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      11-29-2017, 08:26 PM   #1
rapter
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Car Stutters when driving off from stop

Fellow members,

New issue to me, I have tried the search function but no luck on the 1m forum, there are many topics about BMW acceleration stutter but non that address what I am experiencing.

When the car is cold, it starts normally, drives normally, accelerates normally.

During warm up (to final operating temp.) car is fine

Once the car is at its' maximum or normal operating temperature when accelerating normally from a standstill the car shudders, stutters and there is rumblings from the rear diff.

When the car is warmed up... it feels like there is an additional load on the car preventing it from accelerating (like someone attached a piano to the car). At times there are some noticeable "slow" transmission shifts but I am not sure if this is related or not.

Once rolling, there is no performance issue at all.

... Just a stutter and what sounds to me like diff rumblings from a take off.

Update: January 13th 2018:

Hello all,

To Update this thread, the issue with the car is the dual-mass flywheel assembly (self diagnosed).

When the car is running and in neutral there is a distinct flywheel chatter when you release the clutch pedal.

I invision that the stutter and vibrations through the chassis that I am feeling is the flywheel's inability to smooth out the power delivery of the straight 6.

I heard the flywheel chatter earlier in the car's life and dismissed it as normal M car idle noises, however the chatter is slightly worse now and I have the new symptom of the aforementioned stutter.

Is it safe to drive the car with the early signs and symptoms? What are the ill effects of driving the car over a prolonged time with the dual mass flywheel damage?

Last edited by rapter; 01-13-2018 at 04:37 PM.
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      11-30-2017, 12:29 PM   #2
E30 Racer
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How many miles are on the car? Maybe time for a walnut blasting to clean the intake valves?
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      11-30-2017, 01:35 PM   #3
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could be a number of things, maybe your trans fluid is old and at temp it isnt lubing correctly, or maybe the driveshaft recall issue?
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      11-30-2017, 01:49 PM   #4
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55,000 km on the car. Walnut blasting is a maybe.

I have the driveshaft recall notification but have not performed it yet. Maybe this is the issue.

I suspected the transmission fluid may need a flush.

I am hesitant to touch the rear diff fluid because a flush could cause more issues.

Taking it into the dealer Tuesday.

It is interesting that the sensation is only when the car is fully warmed up
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      11-30-2017, 08:32 PM   #5
rapter
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I am surprised no one else has this issue
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      12-01-2017, 11:55 AM   #6
etr2016
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Any update from your side? I've been following this waiting to see what the resolution is. I thankfully do not have this issue. Granted, I haven't driven my car in about 7 months....
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      12-01-2017, 12:01 PM   #7
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Have you checked for any error codes with a code reader? I would start there. It could be spark plugs, coils, high pressure fuel pump, walnut blast, boost leak, o2 sensors.
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      12-01-2017, 12:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormchaser7 View Post
Have you checked for any error codes with a code reader? I would start there. It could be spark plugs, coils, high pressure fuel pump, walnut blast, boost leak, o2 sensors.
Dealer has indicated this morning that the "clutch" is on its way out?

I find this incredible hard to believe given the amount of clutch travel I have +60% ... and I am an extremely excellent manual driver (no abuse or clutch slipping).

Could someone illuminate how a cold clutch operates fine and a hot clutch does not ?
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      12-01-2017, 02:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormchaser7 View Post
Have you checked for any error codes with a code reader? I would start there. It could be spark plugs, coils, high pressure fuel pump, walnut blast, boost leak, o2 sensors.
Dealer has indicated this morning that the "clutch" is on its way out?

I find this incredible hard to believe given the amount of clutch travel I have +60% ... and I am an extremely excellent manual driver (no abuse or clutch slipping).

Could someone illuminate how a cold clutch operates fine and a hot clutch does not ?
Yes. Clutch is like your brakes. The clutch material is like brake pads and pressure plate and flywheel are like your brake disk. When brakes get hot they fade. If your clutch is slipping it causing it to heat up too much like riding brakes down a hill. Eventually they fade. In your case clutch would slip more. That is my guess but 1M has clutch temp warning. Surprised that didn't come on??!!
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      12-01-2017, 04:17 PM   #10
rapter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormchaser7 View Post
Have you checked for any error codes with a code reader? I would start there. It could be spark plugs, coils, high pressure fuel pump, walnut blast, boost leak, o2 sensors.
Dealer has indicated this morning that the "clutch" is on its way out?

