do you downshift? - BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)

gavolant · 10-19-2010, 10:03 AM

Just curious what most of you do when approach a light/stop sign?

What are the benefits/disadvantages of downshifting from an engine/clutch maintenance point of view??

Ruffan · 10-19-2010, 11:19 AM

many people downsift to take advantage of engine braking. Enging braking helps decelerate the car while saving some brake wear. The downside is that if you slip the clutch on the downshift you are trading brake wear for clutch wear. I think we all know that clutches cost more than brake pads.

The best (and most fun) way to downshift is to rev-match on the downshift. Heel-toe downshifts match the engine speed to the transmission speed and will almost eliminate the wear on your clutch. There will still be some slipping as the clutch speed will have slowed while the clutch pedal is depressed, but it will be minimal. See detailed instructions at this website:

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/how...2/article.html

DriveHard · 10-19-2010, 12:54 PM

I perfer downshifting in general. the above post basically covered what you were asking, but i would add in busy cities / towns i like to have the car in a gear ready for evasive / defensive manuvers..... Nothing worse to scramble for a gear when a car decides to cut over from the turning lane and stopping just wont do it.

my .02

Boxtyp3 · 10-19-2010, 01:50 PM

Just press the brakes. That's why it's there for.

JHOOPS2 · 10-19-2010, 01:59 PM

I always DS MT's. That way if I need to accelerate quickly for one reason or another I am ready to go. I always like being in the appropriate gear for the speed I am traveling.

-Jeff

Dackelone · 10-19-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxtyp3

Just press the brakes. That's why it's there for.

+1.

Brakes are cheaper than syncro rings/new tranny. I only downshift when I am entering a turn and I need to power thru that turn.

tritonx · 10-19-2010, 03:55 PM

Powerbraking shouldn't be a driving habits. Unless you like changing clutch. Brakes=cheaper and you can do it yourself with basic tools. The clutch is something else.
I downshift to gain power, when too slow for the gear I'm in.

miiipilot · 10-19-2010, 04:55 PM

If I am just slowing...I Downshift and keep it moving.

If I am stopping...Neutral and brake to a stop. Brakes are cheaper than clutches. One caveat...once you are in neutral, you lose the quick ability to react to a situation that may require power to maneuver through.

But for every garden-variety coming to a RED stop-light or a stop-sign. Shift to neutral and brake.

miiipilot

ennislaw · 10-19-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavolant

Just curious what most of you do when approach a light/stop sign? ...

I downshift as often as possible, if nothing else just to hear the burble from the Meisterschaft Touring HP exhaust.

As to the clutch wear issue, every car I've purchased new has had a MT, never replaced a clutch yet and most have run over 160K miles. If you like downshifting, do it.

pge

GaryS · 10-19-2010, 05:51 PM

I remember I fell in love with engine braking when I first learned to drive a manual. But then I learned to heel-toe and fell out of love with engine braking. I budget for new brake pads, but not for new clutches and synchros.

GaryS · 10-19-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miiipilot

If I am just slowing...I Downshift and keep it moving.

If I am stopping...Neutral and brake to a stop. Brakes are cheaper than clutches. One caveat...once you are in neutral, you lose the quick ability to react to a situation that may require power to maneuver through.

But for every garden-variety coming to a RED stop-light or a stop-sign. Shift to neutral and brake.

miiipilot

FWIW my advice is just brake. Don't shift into neutral until it slows to 1000 rpm or less.

Dackelone · 10-19-2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryS

FWIW my advice is just brake. Don't shift into neutral until it slows to 1000 rpm or less.

+1.

Even in a panic stop... it is better to NOT depress the clutch until the car is almost stopped. Leaving the clutch engaged allows for a more equal brake ballance.

What I mean is IF you do a panic stop 100% braking and press the clutch pedal down... you are more likely to lock one of the wheels. Keeping the clutch engaged allows for less dramatic stops. Esp on the street.

j1gzca · 10-19-2010, 07:41 PM

Nowadays my transmission does it for me...it even rev-matches.

When I had a manual car and I came up to a light, I would just leave it in the gear it's in while braking until the revs are almost at idle and then put it in neutral.

Groundpilot · 10-21-2010, 10:01 AM

I assume you have MT. In that case i agree with most posters here that suggest to brake as b.pads are cheaper than cluches. Of course for us, DCT owners, the system downshifts for us when the car comes to a complete stop

Dwnshift · 12-13-2010, 09:47 AM

Yes...yes I do.

sw4ng · 01-29-2011, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveHard

I perfer downshifting in general. the above post basically covered what you were asking, but i would add in busy cities / towns i like to have the car in a gear ready for evasive / defensive manuvers..... Nothing worse to scramble for a gear when a car decides to cut over from the turning lane and stopping just wont do it.

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruffan

The best (and most fun) way to downshift is to rev-match on the downshift. Heel-toe downshifts match the engine speed to the transmission speed and will almost eliminate the wear on your clutch.

