01-02-2015, 06:39 PM | #89 | |
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E30... First 3 series M car... the E30 M3 - limited in production clearly a classic..... crazy resale values... E8x... First 1/2 series M car.. the 1 M.... limited in production... Already a cult classic.. crazy resale values... ok...so i have made my case.. how about you tell me WHY IT WON'T BE ... seeing what has happened with the 1M to date? Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 01-02-2015 at 06:49 PM.. |
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01-02-2015, 06:51 PM | #92 |
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Well.....
Pretty happy with my plain-jane 135. I get compliments all the time - rare color with good aesthetic mods, and to enthusiasts, they know what it is. I haven't spent a fortune (more like 5k) and have a LSD and as much power as a 1M. Throw in coilovers and while the 1M is still better setup in terms of suspension, purely in factual terms - the performance is absolutely close enough at that point that a good driver can easily overtake a 1M at the track, despite the fact that the 1M has a slight technical advantage. The only real point you could argue is that the 1M supports wider tires - but even that has diminishing returns on this car because with a big enough square setup that loads the front wheel wells really wide, you'll understeer pretty bad. Let's not overstate things here, though, people. I've seen guys in bone stock E30 M3s overtake e9x M3 at the track. These are ALL highly capable cars we're talking about. I want an E9x M3 because the motor is special. I want an E60 M5 because the motor is special. I want an E30 because it's iconic. I want a 1M because I've always loved how the 1-series is the 'odd duck' so-to-speak of BMWs recent lineups, and the 1M sets itself apart. Not a single one of those cars (sorry e9x guys) is THAT special - they each have a very cool appeal in a particular dimension i.e. e9x not that special on the whole but who wouldn't love to listen to that V8 every day? I sure would. (arguably the E30 is wholly special because it ushered in a whole new level of performance for BMW in a street car). And every one of these cars we're talking about has a soul - they all have character when you drive them. Regarding comparisons to Porsches - given equal driver skill, BMWs will always falter at the track in the face of higher-end cars like Porsche that are built specifically for the track much moreso than a BMW. BMW has always been about balance and manners across the board - the reason M3 was THE gold standard for 20 years, was because they did so much right, and were still healthily above average in the performance/tracking department. At the end of the day, all of these cars make great DDs and fun HPDE cars - but not a single one will ever come close to competing with a GT3 or any other higher-end porsche. If I could, I'd have many BMWs. All too often this talk of the 1M degrades into bullshit between (usually) M3 guys and 1-series owners. People should be a bit more pragmatic and realize that neither one of those cars are race cars - they are well balanced DDs that are track-oriented and allow for a lot of fun at an HPDE. BMW has perhaps one of the largest number of models that have gained cult-followings from enthusiasts over the years - the 2002, the e30, e46 M3, any Z with an M badge, etc. I'm sure the 1M will show some depreciation but not much - it will always have a cult following, regardless of what the M2 does. I probably will never buy a 1M, but they are undeniably F'ing cool cars. But if pure performance is your desire, then I liken it to the same argument people have made against the porsche - 50-60k for the 1M vs. 115k for the porsche; for 99% of the population, the performance difference would go unnoticed. I can buy a clean 135i for low 20's, throw 7k into it maybe, and have VERY comparable performance to a 1M which would cost me 30k more. That's a damn hefty price difference for a relatively low difference in performance. I personally think they are just such beautiful cars - if I had money I wanted to light a match to, I would buy a 1M and just look at it every day for 20 minutes. I'm definitely in the camp of people who think the 1-series is a beautiful car.
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01-02-2015, 07:06 PM | #93 | |
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Hell, I've never even used the sport button or take it out when the winds are over 10km/h (flying debris risk). Whenever I want to drive a real car I remove the groceries from the trunk and flog my mom's e92 M3. |
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01-02-2015, 07:53 PM | #94 |
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When the F80 M3/M4 comes out you will see a lot of 1M for sale.... When the M235 comes out everybody is going to ditch their glorified 1 series.... .When the M2 comes out they would trade those Frankensteins..... when... When.... Only then....
