Can those with 1Ms compare to JB3?

[adrean8j]

1seriesstud: You thought this whole time that piggyback tunes on 135i's stacked??? Ok now I know you are new to the E82 tuning world Just messing with you...but like the others have said they do NOT stack but instead fool the car into thinking it has lower boost and then adjusting timing and other parameters to run at what the boost level actually is.....JB4, Procede both do it although in slightly different ways (an entire argument on its own). Will a tuned 135i with piggyback and full exhaust and IC mods be fast in a straight line? You bet your ass it will...esp. if they both hook up off the line properly...no way a retooled intake, exhaust, flywheel, and LSD beats my car with 60-70 more WHP and 70-80 more lb/ft of torque.

[1Mer]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

I think that is where the problem is in some peoples minds. The engine has the same turbos, same cams, same head, same CR, etc etc. So, short of a miracle the end results will be the same as with any other N54.

Nothing wrong with the N54 (aside from the historic Fuel Pump reliability). I'd settle for a BMW sanctioned Perforamnce Upgrade for the 1M.

Remember this? - I think it's coming...


http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457707

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

No doubt about it, and that is part of the reason why a good LSD is on my short list of mods. I've taken care of traction other than that. The 1-Series M will always have a big advantage due to it's wider stance, and there isn't anything that I want to do about that on my car.

With humor I still must say that the only proof I have to back it up is based off of the evidence gathered from the engine in my 135i that carries the same N54 designation.

Just think with the money you will spend on suspension, tires, LSD, etc. you could have had a 1M.

[clived]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

You keep saying it is the same but don't supply any proof to back it up.

To keep you happy, lets put this to rest and say the engine is EXACTLY the same so a tuned 1m and a tuned 135 will have the same power output. The 1M is better equipped to put the power to the ground which all that counts.

My view is that a tuned 1M and a tuned N54 135i will make the same power. The 1M is slightly lighter (right?) and has the lightened flywheel, so will have marginally better power to weight, better throttle response, and of course potentially better traction if the surface doesn't offer optimal grip. So it's very likely to be faster. A tiny tiny bit faster.

What it isn't going to do is handle better or be more fun. Which is why I'm moving from tuned 135i to 1M.

Out of curiousity MrRoboto, the burden of proof could lie in the other direction - what proof is there that the 1M engine isn't the same as the N54 135i? I'm not saying it is or isn't, but I haven't seen actual proof, only some words on my laptop screen.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by clived

My view is that a tuned 1M and a tuned N54 135i will make the same power. The 1M is slightly lighter (right?) and has the lightened flywheel, so will have marginally better power to weight, better throttle response, and of course potentially better traction if the surface doesn't offer optimal grip. So it's very likely to be faster. A tiny tiny bit faster.

What it isn't going to do is handle better or be more fun. Which is why I'm moving from tuned 135i to 1M.

Out of curiousity MrRoboto, the burden of proof could lie in the other direction - what proof is there that the 1M engine isn't the same as the N54 135i? I'm not saying it is or isn't, but I haven't seen actual proof, only some words on my laptop screen.

My proof comment was tongue in cheek, as neither side has absolute proof weather the complete engine is or isn't exactly the same however every review I have seen mentioned a tweaked intake and exhaust.

And dont forget the drivetrain...the 1M has a higher final drive ratio.

[1SerieStud]

You are actually correct - despite my 10 years of force-induction experience, including swapping/building engines as well components, I am new to the way the e82's get tuned. It appears that there is quite a bit of more technology involved (which as a computer engineer I am happy to see ). Your explanation combined with those of others as to how these piggy backs work make perfect sense. Thanks for sharing the knowledge

Originally Posted by adrean8j

1seriesstud: You thought this whole time that piggyback tunes on 135i's stacked??? Ok now I know you are new to the E82 tuning world Just messing with you...but like the others have said they do NOT stack but instead fool the car into thinking it has lower boost and then adjusting timing and other parameters to run at what the boost level actually is.....JB4, Procede both do it although in slightly different ways (an entire argument on its own). Will a tuned 135i with piggyback and full exhaust and IC mods be fast in a straight line? You bet your ass it will...esp. if they both hook up off the line properly...no way a retooled intake, exhaust, flywheel, and LSD beats my car with 60-70 more WHP and 70-80 more lb/ft of torque.

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Just think with the money you will spend on suspension, tires, LSD, etc. you could have had a 1M.

But I only paid $34,800 + Title on my 2009

[clived]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Your explanation combined with those of others as to how these piggy backs work make perfect sense. Thanks for sharing the knowledge

Makes me happy to be a forum user

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by 1Mer

Nothing wrong with the N54 (aside from the historic Fuel Pump reliability). I'd settle for a BMW sanctioned Perforamnce Upgrade for the 1M.

