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08-11-2012, 03:19 PM | #287 |
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Ha, just when I thought this thread had run it's course
Okay, first off, radio and climate control aren't options-- they're standard features. So I actually didn't option them at all. Nav is an option, but the nav brain only weights 2 lbs and doesn't hurt torsional rigidity at all. Moving to the actual point, though-- climate control and radio are necessities to use the car as a car. Without climate control you could drive the car what, 2 months of the year? Too cold to drive it without heat in the winter, too hot to drive it without AC in the summer. Similarly, sitting in traffic without radio is insufferable. Not being a vert doesn't make the car unusable in any way. In fact, the coupe is a MORE useful car in every way-- trunk space, back seat space, etc. To your point, you're welcome at any point to point out that my CC/radio/nav come at a weight penalty. I fully realize that, which is why I don't have any of them in my track car. They're still in the car because it's not useful as a car without them (I've taken lots of other stuff out-- my street M3 is ~160 lbs lighter than stock). That said, they don't weight anywhere near as much as the vert adds, they don't hurt torsional rigidity at all, they don't hurt practicality at all (quite the opposite). Asking why you have climate control on a street car is kind of like asking why you have tires on a street car-- because it's necessary to use it as a car.
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08-11-2012, 05:01 PM | #288 | |
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08-11-2012, 05:19 PM | #289 |
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08-11-2012, 06:50 PM | #290 | ||
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And you have a problem with people who made different selections stating their opinion that those selections do not "significantly" alter the performance of the car. You're not "correcting" people. You're just being a snob. Quote:
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08-11-2012, 06:59 PM | #291 | |
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Nav, admittedly, is not necessary. But, at 2 lbs for the brain, pretty insignificant compared to the 80 times greater weight penalty of the vert (not to mention the loss of torsional rigidity).
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08-11-2012, 11:48 PM | #292 | |
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I'm glad we've cleared that up.
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08-12-2012, 06:12 AM | #293 | |
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08-12-2012, 09:13 AM | #294 | |
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Along the same line, why do you drive a car with seats that aren't used? You should take them out, as this is extra and unnecessary weight. Oh wait - it's a street car, a daily driver - a COMPROMISE THAT YOU ARE HAPPY MAKING. Maybe the vert owners are that way - and some of us might even have more knowledge than you about certain things. Hard to believe, huh? You've posted above that you consider it necessary to "inform" every poster that has or is considering a convertible that there is a loss of rigidity with this body style. You are going to be very busy the rest of your life - and you will be less than welcome often. |
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08-12-2012, 09:17 AM | #295 |
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08-12-2012, 09:50 AM | #296 | |
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Again, though, I never said people shouldn't get verts. My only point is that people should realize what they're giving up. It's completely legitimate to choose to give that up for the vert experience, if that's what you want out of a car. That doesn't negate the fact that you're giving it up.
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08-12-2012, 09:55 AM | #297 | |
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BTW, if the convertibles are so horrible, why is the Miata such a popular car? Must be a floppy noodle since it's a vert. It does well in autocrossing? NOOOOOOO, this isn't possible. It's a vert. It's a compromise. NOOOOOOOO!!!! Last edited by eaglemike; 08-12-2012 at 10:01 AM.. |
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08-12-2012, 10:07 AM | #298 | |
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Nor was my point that all verts are bad cars. I didn't even say the 1 series vert is a bad car! Seriously used miatas get their frames boxed off by a roll cage, btw.
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08-12-2012, 10:38 AM | #299 | |
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A close friend of mine built ( a lot of) cages for these for quite a while....... duh.... You are still missing the point. First of all, the whole coupe vs vert rant by you and the other guy was off topic. You did say about that you were going to make sure every vert owner knew what they were giving up. I don't fit in a Miata, and even an M roadster is difficult for me. So I own a 135 vert. I guess I could make a point I need it. Last edited by eaglemike; 08-12-2012 at 02:15 PM.. Reason: typo |
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08-12-2012, 01:45 PM | #300 | ||
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08-12-2012, 02:30 PM | #301 | |
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People are free to make whatever informed decision they want to with that info. I'm just against people saying it doesn't exist.
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08-12-2012, 03:03 PM | #303 |
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08-12-2012, 03:23 PM | #304 |
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Yes, which is how we got into putting things into context-- other things of similar weight, other things with similar difference of grip, etc... Which is what really seemed to get the vert owners into a tizzy.
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08-12-2012, 05:01 PM | #305 | |
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sure, that's what did it. sarcasm off man, we could write it on a piece of paper, and pound it into your ear with a piece of 4X4, and you would still miss the point. Thread starts "anyone regret buying a 135 vert instead of 335." Some people think this means 135 vert vs 335 vert. Others 135 vert vs 335 coupe. You: don't you know a vert is significantly handicapped, due to less torsional rigidity, I have to fix you." Ans "yeah we know, no big deal. Significant, not really, we like our cars" You: don't you know a vert is significantly handicapped, due to less torsional rigidity, I have to fix you." ans "we get it, chill. significant is a relative term. everything is a compromise" You: don't you know a vert is significantly handicapped, due to less torsional rigidity, I have to fix you." repeat Last edited by eaglemike; 08-12-2012 at 05:16 PM.. |
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08-12-2012, 09:11 PM | #306 | ||
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Convertible Performance: Worse Driving dynamics: Worse Practicality: Worse Open air driving experience: Better It's not debatable and it's not an opinion. It's just the way it is. If the last part is the most important to you, you made the best choice. And the thread didn't start with us if you actually read it(I know, it's hard): Quote:
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08-12-2012, 09:12 PM | #307 | |
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I stand by the response. A 135 vert and a 335 coupe are the same weight - so the comment was indeed uninformed and pointless. But I just got home from a nice weekend trip with my gf. And I came back to see that this thread is still going... Yeesh - just all of you put a sock in it please. It's all as pointless as the comment that started it. I'm always up for a spirited debate, but this is just a bunch if people talking past eachother now. I think we've all said what we were going to say. So in closing - we like our verts, we bought them because we think they're better than coupes because of intangible attributes and not numbers that don't matter in daily driving. And whatever you say won't change the fact that I have 76 thousand very happy miles in my car. Despite that it may be slightly slower than a coupe. And that's the problem with everyone that's been commenting in this thread (including me) You all have to say or defend that the vert is "worse" than the coupe. Why can we all agree on the fact that a 135 vert is a very quick and fun car to drive, but the coupe is that much quicker (tho not as much fun for everybody) Although i an still waiting for obiwan and stigilwiggly to get me hard numbers to support all of their rigidity claims |
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08-12-2012, 09:26 PM | #308 | |
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You can live a delusion if it makes you feel better, though
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