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      04-19-2013, 08:28 AM   #1
str8shot
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Ideal alignment specs for mixed daily driving and the occasional auto-x

With the upcoming purchase of new tires, I'm going to have an alignment preformed.

I've currently got excessive camber wear on the front insides:





I'm assuming the toe must be off a bit, but I have no idea what the current camber is set at.

The rears had weird wear as well (middle was worn out with good shoulders yet), but I believe that was due to over inflation.

Does anyone have ideal alignment specs for spirited daily driving with the occasional auto-x?

At nearly $1100 a pop for tires, I'm looking to get as much life out of them as I can.
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      04-27-2013, 10:55 AM   #2
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Bump... I'm in the same boat.

Karl.
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      04-28-2013, 02:43 PM   #3
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are you on stock suspension...I don't think you can get enough front camber on stock suspenion to get that kind of wear; I'd assume it's too much front toe-in. Here's what I just got my alingment specs to:

2012 135i, M-sport, Arc-8's...all else stock.
Front Rear
Toe 0 1/16" in
Camber -0.5 -1.9

I plan on getting front M3 control arms and Dinan plates to get -2.0 camber up front as well (-0.5 was the max they could get)...-2.0 should be fine on the street IF you have enough spirited driving to help even the wear on the outer portions.
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      04-28-2013, 02:59 PM   #4
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I've been pretty happy with -1.9f/-1.2r camber with almost zero toe in the front and 1/8" to in in the rear. Also, I had the exact same wear pattern on my last set of PSS's and thought it was do to over inflation. My tire guy (with 30+ years of experience and his own race team) gave me some explanation for why the wear was actually the result of under-inflation. Something to do with the contact patch deforming under load. It was opposite of everything I've heard in the past. I upped the pressure and so far so good.
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      04-28-2013, 03:43 PM   #5
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Very interesting thread... Where is the gold point for dd and auto-x or track
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      04-29-2013, 09:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by first350 View Post
are you on stock suspension...I don't think you can get enough front camber on stock suspenion to get that kind of wear; I'd assume it's too much front toe-in. Here's what I just got my alingment specs to:

2012 135i, M-sport, Arc-8's...all else stock.
Front Rear
Toe 0 1/16" in
Camber -0.5 -1.9

I plan on getting front M3 control arms and Dinan plates to get -2.0 camber up front as well (-0.5 was the max they could get)...-2.0 should be fine on the street IF you have enough spirited driving to help even the wear on the outer portions.
I'm not. I have AST coilovers and Vorschlag adjustable top plates.
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      04-29-2013, 06:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8shot View Post
I'm not. I have AST coilovers and Vorschlag adjustable top plates.
I'd go for -2.0 camber front and rear, 0 toe front, 0 to 1/16" toe in rear; less toe in will give better rotation...but know that you'll want to be more careful at higher speeds. Also with 0 toe in the front the car tries to track to more grooves in the road for street driving.
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      04-29-2013, 07:11 PM   #8
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In my opinion, you're not going to do enough AX to justify a setting that will equalize the wear for both AX and street. Whatever setting you use, will end up favoring street on a daily driven car.

On my MZ4 Coupe, I drive it once a week for about 30 miles, then the rest of the time it spends on the track. At current setting of 2.5 camber front, 1/16" toe-out front, 1.9 camber rear, 1/16" toe-in rear, given my current driving situation, front and rear are wearing just evenly for my R-Comps with a slight increased inside wear for my street tires (that also occasionally see some track time). Car currently has very mild static understeer in mid corner despite the massive stagger (245F/275R). Next time I get corner balanced, it's going to 3 degrees up front.

If this car is driven DAILY, there'll be no tire left up front in 8,000 miles due to the 2.5 camber and slight toe-out.

If you're on camber plates, I'd suggest getting the alignment shop to do 2 alignment for you, one for street at -.7 camber with 1/16 toe in, another one at -2 camber without disturbing the toe. This will likely result in a 1/16 toe-out. Leave the rear at -1.5 to 2 (it's a pain in the rear, pun intended, to adjust the rear camber regularly) with 1/16 toe-in. This will result in the outside and inside wearing faster than the middle, and you're going to think you're over-inflated but you're really not. But at least bot the outside and the inside will wear evenly. Have them mark the camber plates for both settings. Then on track/AX weekends, while you're out swapping tires, put the camber plate on the higher negative camber setting. Put the camber back when you swap back to street tires.

