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      07-03-2013, 03:01 AM   #1
sparoz
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Tire Upgrade - Pirelli Trofeo R

Just the start of the final upgrades - feedback after the next track day and hopefully August.
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      07-03-2013, 03:15 AM   #2
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looks sticky...
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      07-03-2013, 03:27 PM   #3
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can these be used as daily riders?
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      07-03-2013, 05:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simsims View Post
can these be used as daily riders?
Yes, if you are asking if they are road legal .

I have been trying find out the answer about issues with heat cycling on road but no one is replying, but thinking it through, it shouldn't be too much of a problem as the tire doesn't go to the sort of temperature as it will on track.

If you are in cold weather though, there is extra precaution on the tires. It becomes brittle below 5 degree C, and you are supposed to warm them up slowly back to 20 degree, otherwise it might crack. So, this is very much a summer tire.

It is surprisingly more quiet than the PSS (but I guess I had them for about 15k), and it just sticks, and turn in is brilliant. I think my PSS after a few track days become a bit hard and lose a bit of its grip. The ride is firmer, but actually communicates a lot better. I am loving the tires on the road, but will have to wait till I track them.
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      07-05-2013, 08:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Yes, if you are asking if they are road legal .

I have been trying find out the answer about issues with heat cycling on road but no one is replying, but thinking it through, it shouldn't be too much of a problem as the tire doesn't go to the sort of temperature as it will on track.

If you are in cold weather though, there is extra precaution on the tires. It becomes brittle below 5 degree C, and you are supposed to warm them up slowly back to 20 degree, otherwise it might crack. So, this is very much a summer tire.

It is surprisingly more quiet than the PSS (but I guess I had them for about 15k), and it just sticks, and turn in is brilliant. I think my PSS after a few track days become a bit hard and lose a bit of its grip. The ride is firmer, but actually communicates a lot better. I am loving the tires on the road, but will have to wait till I track them.
what size did you get, do they rub in stock size? (i heard they were larger than most same size tires)
how's price vs pss?

I don't drive my car in the winter. It is parked in the garage, but the garage door opens from time to time and the tires definitely get a wack of -30c cold air coming in from the garage door being open. Wonder if it'll just crack on the spot
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      07-06-2013, 04:54 AM   #6
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I only paid $300 more compare to the PSS quote. Of course it won't last as long! I am on stock size and the front is rubbing but I got the same when I had my PSS, so I think it will go once I don't a track day. It only rubs at certain angle and at about three quarter lock only in slow turns. My front wheels is about 9mm wider too so that might have made some difference.

However, I believe the different in price in the US might be more significant. You are not supposed to move the car if it falls below five degree.
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      07-06-2013, 03:07 PM   #7
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I ve tracked them on my GT3 and all i can say is the grip is unbelievable.
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      07-07-2013, 07:52 AM   #8
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I am looking forward to my track day. I am loving it regardless anyway, the turn-in is much more precise than the PSS.
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      07-07-2013, 12:34 PM   #9
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Do you think they can be "liveable" as the only tire if the car is not driven as a multipurpose DD but as a second car for fun purposes? I know you can't comment on how long they can last yet, I would be surprised if they could manage half of PSS anyway.

In a country where you enjoy 12 months of summer/spring temperatures, would there still be too much sacrifices (in ride quality, noise, wet traction etc.) with these Trofeo Rs vs. PSS, I wonder?
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      07-07-2013, 06:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Do you think they can be "liveable" as the only tire if the car is not driven as a multipurpose DD but as a second car for fun purposes? I know you can't comment on how long they can last yet, I would be surprised if they could manage half of PSS anyway.

In a country where you enjoy 12 months of summer/spring temperatures, would there still be too much sacrifices (in ride quality, noise, wet traction etc.) with these Trofeo Rs vs. PSS, I wonder?
It is early days so it would be interesting to see if the ride and noise maintain as the thread wears down. It is more quiet than PSS at the moment, and the stiffer side wall is definitely liveable. How long it will last will always be a question, and how quickly the tire deteriorate driving hard on B roads are still to be seen.

If it is a second car you only drive when there's no rain, I don't see any reason why you can have it over PSS. However, the thread it comes new is less than the thread remaining on my PSS.
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      07-16-2013, 07:04 AM   #11
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We have had some wet weather and I am surprised how well the tyres hold up in the wet. I always thought it would be scary, but haven't had a moment yet. I just drive normally, and of course I didn't do silly things like WOT in 2nd gear, but the tire is definitely good for DD.

The only thing I am getting used to is how much less brake I need to use on the road - ie unless I get up to speed, it is difficult to practice squeeze and ease as it take so little effort now to stop.
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      07-16-2013, 11:30 AM   #12
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Interesting tire! Are they significantly wider than same size PSS as well? I have a feeling that they will look like 255/275 PSS or even fatter from what I read.
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      08-09-2013, 06:18 AM   #13
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OP......have you been on the track yet? I'm thinking of buying a set for track use only.
But can't seem to find a 265/35/18 size for the front. Could I go for the 265/40/18 size?
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      08-09-2013, 10:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gs/e60/1m?
OP......have you been on the track yet? I'm thinking of buying a set for track use only.
But can't seem to find a 265/35/18 size for the front. Could I go for the 265/40/18 size?
Misses the track day last week as my work server crashed and was sorting out the aftermath.

Next one is 12/9 if not definitely 18/9. Front and rear threads are different. I am rubbing with 245s at 3/4 lock so probably 265/40s going to be worst.

Also it is apparently tedious installation as it is so installing on stock front may not be the best. You will probably need wider wheels.
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      09-12-2013, 05:39 AM   #15
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Went in the track today, but unfortunately only managed three hot laps - all PBs with the third lap 2 seconds faster than the PSS on a 1 minute track. However, looks like I picked up a puncture on lap 4, and still was going pretty quick for the last two laps.