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01-03-2015, 12:59 AM | #95 | |
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Yes, Pobst's opinion is just one of many and based mostly on track capabilities. But that is an important factor on a car like this and is something I consider. A lot of today's car reviewers, Jeremy Clarkson, Chris Harris etc love to drift cars and talk about balance when doing so. That is all fine and good and probably a lot of fun, but the fastest way around a track ain't sideways throwing the tail out. Maybe that is where the reviews get mixed up? I think the point that numerous people are trying to make here, in a respect full way, is that the 1M is special, but wouldn't be THAT special had BMW not artificially created such a demand for it with the limited production. Which is also why the resale has been so good. That is economics 101. Sure a car needs to be somewhat capable, or a limited production means nothing, but we are talking about an M car after all, and BMW has not made a bad M car yet, so that was kind of a no brainer that it would be sought after. All that being said, I'd love to own one, and wish I had gotten one when they were introduced, because I would have been able to drive it for 3-4 year with nearly no depreciation. There are two huge pluses to the 1M. Value retention and exclusivity. However looks wise and performance wise it is not the best BMW has to offer. Trust me I know the feeling I have a e30 M3. It is not the best performing BMW, but it retains its value and is exclusive. I get it! |
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01-03-2015, 08:35 AM | #96 | ||
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Oh and my biggest criticism of the 1M isn't its short wheel base and the instability that goes along with it, or explaining its a 1M not an M1, the real negative to be spoken of is the aerodynamics imo, it just loses steam, still tons of power but you feel the drag as you get into triple digits and lessor powered cars hang pretty well.
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01-03-2015, 09:40 AM | #97 | ||
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looks wise and performance wise (directness, rawness, urgency, simplicity)....there is no equal to the 1M in the modern lineup....which is why it's so desirable. Your experiences are from a track day of a few wave by passes...sorry but that's inadequate to evaluate the merits of a car....if anything that's more adequate to assess driver abilities. The Pobst review is a total statistical outlier and I can't take it seriously at all. the reality is that nearly everyone gushed about this car and it punches above it's weight and price point. as for the E30 M3....I love it. It's the first BMW I ever fell in love with.... |
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01-03-2015, 10:07 AM | #98 | |
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01-03-2015, 10:10 AM | #99 | |
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Happy New Year! As usual spoken like an engineer dedicated to facts .... For me we are all just a bunch of A+ car lovers having "spirited" discussions. Peace, love and BMW's! |
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01-03-2015, 10:37 AM | #100 | ||
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01-03-2015, 10:57 AM | #101 | |
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Did you even read the last sentence of my previous posting? I said that there are better BMW performance cars than the e30 M3. I also wrote earlier that mine is set up for track. It is far from stock, but the point was that my hp to weight was the same as the 1M and we were on the exact same tires. I also said it might not mean much, so I thought it was clear that I just shared my experience. Yes, it means very little and was only one encounter, but how often do I, or anybody else for that matter, have a chance to drive against a 1M on the track? And what are the odds of us being in the same run group and have the same tires? Pretty darn small chance of that ever happening with only 800 cars in this country, so I thought it was interesting and worth sharing. There are numerous people in this thread that stated the exact same thing. That the 1M is a great car and has a tremendous resale value, but both those factors are skewed by the limited production numbers. Why is that so hard to understand for you? I am happy you love the car so much and think the world of it. It is a great car and I would be proud to own one as well, but that would not mean that I can't objectively see why the prices of are where they are. There are plenty of cars that the automotive press marvels over, even more so than the 1M, but guess what, those cars depreciate over the years, when they aren't built in limited numbers. |
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01-03-2015, 11:15 AM | #102 | ||
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01-03-2015, 11:27 AM | #103 | |
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01-03-2015, 11:36 AM | #104 |
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I think the GM at my local BMW dealership said it best. Name one other car that went up in value the minute you bought it. Of course, we are talking about non-exotics.
Remember, many of us bought ours at MSRP or less (Euro Del= $47k, as in my case). I took a a$$ whipping when I bought the "special" TT-RS. Don't blame those that didn't get one for not understanding.
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01-03-2015, 11:41 AM | #105 | ||
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I want to say that you're being very reasonable though, the 1M is better than the sum of its parts, it came together to be a very fun car, it's proportions are nearly comically square(super wide body due to being the width of a wide body 3, the m3)which the m2 won't be and most cars aren't for better or worse, but it's not a magical porsche beater and equally modded m3's are certainly equals tough to hang with in higher speed sections where they're more composed, I think I'm having more fun in my little bulldog 1m though, but it is so "special" and retains its value because it's good enough to have had a nearly unlimited run of cars made and purchased but didn't. The rarity teamed with it being a formula fit for enthusiasts and that it is an awkwardly awesome end result creates the high values and attention, not its track prowess. Any old corvette is a better track car.
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01-03-2015, 11:41 AM | #106 |
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01-03-2015, 11:44 AM | #107 |
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Oh and its hella fun to go from 5mph-60mph or so on the street the same way any n54 is but with the ability to put the power down like no other n54 based car can
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01-03-2015, 11:48 AM | #108 | |
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01-03-2015, 12:29 PM | #110 |
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overvalued?! what kind of 'value' are we talking about? economical? emotional? cool factor? in many of those terms, it's hard to put a price tag on this thing, to me at least...
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