1 series M intercooler is the same as 135i

[1Pirate]

Originally Posted by 2012one35i

We're starting to drift off topic again. I am hoping to keep this a generic intercooler thread. Not a "who's is bigger/better," but at what power level is it profitable, so to speak, to make the switch.

While it is certainly about how much horsepower a car produces the upgraded intercooler question is also impacted by how you drive and the climate you drive in. Someone who lives in Canada is less likely to experience heat soak issues at a given horsepower figure than someone who lives in south Florida for instance.

[2012one35i]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

My Thoughts: Keep in mind, not all tunes are equal as far as power goes, so i am just basing this off of average WOT boost.

Stock boost

• Daily driver : OE is fine
• Spirited Driving : OE is fine
• Autocross or tracking : OE is fine, but if you are in boost often then an aftermarket will benefit you in keeping iat's down and prevent timing retard due to intake temps.
  

Up to a 12 psi tune

• Daily Driver : OE is fine
• Spirited Driving : OE, but you could start to benefit from an aftermarket unit.
• Autocross or Tracking : Aftermarket unit recommended for extended peak performance

12-15 psi tune

• Daily Driver : OE is fine for short freeway entry ramp bursts.
• Spirited Driving : OE, but you could start to benefit from an aftermarket unit.
• Autocross or Tracking : Here is where I recommend a mandatory upgrade to a better FMIC.

>15 psi tune

• Daily Driver : OE will be fine, but to avoid knock when accelerating hard I recommend a better FMIC.
• Spirited Driving : After market FMIC for continual peak performance.
• Autocross or Tracking : If you want to go more than one lap and make the power that you are aiming for then yes, you need an FMIC.

Nice way to break it down. This is what I'm starting to believe as well.

[Freon]

The intercooler is going to work roughly the same after after a 12 second drag race or a 24 hour endurance race. There isn't enough heatmass to make much difference. I'm baffled by the conclusions and recommendations some people are making here based on some misconstrued idea of "heatsoak".

If it were a huge 35 lbs hunk of aluminum it might matter, and you it could be hiding lack of heat shedding in the bulk mass of the intercooler for very brief periods, but the stock unit has plastic endtanks and a tube and fin core. It's not that much aluminum to act as heat mass and hide poor cooling for even short periods of time.

The stock unit ALWAYS flows and cools poorly at high RPM, high boost, regardless of how long your foot is in it. There's no magic point where it suddenly falls apart, that's just not how these things work, but if I were to make any recommendations it would be based on boost and RPM, not anything to do with driving habits.

I would recommend you pencil some numbers and see how much you think that mass is going to hide a lack of ability to move heat before making recommendations depending on "seconds" of hard driving vs. minutes or even hours.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

My Thoughts: Keep in mind, not all tunes are equal as far as power goes, so i am just basing this off of average WOT boost.

Stock boost

• Daily driver : OE is fine
• Spirited Driving : OE is fine
• Autocross or tracking : OE is fine, but if you are in boost often then an aftermarket will benefit you in keeping iat's down and prevent timing retard due to intake temps.
  

Up to a 12 psi tune

• Daily Driver : OE is fine
• Spirited Driving : OE, but you could start to benefit from an aftermarket unit.
• Autocross or Tracking : Aftermarket unit recommended for extended peak performance

12-15 psi tune

• Daily Driver : OE is fine for short freeway entry ramp bursts.
• Spirited Driving : OE, but you could start to benefit from an aftermarket unit.
• Autocross or Tracking : Here is where I recommend a mandatory upgrade to a better FMIC.

>15 psi tune

• Daily Driver : OE will be fine, but to avoid knock when accelerating hard I recommend a better FMIC.
• Spirited Driving : After market FMIC for continual peak performance.
• Autocross or Tracking : If you want to go more than one lap and make the power that you are aiming for then yes, you need an FMIC.

no offense Jhoops, but i disagree with your analysis. i don't track my car (with the exception of an occasional drag strip run or 2). i've had the jb+ on the stock intercooler, at 12psi or so, and the stock IC was not effective at all after a 2-3-4 pull. i had the jb3 on the stock intercooler, and it was even worse at 13-14psi. it would take a while for the IATs to reduce. i think if you're tuned, you need an intercooler. period.


the stock intercooler is barely effective enough on the stock boost levels. increasing boost to only 12psi generates a lot more heat in the charge temp. heat that the stock intercooler is not able to deal with.

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by bryce

no offense Jhoops, but i disagree with your analysis. i don't track my car (with the exception of an occasional drag strip run or 2). i've had the jb+ on the stock intercooler, at 12psi or so, and the stock IC was not effective at all after a 2-3-4 pull. i had the jb3 on the stock intercooler, and it was even worse at 13-14psi. it would take a while for the IATs to reduce. i think if you're tuned, you need an intercooler. period.


the stock intercooler is barely effective enough on the stock boost levels. increasing boost to only 12psi generates a lot more heat in the charge temp. heat that the stock intercooler is not able to deal with.