Remember this? - I think it's coming...


http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457707

Now that would be a monster. I remember that thread. Some speculation on another board was that it had two "twin-Power N55 style turbos". But I don't think that they will fit, so that was ruled out.

[adrean8j]

Lets just fix all of this conjecture and guessing:

Piston Rings:

135i: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...86&hg=11&fg=20

1M coupe http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...86&hg=11&fg=20


INTAKE

135i

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...55&hg=13&fg=20

1M coupe

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...55&hg=13&fg=20

FLYWHEEL

135i

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...87&hg=11&fg=20

1M coupe

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...87&hg=11&fg=20

Not going to list the exhaust here as that is OBVIOUSLY different(including the midpipe...just not from a visual standpoint...but it does have a different part #) This is just to prove what IS and ISN'T different for those that may want to know

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

Lets just fix all of this conjecture and guessing:

Piston Rings:

135i: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...86&hg=11&fg=20

1M coupe http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...86&hg=11&fg=20


INTAKE

135i

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...55&hg=13&fg=20

1M coupe

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...55&hg=13&fg=20

FLYWHEEL

135i

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...87&hg=11&fg=20

1M coupe

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...87&hg=11&fg=20

Not going to list the exhaust here as that is OBVIOUSLY different(including the midpipe...just not from a visual standpoint...but it does have a different part #) This is just to prove what IS and ISN'T different for those that may want to know

It all looks the same. The 1-Series M is using the latest hardware the was found on the 12/09 and later N54 engine.

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

It all looks the same. The 1-Series M is using the latest hardware the was found on the 12/09 and later N54 engine.

Sorry the flywheel is NOT the same...and neither is the exhaust.....piston rings look to be the same as well as the intake muffler and manifold...I didn't look at all the part numbers for the piping to and from the intake though that would be minor (or would it?)

[JHOOPS2]

135i flywheel - 21207590942
1 Series M flywheel - 21207590942

Not sure what part numbers you are looking at...

intake snorkle is the same as well. All same..Latest parts found on >2009 N54 engines

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

But I only paid $34,800 + Title on my 2009

Even at 35k, with 1k in tires, ~3k for lsd, 2k in suspension you are ~5k from the 1m.

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Even at 35k, with 1k in tires, ~3k for lsd, 2k in suspension you are ~5k from the 1m.

Last time I checked though, $5,000 was pretty substantial. And the suspension would likely be better than what comes on the M.

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

135i flywheel - 21207590942
1 Series M flywheel - 21207590942

Not sure what part numbers you are looking at...

intake snorkle is the same as well. All same..Latest parts found on >2009 N54 engines

Sorry I stand corrected....I misread the 135i page...apparently the flywheel was changed on later model (Jan '09) N54's....

[MrRoboto]

Certainly not going to take realoems word for it.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

Last time I checked though, $5,000 was pretty substantial. And the suspension would likely be better than what comes on the M.

5k substantial to you you maybe. For the additional components you get with the 1M it is well worth it.

I have aftermarket suspension on my 135 and it certainly lacks on the track.

[JHOOPS2]

The 2009 and later FW is actually a pretty good part for an OE peice. There are better aftermarket parts, but for a OE part it isn't something that I can see the engineers saying...lets make that better...and not sacrifice longevity.

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

5k substantial to you you maybe.

I have aftermarket suspension on my 135 and it certainly lacks on the track.

I think 5K is substantial from a modding standpoint. And trust me, that isn't substantial to my check book. My point is, what else could I do for the remaining $5K. FWIW I have the title to my 1'er, and I just bought it in September.

[adrean8j]

$2k in suspension and better than the 1M?? Sorry I have to raise the BS flag there....KW V1 suspension alone is ~$1200 and that is only height adjustable...if you go for something like AST or TC Kline you can up the price a good bit...and that is just for coilovers....then you have the swaybar, endlinks, wishbones, bushings, etc, etc...and that is another $2k at least just for parts....and then you have the wider track...so suspension-wise I don't think it could be "better"....close to the M i could accept...better I cannot...

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

$2k in suspension and better than the 1M?? Sorry I have to raise the BS flag there....KW V1 suspension alone is ~$1200 and that is only height adjustable...if you go for something like AST or TC Kline you can up the price a good bit...and that is just for coilovers....then you have the swaybar, endlinks, wishbones, bushings, etc, etc...and that is another $2k at least just for parts....and then you have the wider track...so suspension-wise I don't think it could be "better"....close to the M i could accept...better I cannot...

So you are saying that the M suspension is the best you can get? Also, I'm not the one that threw the $2,000 suspension figure out. Which is why I noted, imagine what else could be done for the remaining $5K, which would make the total suspension estimate equal to $7K. Who knows, I might end up with a 1-series M one day.