I find this incredible hard to believe given the amount of clutch travel I have +60% ... and I am an extremely excellent manual driver (no abuse or clutch slipping).

Could someone illuminate how a cold clutch operates fine and a hot clutch does not ?
Yes. Clutch is like your brakes. The clutch material is like brake pads and pressure plate and flywheel are like your brake disk. When brakes get hot they fade. If your clutch is slipping it causing it to heat up too much like riding brakes down a hill. Eventually they fade. In your case clutch would slip more. That is my guess but 1M has clutch temp warning. Surprised that didn't come on??!!
Agreed that there should be a clutch temp warning that would come on...

I have never heard of a clutch glazing over due to normal use. I totally understand if the clutch was glazed due to slipping or high rpm damage.

Is it possible that the portion of "glazed" clutch material will wear away with time and the. The remainder of the clutch will operate normally ?

Similar to burning off glazing on break pads
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      12-01-2017, 05:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapter View Post
Agreed that there should be a clutch temp warning that would come on...

I have never heard of a clutch glazing over due to normal use. I totally understand if the clutch was glazed due to slipping or high rpm damage.

Is it possible that the portion of "glazed" clutch material will wear away with time and the. The remainder of the clutch will operate normally ?

Similar to burning off glazing on break pads
If the pads are glazed, you can't "burn" it off. You have to take them out and sand them. A glazed disk means replacement. Any chance the rear main seal is leaking oil onto the clutch?

Just curious, do you ever hold the car in place with the clutch?
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      12-01-2017, 08:25 PM   #12
rapter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapter View Post
Agreed that there should be a clutch temp warning that would come on...

I have never heard of a clutch glazing over due to normal use. I totally understand if the clutch was glazed due to slipping or high rpm damage.

Is it possible that the portion of "glazed" clutch material will wear away with time and the. The remainder of the clutch will operate normally ?

Similar to burning off glazing on break pads
If the pads are glazed, you can't "burn" it off. You have to take them out and sand them. A glazed disk means replacement. Any chance the rear main seal is leaking oil onto the clutch?

Just curious, do you ever hold the car in place with the clutch?
Would not be able to confirm if the main seal is leaking...

There is no residues or fluids on my garage floor.

Further information that during the shudder occurrence there is no change in engine rpm, rpm remains steady, transmission stick shakes violently and diff makes noise...

No, I never hold the car on a hill with the clutch that is a Job for the handbrake or the main breaks.... good question though.

For the record I have only once successfully been able to machine glazed pads back to life.
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      12-01-2017, 11:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
If the pads are glazed, you can't "burn" it off. You have to take them out and sand them. A glazed disk means replacement. Any chance the rear main seal is leaking oil onto the clutch?

Just curious, do you ever hold the car in place with the clutch?
Ditto, was just going to say that. Once glazed, sanding or resurfacing only option. If you had a small leak of the main seal into the clutch, that would cause clutch failure and if small you wouldn't see much outside. There were 1 or 2 that this happened on 1Ms if I recall but not very common.

Make sure if you get a clutch to address the main seal just in case.
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      01-13-2018, 04:37 PM   #14
rapter
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Hello all,

To Update this thread, the issue with the car is the dual-mass flywheel assembly (self diagnosed).

When the car is running and in neutral there is a distinct flywheel chatter when you release the clutch pedal.

I invision that the stutter and vibrations through the chassis that I am feeling is the flywheel's inability to smooth out the power delivery of the straight 6.

I heard the flywheel chatter earlier in the car's life and dismissed it as normal M car idle noises, however the chatter is slightly worse now and I have the new symptom of the aforementioned stutter.

Is it safe to drive the car with the early signs and symptoms? What are the ill effects of driving the car over a prolonged time with the dual mass flywheel damage?
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      02-14-2018, 11:43 PM   #15
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Mind does something similar.

Did tons and tons of research after I bought the car (2014) - Lots of threads/forums reporting a similar issue, with respect to M3s (also with dual mass fly wheels).

Example with video:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1071286

Been driving the car for 4 years without any related problems.
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