You just summed up pretty much what I said. My definition of daily driver is someone that pretty much never goes past half throttle. Also said that for any aggressive driving that anything from 12 Psi and up would benefit from a better FMIC. I have my own dynojet, and I have noted that I don't see a lot off power drop off up to12 Psi on back to back runs. Maybe 5-7 HP at the most. Yes, temps are high but I have not seen a significant drop off at those levels.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

You just summed up pretty much what I said. My definition of daily driver is someone that pretty much never goes past half throttle. Also said that for any aggressive driving that anything from 12 Psi and up would benefit from a better FMIC. I have my own dynojet, and I have noted that I don't see a lot off power drop off up to12 Psi on back to back runs. Maybe 5-7 HP at the most. Yes, temps are high but I have not seen a significant drop off at those levels.

Originally Posted by bryce

no offense Jhoops, but i disagree with your analysis. i don't track my car (with the exception of an occasional drag strip run or 2). i've had the jb+ on the stock intercooler, at 12psi or so, and the stock IC was not effective at all after a 2-3-4 pull. i had the jb3 on the stock intercooler, and it was even worse at 13-14psi. it would take a while for the IATs to reduce. i think if you're tuned, you need an intercooler. period.


the stock intercooler is barely effective enough on the stock boost levels. increasing boost to only 12psi generates a lot more heat in the charge temp. heat that the stock intercooler is not able to deal with.

that was my main point.

[bryce]

also, i sincerely doubt anyone with a 12-15+psi tune would never go over half throttle. so the whole basis of "daily driver" is incorrect

[poorlilpoop]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

FWIW, I paid $599 for my AA sport IC in a GP that is still going on. The quality is top notch and appears to do exactly what I expected it to do.

Hey, how do you like the AA sport IC? I just saw the post, and I am very close to buying it but I wanted to talk to someone who has one first.

It sounded like a very good deal, and it doesn't look very hard to install it, even with trimming.

Thanks.

p.s. i apologize for hijacking the thread. I did not even realize I was do so.

[2012one35i]

This thread is officially lost in the woods.........

[1Pirate]

I ordered the ETS intercooler from Harold at HP today. I was sold on the fact that it is a direct bolt on.

[Edogg218]

Originally Posted by 2012one35i

This thread is officially lost in the woods.........

I'll help to get it back on track

With GIAC Stage I and no other bolt-ons, I've been observing my air intake temps through my P3 gauge while driving. With the 80+ degree weather we've been having, I want to post my observations:

1.) On start-up, and until the car gets warm, my IATs are at ambient or 1-2 degrees above ambient

2.) Once the car is at operating temp, the IATs average 15-20 degrees above ambient while cruising. Keeping engine RPM below 2K, as I do when cruising, actually causes the temperature to increase, and raising engine speed brings it back down to 15-20 degrees above.

3.) When accelerating at WOT through the gears, temps will spike 5 degrees above cruising, but will rapidly recover in a minute or two. Repeated runs, such as on a curvy-not-to-be-named back road, do not seem to raise the temperature more than 25-30 degrees above ambient.

4.) Stop-and-go traffic will cause IATs to quickly climb, but they immediately fall back to cruising temps once you are moving.

I've done a lot of research on intercooler upgrades on this and other forums, and installed a FMIC and meth on my 04 V70R. On the Volvo, the cruising temps with FMIC and without meth were always at ambient, or maybe 1-2 degrees above.

What behavior are you all experiencing with aftermarket FMICs? Is it really that much better than what I've posted above? Can I get what I had with the Volvo?

[2012one35i]

Originally Posted by Edogg218

Repeated runs, such as on a curvy-not-to-be-named back road, do not seem to raise the temperature more than 25-30 degrees above ambient.

4.) Stop-and-go traffic will cause IATs to quickly climb, but they immediately fall back to cruising temps once you are moving.

Edogg,
these two statements suggest the intercooler you are running, which I assume is the stock intercooler, is performing adequately at your current power level. Is this correct, or am I misunderstanding?

P.S. Thanks for bringing this thread back from the edge!

[1Pirate]

Originally Posted by Edogg218

I'll help to get it back on track

With GIAC Stage I and no other bolt-ons, I've been observing my air intake temps through my P3 gauge while driving. With the 80+ degree weather we've been having, I want to post my observations:

1.) On start-up, and until the car gets warm, my IATs are at ambient or 1-2 degrees above ambient

2.) Once the car is at operating temp, the IATs average 15-20 degrees above ambient while cruising. Keeping engine RPM below 2K, as I do when cruising, actually causes the temperature to increase, and raising engine speed brings it back down to 15-20 degrees above.

