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      06-12-2011, 11:22 AM   #1
lhsa
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Buying 1M out of state, in person sign required (export issue)?

throwing this out there to see if anyone else has come across a similar issue.

i'm about to buy through a dealer far from my state. they tell me it's their policy for remote purchases on limited cars - like the 1M - to require the purchaser to come to the dealer in person to sign paperwork to ensure the person is buying for their own use and not for export.

while it's understandable a dealership would want to protect themselves from resellers since bmw penalizes dealerships that allow resells, an in-person sale affords no meaningful protection for the dealership. the flaw in reasoning is obvious - there's no practical difference between me signing everything remote and signing in person. if my intent was to resell, i could sign in person and then resell.

has anyone seen this before
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      06-12-2011, 12:49 PM   #2
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Identity fraud is why. They want to see you and have two forms of I.D. There have been cases where someone poses as another - to finance a car in their name and the car vanishes.
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      06-12-2011, 02:18 PM   #3
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This seems interesting to me as I am buying out of state as well and they are allowing me to do everything electronically. Would be interesting to know why the dealership you are dealing with deems it "necessary".
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      06-12-2011, 04:03 PM   #4
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To the op I'm in the same boat as you. I have bought a BMW previously from another dealer back in 2007 who fedexed all the forms to me and then had the car transported to my home state. However, with this other dealer I am getting my 1M from they basically say it is against their policy and I must take delivery in person. So I have to fly across country, take delivery, put the car on the transport and fly back. What a previous poster mentioned about identity fraud sounds reasonable, but some dealers will ship while others require you take delivery in person.
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      06-12-2011, 04:12 PM   #5
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identity fraud is one thing, but the dealership doesn't question my identity. they claim it's to prevent a possible resale or export, which could occur regardless if i pick up in person or not.

maybe this is due to the dealership being small and don't process many remote sales. i would think bigger dealerships are comfortable with remote sales. with technology these days, is it that difficult to videoconference and verify the identity digitally?
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      06-12-2011, 05:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKG View Post
To the op I'm in the same boat as you. I have bought a BMW previously from another dealer back in 2007 who fedexed all the forms to me and then had the car transported to my home state. However, with this other dealer I am getting my 1M from they basically say it is against their policy and I must take delivery in person. So I have to fly across country, take delivery, put the car on the transport and fly back. What a previous poster mentioned about identity fraud sounds reasonable, but some dealers will ship while others require you take delivery in person.
I'll fly over and take it for you! My allocations not until October. Are you getting the car for msrp if so seems a small price to pay for such a car!!!!
Sorry just blowing off steam! Good luck
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      06-12-2011, 06:08 PM   #7
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Hmmm thats odd. People buy cars everyday via fedex etc. How does you going to the dealer prevent you from exporting the car? You can go in sign paperwork and drive car to the port. There has to be something else behind it.
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      06-12-2011, 09:15 PM   #8
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I am in a similar situation with a deposit out of state but I am doing ED. There is a "Courtesy Delivery" option with ED whereby the dealer you buy from can arrange with your local dealer to receive the car for you, do the training and drive-off prep and I believe, if you are going to finance through BMW, they can do the loan papers, etc. I am not positive but in my deal, my dealer would charge $500 to the Florida dealer for this service.

So after Europe, BMW would ship the car to me in San Diego and I wouldn't have to fly to Florida to pick it up. Look into the Courtesy delivery option. It might cost money but still better than flying across country, road damage, fuel, etc.

So my suggestion is ask if there is something that can be done between your local dealer and theirs. It might cost a bit more but probably worth it.

Good luck.
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      06-12-2011, 11:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
I am in a similar situation with a deposit out of state but I am doing ED. There is a "Courtesy Delivery" option with ED whereby the dealer you buy from can arrange with your local dealer to receive the car for you, do the training and drive-off prep and I believe, if you are going to finance through BMW, they can do the loan papers, etc. I am not positive but in my deal, my dealer would charge $500 to the Florida dealer for this service.

So after Europe, BMW would ship the car to me in San Diego and I wouldn't have to fly to Florida to pick it up. Look into the Courtesy delivery option. It might cost money but still better than flying across country, road damage, fuel, etc.

So my suggestion is ask if there is something that can be done between your local dealer and theirs. It might cost a bit more but probably worth it.