If you can't or won't have more than one camber setting despite having camber plates, well...Why have camber plates? But if you don't have camber plates? Set the front at about -1.2-1.5, with 1/16th toe in. Sure, the car's not going to set any blazing lap times, and you'll likely still see some outer edge wear, but that'll even out after some street driving (because the toe-in and camber will sort of cancel each other out).
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      04-29-2013, 07:39 PM   #9
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Mine is set to

Front
Camber -2.5
Toe 0

Rear
Camber -1.5
Toe +0.5mm

Daily driven and track about once a month and wear is nearly even. Could maybe do with slightly more camber.
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      04-30-2013, 09:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
In my opinion,

If this car is driven DAILY, there'll be no tire left up front in 8,000 miles due to the 2.5 camber and slight toe-out.
Nonsense. My Mazda was set at -2.5* w/ 1/8th" toe out up front and it had perfect wear even being a front heavy FWD car. That was mixed DD/AutoX. I got 20k+ miles out of Star specs and Hankook RS2's.
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      04-30-2013, 12:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Nonsense. My Mazda was set at -2.5* w/ 1/8th" toe out up front and it had perfect wear even being a front heavy FWD car. That was mixed DD/AutoX. I got 20k+ miles out of Star specs and Hankook RS2's.
Bet you a swift ss kick that the Mazda has A-Arms up front instead of McPherson struts.
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      05-01-2013, 03:30 PM   #12
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That's a toe issue in the pictures, definitely not camber. I run -2.5 on the street all day long with no wear issues. Not too extreme, but certainly helps a ton in the front-end department. Just enough to aid tire life/overheating on the track as well.
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      05-02-2013, 01:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Bet you a swift ss kick that the Mazda has A-Arms up front instead of McPherson struts.
Same exact setup as these cars. McStrut front, multilink rear. Everyone who drove my car praised it for it's good road manners, as well as it's sharp, direct turn-in/balance.
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      05-02-2013, 02:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Bet you a swift ss kick that the Mazda has A-Arms up front instead of McPherson struts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Same exact setup as these cars. McStrut front, multilink rear. Everyone who drove my car praised it for it's good road manners, as well as it's sharp, direct turn-in/balance.
The NA/NB miatas are all double wishbones front and rear....the NC changed to multi-link in the rear.
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      05-02-2013, 09:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
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The NA/NB miatas are all double wishbones front and rear....the NC changed to multi-link in the rear.
I am perfectly aware. Please note my post when I mentioned "Front heavy, FWD Mazda". It was a Mazda3, not a Miata, not sure where you got that impression from? Take my word when I say that after more than a few years of racing, and modifying cars, I can know the difference between a wishbone and Mcstrut suspension.
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      07-02-2013, 09:47 PM   #16
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So the car goes in tomorrow.

I'm going to ask for:

Front
As much equal negative camber both sides will provide, or -2.75-3 degrees
0 Toe

Rear
As much equal negative camber both sides will provide
1/16 Toe in

Look good? Gonna be Dunlop Z2's.
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      07-03-2013, 07:20 PM   #17
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Here's what I ended up doing. I really, really hope it doesn't kill the tires right away. It'd be great to get 20k out of them:
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      07-30-2013, 10:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8shot View Post
Here's what I ended up doing. I really, really hope it doesn't kill the tires right away. It'd be great to get 20k out of them:
So how's the car handling with this specs? Thanks
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      07-31-2013, 04:10 PM   #19
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3k miles and 11 AutoX

Tires are half way gone , just rotate rears with fronts, rears were pretty beaten in the middle
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      08-14-2013, 04:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
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So how's the car handling with this specs? Thanks
Handles pretty good. I get more "wander" on the highway when hitting cracks, etc, but overall it's not too bad.

Still have a lot of under steer at auto-x. Pretty sure I was out driving the tires, though.

Wear doesn't appear to be too bad as of yet...
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      08-15-2013, 10:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8shot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everfly View Post
So how's the car handling with this specs? Thanks
Handles pretty good. I get more "wander" on the highway when hitting cracks, etc, but overall it's not too bad.

Still have a lot of under steer at auto-x. Pretty sure I was out driving the tires, though.

Wear doesn't appear to be too bad as of yet...
You under steer because I'm guessing you havnt replaced the rear subframe bushings with m3 variants... Upgrading the lower arms and bushings is the best thing you can do for this cars handling. Not to mention the front arms give you -.75 camber for free as am added bonus.
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      05-21-2014, 08:23 AM   #22
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Handles pretty good. I get more "wander" on the highway when hitting cracks, etc, but overall it's not too bad.

Still have a lot of under steer at auto-x. Pretty sure I was out driving the tires, though.

Wear doesn't appear to be too bad as of yet...
Bringing this back from the dead. I've now put 6960 miles on the tires, and the fronts are nearly junk again. I had my car in the shop (I snapped a valve stem removing a frozen metal cap), and I had them flip the tires on the rims.

Had no idea they were this bad.

The outsides were the insides up until yesterday. You can see the abnormal camber wear. This is with zero toe as well. I typically run ~36-38 psi. Too much air? I'm going to flip them back to their original sides, and pull some camber out.

This was the drivers side, the camber wear is now on the outside since I had them flipped:




This was the passenger side.

You can see where a good 2"'s of tire isn't even making contact with the ground now...and it also started to wear past the tread compound (dark tread upper right).



F*cking pissed to say the least. I should've just run factory spec alignment.
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