are well worth the money and really transforms the the rear end.

One last thing, if you don't plan to track the car on a occaisonal basis, I would not do the poly bushings. They are very rigid.
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      02-11-2013, 03:45 PM   #7
SteveAZ
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Not debating doing the rear sub frame bushings...that's a given...just the bushings I use.

I am definitely not looking to cut any corners, going through the trouble of doing this I definitely want to do it right. That said, saving a few bucks isn't worth it if it's a compromise. Inserts are not an option, don't see why anybody would want to add those to their worn stock bushings...to each their own.

It seem as though the Powerflex are over priced, possibly due to lack of competition? However, if they are superior then so be it.

I'm curious about the holes in one set of the Prothane bushings that can be seen in the picture above, I wonder if this was done for vibration or to soften them up a bit?

As for them being two piece, dunno :shrug: maybe so energy (vibration) isn't tranferred through a 1 piece bushing? Powerflex is pretty popular and gets good feedback and rears are one piece and fronts are 2 piece.

...and yes, I plan to track the car...first track day is March 8th.
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      02-11-2013, 04:10 PM   #8
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Since it is relevant, here is another alternative to M3 bushings incase someone wanst options
http://www.akgmotorsport.com/catalog...ion%2FBushings


These are one piece & stiffer, but the price is the same as M3 parts.

I have my eyes on these ones because the reviews on e92 and m3 forums say that stiffer bushings do not cause much extra noise. The only risk is that we have e82 and not e9x so no extra noise may not be true

Other alternative are from Turner motorsport
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      02-11-2013, 04:15 PM   #9
uberschnell
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I know that not all eurothane is created equal, so that could be one difference.

The fact that they are two piece means they will be easy to install, which could mean saving 5 or 6 hundred by doing the install yourself. You would need to drop the sub frame pretty far to do M3 front inserts.
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      02-11-2013, 05:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ View Post
I know you often get what you pay for, but they're both urethane, they both have steel inserts, and look very similar...the one thing I do notice is that it appears as though Prothane's front and rear bushings are two piece and Powerflex's front are two piece and rears are one piece?
Both designs have flanges top and bottom. I am not sure how you could install such a bushing if it truly was 1 piece. I found another image of the Prothane bushings that actually shows that the urethane is split down the middle. They appear actually to consist of 5 pieces - 2 urethane, 2 washers, 1 core.

Name:  Prothane.png
Views: 2348
Size:  112.3 KB

This is splitting not only bushings, but hairs ...

The M3 subframe bushings provide an incredible improvement to the suspension and allow the front tires to actually work. As I have posted previously, the OE bushings provide passive rear steer, which forces the car into understeer near the limit and severely abuses the front tires. Remarkably there is virtually no increase in NVH with the M3 bushings. In short, the are excellent (if not perfect) on the 135i. When something works this well, I suggest looking no further.
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      02-11-2013, 05:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post

The M3 subframe bushings provide an incredible improvement to the suspension and allow the front tires to actually work. As I have posted previously, the OE bushings provide passive rear steer, which forces the car into understeer near the limit and severely abuses the front tires. Remarkably there is virtually no increase in NVH with the M3 bushings. In short, the are excellent (if not perfect) on the 135i. When something works this well, I suggest looking no further.

+1. I couldn't have said any better myself. Here is my review of the M3 bushings. They really makes the entire car feel solid and precise.


Dackel's replacement of rear suspension OE bushings with M3 ones…
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=638163
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      02-11-2013, 05:33 PM   #12
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I'm going to be the lone contrarian here... to me the M3 bushings are not enough.

I have the M3 bushings on my car as well as coil-overs and all the M3 suspension bits other than the rear lower control arms. Yet I can feel a lot of flex under load in long sweeping turns. I with I had gone with solid bushings instead of the M3 ones...

The install is more expensive than the bushings, so it's important to make the right choice from the get-go.
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      02-11-2013, 06:39 PM   #13
SteveAZ
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As to the "5 piece", yes you are technically correct, I was only referring to the urethane pieces. Powerflex's front bushings also are 5 piece.

As to stiffness, my experience has been that when it comes to urethane, the color typically is an indication of hardness, both are yellow, but of course I'm sure density varies between manufacturers.

As to the M3 bushings...my only two reservations about those...
-They are rubber and steel...rubber in my experience degrades quicker in dryer hot climates...say...Arizona!
-while not a huge consideration, the 1 piece fronts are not as appealing as the 2 piece from an installation perspective as long as there is no compromise in performance.

Who makes those red ones? Are they 2 piece...kind of looks like it? No steel bushings and no steel washers?
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      02-11-2013, 08:44 PM   #14
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Red are from AKG using polyurethane or derlin-like they rate is a bit stiffer than OEM m3 but its not hard as full derlin or solid aluminum
on second look they do look 2 piece.
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      02-11-2013, 08:50 PM   #15
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I just installed the Powerflex full bushings on mine, and they have completely transformed the rear-end of this car. I can't comment on whether the M3 ones are better or not, but I have nothing but positive things about the powerflex ones.
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      02-11-2013, 09:31 PM   #16
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Hmmm, those AKG bushings are 90D and recommended for track use only....

I'm guessing the NVH is kind of high and while stiffer is better, thinking you can also over do it. It's always hard trying sort out the manufactures literature but based on AKG's own literature polyurethane seems the better way to go for a variety of reasons.

I'm thinking I may actually give the Prothane bushings a try. I'm curious as to some of there design features but upon receiving them I'm going to test the hardness, deflection. They have a lifetime warranty and since I'm doing the install...not a huge deal if I have to replace them, but would rather not. The first time will be the hardest simply due to trying to remove the OEM bushings, the urethane should be a cake walk from that perspective.

The Powerflex bushings drawback would be the one piece rears...the deformation on install and that'd be a pain to remove.

As for a review, I'll give one in relation to stock but obviously would have no perspective on the M3 or Powerflex.
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      02-11-2013, 11:17 PM   #17
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Ordered the Prothane, will inspect once they arrive and if I don't like, will ship them back. Otherwise will install and report back.
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      02-12-2013, 01:19 AM   #18
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Goodluck. It would be expensive to reverse the install
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      02-12-2013, 01:23 AM   #19
SteveAZ
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Thanks...guess somebody has to take the plunge....

If they're quality and it works out, then it'll be another nice option for the community. Since I'm DIYing and the hardest part is removing the stockers...not really expensive at all. Hoping I don't have to do it twice, but if I do, I'll bet the second time goes much quicker

BTW..."When something works this well, I suggest looking no further." I get that statement but where would we be if everyone applied that principle?
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      02-12-2013, 02:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yandy View Post
I just installed the Powerflex full bushings on mine, and they have completely transformed the rear-end of this car. I can't comment on whether the M3 ones are better or not, but I have nothing but positive things about the powerflex ones.
how about vibrations and noises?
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      02-12-2013, 02:35 AM   #21
RimasRS
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OP please make some photos and post your impressions
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      02-12-2013, 08:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RimasRS View Post
how about vibrations and noises?
There's obviously going to be more vibrations and noise than stock. However, not as much as you may think. The car's still perfectly drivable, and harshness is really not bad. Going over bad stretches of road, potholes, will exaggerate it though, they're definitely not stock in that sense.
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