Good luck.
Thanks I was not aware of this, I'll ask my dealer.
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      06-13-2011, 09:02 AM   #10
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I have heard that BMW will (and has) come down hard on dealers in the past who sell cars for export. Maybe this is why.
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      06-13-2011, 09:53 AM   #11
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This might be true, but I can't believe anything BMW dealers tell me anymore. I have gotten all sorts of conflicting BS crap from them. .... Yes we have a car, no we don't, won't do ED, can't do ED, We lose money on ED, we are selling these for 5K over like hotcakes....blah, blah.

If the source was a dealer, I would consider the source. Not saying it's not true, but I have found that with dealers you have to take it with a grain of salt. IMHO.
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      06-13-2011, 10:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhsa View Post
throwing this out there to see if anyone else has come across a similar issue.

i'm about to buy through a dealer far from my state. they tell me it's their policy for remote purchases on limited cars - like the 1M - to require the purchaser to come to the dealer in person to sign paperwork to ensure the person is buying for their own use and not for export.

while it's understandable a dealership would want to protect themselves from resellers since bmw penalizes dealerships that allow resells, an in-person sale affords no meaningful protection for the dealership. the flaw in reasoning is obvious - there's no practical difference between me signing everything remote and signing in person. if my intent was to resell, i could sign in person and then resell.

has anyone seen this before
The reason as to why some dealers do and some dont is that this paticular dealer you are dealing with MAY have already gotten "caught" doing this sell for export thing and is under scrutiny by BMW..

There was a BIG issue when the X6 came out... The reason why you dont see that truck/car so much around here ( USA) is that they all ended up oversees !!! south America etc etc etc ..

and to this... " if my intent was to resell, i could sign in person and then resell."

yes you could.... BUT it would be a used car as opposed to a new car off of an MSO as opposed to a title. This seems to matter for documentation / taxes / or other issues.

BMW is against Brokers. It damages there dealer body
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      06-13-2011, 10:50 AM   #13
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maybe i'm not understanding the process, but if the dealership fills out the title and sends it along to my DMV for registration, there's no chance i can sell the car as new (although foreign jurisdictions may not care).

as i see it, there are numerous alternatives that provide robust protection for the dealership, without creating cost and inconvenience for the legitimate out of state purchaser. i think it's a matter of too much caution without critical thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveHard View Post
The reason as to why some dealers do and some dont is that this paticular dealer you are dealing with MAY have already gotten "caught" doing this sell for export thing and is under scrutiny by BMW..

There was a BIG issue when the X6 came out... The reason why you dont see that truck/car so much around here ( USA) is that they all ended up oversees !!! south America etc etc etc ..

and to this... " if my intent was to resell, i could sign in person and then resell."

yes you could.... BUT it would be a used car as opposed to a new car off of an MSO as opposed to a title. This seems to matter for documentation / taxes / or other issues.

BMW is against Brokers. It damages there dealer body
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      06-13-2011, 11:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhsa View Post
maybe i'm not understanding the process, but if the dealership fills out the title and sends it along to my DMV for registration, there's no chance i can sell the car as new (although foreign jurisdictions may not care).

as i see it, there are numerous alternatives that provide robust protection for the dealership, without creating cost and inconvenience for the legitimate out of state purchaser. i think it's a matter of too much caution without critical thinking.
If you are not present to sign,( and therefore keeping the dealership from confirming the actual signer via photo documentation) what keeps you from presenting documentation ( via mail) for your end user and therfore making it appear as though they have purchased a vehicle as new.

It appears as though you are the broker for a third party end user. This is what BMW does not like.
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      06-13-2011, 11:51 AM   #15
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the issue is export. it's obvious if i'm submitting information for "richard yang in shanghai" or "juan carlos in mexico" it's for export. i'm talking about my name and address, license #, etc.

also, the issue could still be settled via teleconference confirming my identity. i still think there are imminently viable alternatives if fraud is the issue.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveHard View Post
If you are not present to sign,( and therefore keeping the dealership from confirming the actual signer via photo documentation) what keeps you from presenting documentation ( via mail) for your end user and therfore making it appear as though they have purchased a vehicle as new.

It appears as though you are the broker for a third party end user. This is what BMW does not like.
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