+1

BMW86 · 01-29-2011, 02:29 AM

I downshift because I can't help myself and my car is a steptronic. I find the exhaust note intoxicating and I'm in love with the pop, crackle and burble sounds it makes after each downshift. My logic is that brakes are much cheaper to replace than engine wear but another part of me feels that these high performance engines are built to withstand it.

1on135_deal · 01-29-2011, 02:32 AM

mt if lease down shift is finance N brake LOL

JimD · 01-30-2011, 09:08 PM

Not downshifting because of concern about clutch wear is silly. I've had clutches go as high as 140K miles that I know of and I downshift all the time. I used to just let the speed in each gear come down and then downshift if I was braking gradually but I now rock my foot from side to side to blip the throttle on each downshift. I do that for practice for the much more rare situation where I am downshifting at significant rpm and the wear on the synchros might be more of an issue.

Clutch wear is bad when you are slipping it getting the car moving. Some clutch wear occurs when under hard acceleration because you are closer to the limit of the clutch to hook up and it will slip a little. Virtually no wear occurs on downshifts because engine power if low and the clutch engages with very little slip.

Pushing the clutch in and hitting the brakes is for people who are still learning to drive a manual transmission. Experienced manual transmission drivers downshift - at least all of them I know downshift. I think it is time for some of you to stop using clutch wear as an excuse and learn a new skill.

Jim

Lubo · 01-31-2011, 09:08 AM

^^^ I agree with Jim.

I always downshift, when coming down to a stop. Heel and toe or rev matching is always used depending on application.

On a side note:

I had a friend tell me at the party that he finally after 3 years learned to properly drive M/T, and was asking if I know about rev-matching and heel-toe shifting.

10-19-2010, 10:03 AM	#1
gavolant Second Lieutenant Drives: 2011 AW 135i M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Falls Church, VA Posts: 208 iTrader: (0)	do you downshift? Just curious what most of you do when approach a light/stop sign? What are the benefits/disadvantages of downshifting from an engine/clutch maintenance point of view?? __________________ 2011 AW 135i Coupe\|6MT\|Savanna Beige\|M Sport\|Navi Order Placed: July 26 \| Production Started: Aug 09 \| Production Complete: Aug 17 \|At Port: Aug 19 \| In Transit: Sept 02 \| At Prep Center: Sept 15 \| At Dealer: Sept 25
	Tweet

10-19-2010, 11:19 AM	#2
Ruffan Member Drives: '09 135i Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gotham Posts: 392 iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	many people downsift to take advantage of engine braking. Enging braking helps decelerate the car while saving some brake wear. The downside is that if you slip the clutch on the downshift you are trading brake wear for clutch wear. I think we all know that clutches cost more than brake pads. The best (and most fun) way to downshift is to rev-match on the downshift. Heel-toe downshifts match the engine speed to the transmission speed and will almost eliminate the wear on your clutch. There will still be some slipping as the clutch speed will have slowed while the clutch pedal is depressed, but it will be minimal. See detailed instructions at this website: http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/how...2/article.html __________________ 2009 135i Dinan Stuff

10-19-2010, 12:54 PM	#3
DriveHard Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 128i M-Sport Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 1,919 iTrader: (0)	I perfer downshifting in general. the above post basically covered what you were asking, but i would add in busy cities / towns i like to have the car in a gear ready for evasive / defensive manuvers..... Nothing worse to scramble for a gear when a car decides to cut over from the turning lane and stopping just wont do it. my .02 __________________ '11 128i M-Sport Pkg, Sport Susp., 6AT w/paddles, BMW Perf CAI,Charcoal Filter Delete, BMW Perf. Big Brake Kit, BMW Perf. Exhaust, Ferodo 2500's, Titanium shims,135 trunk lip, BMS-PBX Box-Map 3, Castrol RBF600 ,e93 FSB, , f30 Backing Plates,GC Camber Plates, Hankook RS-3's (Track setup)

10-19-2010, 01:59 PM	#5
JHOOPS2 AKA HISSMAN Drives: 2009 SG 135i Coupe' Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: USA Posts: 884 iTrader: (5)	I always DS MT's. That way if I need to accelerate quickly for one reason or another I am ready to go. I always like being in the appropriate gear for the speed I am traveling. -Jeff __________________ (FBO) Cobb Stage 2+, AR Downpipes, Injen DCI, AA (Sport) FMIC, ER Chargepipe/Synapse BOV, Carbon fiber bits and Breyton GTS-R Wheels.