When I pull back into the pits there was a puncture on the side wall of my front right, which ends the day very early for me. So, spend the next hour organising a tow truck and then the next two hours in the tow truck to get home.

There should be at least another second if not two with the tyres as I was really only driving 70-80% and there were plenty of grip left.
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      09-12-2013, 06:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
I have been trying find out the answer about issues with heat cycling on road but no one is replying, but thinking it through, it shouldn't be too much of a problem as the tire doesn't go to the sort of temperature as it will on track.
No need to worry about heat cycling on the Road.

I've had RS3s for the past 10k miles and I'm past the wear bars on my tires and they aren't heat cycled out yet. They are still fast, if not faster than new.
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      09-12-2013, 09:24 PM   #17
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No need to worry about heat cycling on the Road.

I've had RS3s for the past 10k miles and I'm past the wear bars on my tires and they aren't heat cycled out yet. They are still fast, if not faster than new.
Yeah, I drove 180km yesterday to the track and the temperature didn't raise much on the road, so no chance it will heat cycle out.

I should have taken temperatures on the tyres after the session, but too distracted by the deflated tyre. So, if it doesn't go over say 40 degree, it might not be a problem. It would be interesting to see how I go with one new tyre, but the others only have five hot laps on them.
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      09-13-2013, 03:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz
Went in the track today, but unfortunately only managed three hot laps - all PBs with the third lap 2 seconds faster than the PSS on a 1 minute track. However, looks like I picked up a puncture on lap 4, and still was going pretty quick for the last two laps.

When I pull back into the pits there was a puncture on the side wall of my front right, which ends the day very early for me. So, spend the next hour organising a tow truck and then the next two hours in the tow truck to get home.

There should be at least another second if not two with the tyres as I was really only driving 70-80% and there were plenty of grip left.
Sorry to hear about the puncture mishap
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      09-13-2013, 05:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Yeah, I drove 180km yesterday to the track and the temperature didn't raise much on the road, so no chance it will heat cycle out.

I should have taken temperatures on the tyres after the session, but too distracted by the deflated tyre. So, if it doesn't go over say 40 degree, it might not be a problem. It would be interesting to see how I go with one new tyre, but the others only have five hot laps on them.
It would be interesting to hear from a tire engineer on what change over temperature you need to achieve to officially put a heat cycle on a tire.

It isn't uncommon for me to see surface temps of around ~130F on the tire (~54C). And I'm just using an IR gun...the internal temperatures if taken with a pyrometer I bet they will be even higher.


Make sure you get the mold release and scrub the tire in. It seems like you've done that already since your drive...but I would suspect just given the fresh tread that the one tire may take a bit longer to get to temp
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      07-11-2014, 10:05 AM   #20
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Sparoz- would be curious to hear your feedback on the Trofeo Rs one year later -- specifically interested in durability, grip, wet & cold performance ... Strongly considering picking up a set for the track.
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      07-13-2014, 09:13 PM   #21
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Sparoz- would be curious to hear your feedback on the Trofeo Rs one year later -- specifically interested in durability, grip, wet & cold performance ... Strongly considering picking up a set for the track.
Durability - 10000km of road use and still have plenty of thread left, I am about 2 secs away from PB on the last run, but I think that's due to me being more cautious as I ran off track from the previous session. I haven't had a chance to look at my logs, but I have set aside some time to look at my logs on Friday before my track day this weekend. However, the time for the day didn't seem to be slowing from sessions to sessions during the day and the fastest time came later during the day. I did try to look after the temp of the tyre though so a maximum of 6 flyers to try to stop the heat cycles.

Grip - great, but a friend also got some Trofeo R for his 997, and he is not matching his 996 speeds on Hankooks Z221. However, you can't really use the Hankooks on road, but the Trofeo you can.

Wet performance - haven't had a wet session yet, but fine on road.

Cold performance - depends on what you meant by this - you get 90% grip after the first lap, which makes it very good for time attack. It is not supposed to work in very cold weather as it goes brittle - I am going to be on a track that is subzero this weekend, so I actually am trying to look for a tyre that is going to work.
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      07-13-2014, 09:51 PM   #22
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How many track days have you done on these so far?

From my reading on the Porsche forums I get the sense that these things are finicky in terms of managing pressures -- the Pirelli website suggests 2 bar HOT which is 29 psi. That means I'd be starting cold pressures low enough to make me concerned about damaging the tire, or coming in to tweak pressures after a few warmup laps, which seems like a pain for a recreational/enthusiast driver.

How much attention did you pay to the pressures?

Other question regards camber -- what are you doing for camber? The Porsche guys are reporting at least -2.5 ...

Thanks in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Durability - 10000km of road use and still have plenty of thread left, I am about 2 secs away from PB on the last run, but I think that's due to me being more cautious as I ran off track from the previous session. I haven't had a chance to look at my logs, but I have set aside some time to look at my logs on Friday before my track day this weekend. However, the time for the day didn't seem to be slowing from sessions to sessions during the day and the fastest time came later during the day. I did try to look after the temp of the tyre though so a maximum of 6 flyers to try to stop the heat cycles.

Grip - great, but a friend also got some Trofeo R for his 997, and he is not matching his 996 speeds on Hankooks Z221. However, you can't really use the Hankooks on road, but the Trofeo you can.

Wet performance - haven't had a wet session yet, but fine on road.

Cold performance - depends on what you meant by this - you get 90% grip after the first lap, which makes it very good for time attack. It is not supposed to work in very cold weather as it goes brittle - I am going to be on a track that is subzero this weekend, so I actually am trying to look for a tyre that is going to work.
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