3.) When accelerating at WOT through the gears, temps will spike 5 degrees above cruising, but will rapidly recover in a minute or two. Repeated runs, such as on a curvy-not-to-be-named back road, do not seem to raise the temperature more than 25-30 degrees above ambient.

4.) Stop-and-go traffic will cause IATs to quickly climb, but they immediately fall back to cruising temps once you are moving.

I've done a lot of research on intercooler upgrades on this and other forums, and installed a FMIC and meth on my 04 V70R. On the Volvo, the cruising temps with FMIC and without meth were always at ambient, or maybe 1-2 degrees above.

What behavior are you all experiencing with aftermarket FMICs? Is it really that much better than what I've posted above? Can I get what I had with the Volvo?

Your observations are similar to mine. I monitor my IATs (and other items like fuel trims and coolant temp) using a Scanguage II. I have the Scanguage mounted on an aluminum bracket on the dash beside the driver's side A pillar. My car also has the Dinan Stage 2 tune.

My goal with the new ETS intercooler I ordered last week is to reduce my IATs once the car has reached normal operating temperature to within 5 degrees of ambient in normal driving rather than the 15 to 20 degrees above ambient that I normally see. I also hope that the new intercooler will slow the spike in IATs during spirited driving and allow for a quicker cooldown of IATs afterwards.

[TunedM2C]

^I'm looking forward to your testing.

[1Pirate]

I'll post the results once I get the new intercooler installed. One would thingk that an aftermarket intercooler has got to help reduce IATs closer to ambient, the question is how much.

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by Edogg218

I'll help to get it back on track

With GIAC Stage I and no other bolt-ons, I've been observing my air intake temps through my P3 gauge while driving. With the 80+ degree weather we've been having, I want to post my observations:

1.) On start-up, and until the car gets warm, my IATs are at ambient or 1-2 degrees above ambient

2.) Once the car is at operating temp, the IATs average 15-20 degrees above ambient while cruising. Keeping engine RPM below 2K, as I do when cruising, actually causes the temperature to increase, and raising engine speed brings it back down to 15-20 degrees above.

3.) When accelerating at WOT through the gears, temps will spike 5 degrees above cruising, but will rapidly recover in a minute or two. Repeated runs, such as on a curvy-not-to-be-named back road, do not seem to raise the temperature more than 25-30 degrees above ambient.

4.) Stop-and-go traffic will cause IATs to quickly climb, but they immediately fall back to cruising temps once you are moving.

I've done a lot of research on intercooler upgrades on this and other forums, and installed a FMIC and meth on my 04 V70R. On the Volvo, the cruising temps with FMIC and without meth were always at ambient, or maybe 1-2 degrees above.

What behavior are you all experiencing with aftermarket FMICs? Is it really that much better than what I've posted above? Can I get what I had with the Volvo?

Is this with the stock airbox or DCI? All of my observed temps were with the Injen DCI.

[Edogg218]

Stock airbox with drop-in.

[1Pirate]

My ETS intercooler arrived late yesterday. Unfortunately with my schedule the rest of this week and this coming weekend it's going to be next week before I can get it installed.

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by 1Pirate

My ETS intercooler arrived late yesterday. Unfortunately with my schedule the rest of this week and this coming weekend it's going to be next week before I can get it installed.

Very nice! I almost pulled the trigger on the ETS unit, but the AA was $100 cheaper (group buy) and slightly larger so I went that direction. I've never heard anything negative about the ETS. I did my install using Race ramps. Piece of cake and I had to do some cutting. You should be able to do the ETS install in under 2 hours easy. If I lived close to you I could install it for you in about 45 minutes now that I have the experience.

[1Pirate]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

Very nice! I almost pulled the trigger on the ETS unit, but the AA was $100 cheaper (group buy) and slightly larger so I went that direction. I've never heard anything negative about the ETS. I did my install using Race ramps. Piece of cake and I had to do some cutting. You should be able to do the ETS install in under 2 hours easy. If I lived close to you I could install it for you in about 45 minutes now that I have the experience.

Congrats on your intercooler and thanks for the info. I was guessing the ETS intercooler should take 2 hours or less to install. I've already printed out a DIY with pictures. I have a buddy who is going to help me. He has installed several aftermarket intercoolers on cars he's owned, including most recently on his 2011 GTI. And he has a lift in his garage which will make the job even easier.

[2012one35i]

Thanks for posting, everyone. Just bought the ETS intercooler and piping kit. The R&D techs at ETS will be installing it for me in the upcoming weeks, as they are in my area. I expect greater reliability and more consistant air temps with this setup. Again, thanks for everyones input.

[JHOOPS2]

Great choice! As I said before, if it wasn't for the AA being slightly larger and cheaper at the time then I would have definitely went with the ETS unit. Congrats!