10-19-2010, 03:55 PM	#7
tritonx Second Lieutenant Drives: '11 128i, '92 325is Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Quebec, Qc, Canada Posts: 224 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 128i [0.00] 1992 325is [0.00] 1994 318is [0.00]	Powerbraking shouldn't be a driving habits. Unless you like changing clutch. Brakes=cheaper and you can do it yourself with basic tools. The clutch is something else. I downshift to gain power, when too slow for the gear I'm in. __________________

10-19-2010, 01:50 PM	#4
Boxtyp3 Captain Drives: E82AW N54/ e92 BSM N55 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 745 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 135i [0.00] 2013 E92 335i [0.00]	Just press the brakes. That's why it's there for.

10-19-2010, 04:55 PM	#8
miiipilot Captain Drives: 2011 TiAg 135i 6mt M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 618 iTrader: (0)	If I am just slowing...I Downshift and keep it moving. If I am stopping...Neutral and brake to a stop. Brakes are cheaper than clutches. One caveat...once you are in neutral, you lose the quick ability to react to a situation that may require power to maneuver through. But for every garden-variety coming to a RED stop-light or a stop-sign. Shift to neutral and brake. miiipilot __________________ miiipilot 2011 135i TiAg w/Black Boston 6mt M-Sport, Premium Pkg, Value Pkg

10-19-2010, 05:51 PM	#10
GaryS Colonel Drives: 2009 135i 6MT Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,081 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 135i [3.25]	I remember I fell in love with engine braking when I first learned to drive a manual. But then I learned to heel-toe and fell out of love with engine braking. I budget for new brake pads, but not for new clutches and synchros.

10-19-2010, 07:41 PM	#13
j1gzca doppelkupplungsgetriebe Drives: '11 E82 N55 / '12 E91 N52 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: CT Posts: 117 iTrader: (0)	Nowadays my transmission does it for me...it even rev-matches. When I had a manual car and I came up to a light, I would just leave it in the gear it's in while braking until the revs are almost at idle and then put it in neutral. __________________

10-21-2010, 10:01 AM	#14
Groundpilot Captain Drives: 135I DCT , e92 M3 DCT,535 I Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: long island,ny Posts: 602 iTrader: (0)	I assume you have MT. In that case i agree with most posters here that suggest to brake as b.pads are cheaper than cluches. Of course for us, DCT owners, the system downshifts for us when the car comes to a complete stop Last edited by Groundpilot; 10-21-2010 at 11:26 AM.

12-13-2010, 09:47 AM	#15
Dwnshift Enlisted Member Drives: 128i Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 31 iTrader: (1)	Yes...yes I do.

01-29-2011, 02:29 AM	#17
BMW86 Major General Drives: BMW 135i / Kawa Ninja Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 8,619 iTrader: (0)	I downshift because I can't help myself and my car is a steptronic. I find the exhaust note intoxicating and I'm in love with the pop, crackle and burble sounds it makes after each downshift. My logic is that brakes are much cheaper to replace than engine wear but another part of me feels that these high performance engines are built to withstand it. __________________ BMW 135i N54 TWIN TURBO Quarter Mile 12.173@113.70mph - Street Tyres Queensland Raceway Sprint 1:01:22 - Street Tyres Queensland Raceway Clubman 1:04:74 - Street Tyres Lakeside Raceway 1:03:97 - Street Tyres

01-29-2011, 02:32 AM	#18
1on135_deal First Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i & 2011 M3 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: NY Posts: 345 iTrader: (0)	mt if lease down shift is finance N brake LOL

01-30-2011, 09:08 PM	#19
JimD Colonel Drives: 128i convertible Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 2,193 iTrader: (0)	Not downshifting because of concern about clutch wear is silly. I've had clutches go as high as 140K miles that I know of and I downshift all the time. I used to just let the speed in each gear come down and then downshift if I was braking gradually but I now rock my foot from side to side to blip the throttle on each downshift. I do that for practice for the much more rare situation where I am downshifting at significant rpm and the wear on the synchros might be more of an issue. Clutch wear is bad when you are slipping it getting the car moving. Some clutch wear occurs when under hard acceleration because you are closer to the limit of the clutch to hook up and it will slip a little. Virtually no wear occurs on downshifts because engine power if low and the clutch engages with very little slip. Pushing the clutch in and hitting the brakes is for people who are still learning to drive a manual transmission. Experienced manual transmission drivers downshift - at least all of them I know downshift. I think it is time for some of you to stop using clutch wear as an excuse and learn a new skill. Jim __________________ 128i Convertible, MT, Alpine White, Black Top, Taupe Leatherette, Walnut, Sport Ordered 5/22/09, Completed 6/4/09, At Port 6/9/09, On the Georgia Highway 6/13/09, Ship Arrived Charleston 6/24/09 at 10pm, PCD 7/21/09

01-31-2011, 09:08 AM	#20
Lubo 1addict Drives: 09 135i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 468 iTrader: (1)	^^^ I agree with Jim. I always downshift, when coming down to a stop. Heel and toe or rev matching is always used depending on application. On a side note: I had a friend tell me at the party that he finally after 3 years learned to properly drive M/T, and was asking if I know about rev-matching and heel-toe shifting.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search