If you were BMW

[ManMachine]

Originally Posted by spudwest

...Everybody knows that the N52 in the 128i could easily produce 30 bhp more, as it currently does in the X3is and in the Euro 130i hatch...

The N52 in X3 is a bit weird. If you look at the hp and torque figure compared to the one in the *28i, the ones in *28i are very smooth and linear, while the one in X3 zig and zag a bit and go up and down. The N52 in the 2006 330i is a bit like that too.

[spudw]

Originally Posted by Dan203

What about an ix version with AWD?

What would be interesting would be an AWD model in 5-door layout with a turbo diesel motor. A real tree-hugger, backwoods, Eddie Bauer kind of 1er...

[spudw]

Originally Posted by ManMachine

The N52 in X3 is a bit weird. If you look at the hp and torque figure compared to the one in the *28i, the ones in *28i are very smooth and linear, while the one in X3 zig and zag a bit and go up and down. The N52 in the 2006 330i is a bit like that too.

I know what you mean. My Dad's X3is delivers the power very unlike his 2001 530i (which I think was also had an N52 predecessor??) help me out, here...

[LeifW]

Originally Posted by spudwest

130i Coupe (260bhp, $29,900)
Standard features would be ~the same as 128i, but xenons, CA and USB connection would also be standard. Same option packages as 128i, except sport package would be an '///M Sport' package.

This would be the sweet spot for me.


Leif W.

[hector]

Originally Posted by GT3

...

Here's my opinion:

N52 128i Coupe - 230/200 - $27,100
N52 128i Vert - 230/200 - $32,100

N54 135i Coupe - 300/300 - $33,100
N54 135i Vert - 300/300 - $38,100

N54 135 ///M Coupe - 350/350 with lower CW, upgraded suspension, chassis, brakes and M goodies - $44,900
N54 135 ///M Vert - 350/350 with lower CW, upgraded suspension, chassis, brakes and M goodies - $47,900
...

that would be a nice line-up(if oil cost 60/barrel and existed in infinite supply).
i say; drop all the na engines in favor of lesser displacement 4cyl. turbos, be they diesel or petrol, thereby knocking a few pounds off the vehicle and significantly imcreasing mpg. of course these engines could be packaged into the bay much more efficiently allowing the front end to be shorter which would save even more weight and enhance symmetry of the overall design. so i guess what i'm saying is that instead of creating an e46 compact bmw should have created a modern-day e36. oh well, as far as i'm concerned 2011 can't come soon enough.

[ManMachine]

I don't think the xi version is good for the image of the car, but of course it offers people more choices. Given the volume of the 1 series, though, I don't see it happening any time soon. Not sure how much more complexity the xdrive system will add to the car, but it will definitely make it heavier and less fun on dry pavement.

[asv]

An M1 would start at at least $45,000 base.

[hector]

Originally Posted by ManMachine

I don't think the xi version is good for the image of the car ...

i 'd rather see a z1/2 than an x1 but with a much shorter hood than the z4.

[E82tt6]

123d: True entry level, stupid fuel economy,$25,000 with cloth seats

130i: 270/230 $32,000

135i (135tii?): 380/380 $39,000

134 ///M Coupe: 3.4l I6 NA, revs very, very high. 442hp for specific output reccord among "production car". 290ft lbs? One can dream ($45,500)

OR

123 25k

130 31k

135: 380/380 37k

135tii: 440/400 46k

No M car for yoooz

In 2010 the M3 will be phasing out, so no worries about stepping on it's toes. I predict the X6 TTV8 will also be "tweaked" to make 450/450, with the M3 out of the picture.

[Dan203]

Originally Posted by ManMachine

I don't think the xi version is good for the image of the car, but of course it offers people more choices. Given the volume of the 1 series, though, I don't see it happening any time soon. Not sure how much more complexity the xdrive system will add to the car, but it will definitely make it heavier and less fun on dry pavement.

While there is a weight disadvantage to AWD. However AWD has a slight advantage in a launch from a dead stop. It's not enough to completely negate the added weight, but it does make the 0-60 times much closer.

Dan

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by Dan203

Diesel, really? Last time I looked diesel fuel was almost $0.30 per gallon more then premium gasoline. Seems like any fuel economy savings you might get from a diesel would be out the window with the added cost of the fuel.

Dan

You are right, except for the part about the math.

123d would most likely get 45 mpg on the highway based upon the new 2008 EPA test. 15,000 miles/45mpg = 333 gallons of diesel. At $4 bucks a gallon, that is $1,333 dollars a year.

The best gasoline MPG 1-series is the 128i coupe with a manual transmission. It is EPA rated at 28 mpg highway. 15,000 miles/28mpg = 535 gallons of premium. At 30 cents/gallon cheaper ($3.70 a gallon), that would be $1,982 dollars a year.

Premium gas would have to be $2.50 a gallon compared to $4.00 diesel before the price difference in fuel would offset the fuel economy differences between a 123d and a 128i.

If you get into some of the real world numbers that some people have been seeing with their 135i's (18 mpg!) and the numbers just get worse. 15,000 miles/18 mpg = 833 gallons of premium, times $3.70/gallon = $3,083 per year. On a 4 year, 15k mile a year lease, that would be $12,333 dollars over the life of the lease. Even if the real life 123d mpg numbers were only 35 mpg, you would only spend $6,857 over the 4 year lease for diesel at $4/gallon.

Sure, only bean counters care about saving nearly $6,000 dollars on a 4 year car lease. All of us elitist BMW buyers are pretentiously rich and have $6,000 to (literally) burn, and would never consider such a petty factor when buying the Ultimate Driving Machine. So BMW would be fools to try and sell us these loud, smelly, rattley tractors like the 123d....

[Nixon]

With my last post in mind, if I were a BMW exec, my first decision would be to bet on whether or not California would get their EPA waiver under a new administration. Anticipating a California victory, I would be putting greener cars on the market with the next facelift, instead of waiting for the hammer to fall on 2014 MY cars.

Coinciding with the 2010 update across the 1-series line, I would put out the following cars in the US (prices include continued fall in USD value):

123d coupe 215/320 $30,000
130i coupe 255/230 $32,000
137i coupe 330/330 $37,000

Throw in some converts, and lighten the entire 1-series line of cars to get better fuel mileage and better performance across the board. Focus money on taking weight out of the cars to gain performance instead of boosting engine output. Tii would be offered as a trim package on the 137i, starting a year later, and would include CF goodies and a 'ZHP' style power bump and suspension tweaks. The 137i would be marketed back-to-back with 337i's to battle against G37's that seem to be holding their own against the 335i in magazine head-on-head battles.

[spudw]

^ Nixon, I like your way of thinking. As with LeifW, the 130i as you have described it, would hit the sweet sport for me, as it would for the majority of enthusiast. This would allow BMW to get more creative and ambitious with a 137i/137tii/M137i/M1 variant and price it appropriately. This is a model where the sky could be the limit, as long as they keep a enrty-level/fuel-efficient variant and a more moderate enthusiast variant within reach.

[Dan203]

I didn't realize the MPG difference was so high. I thought it was like maybe 10mpg difference between the two.

Personally I only drive 2-3K miles a year, so the cost of gas is a pretty insignificant part of my monthly expenses. Maybe if I had a longer commute I'd care more about gas mileage.

Dan

Originally Posted by Nixon

You are right, except for the part about the math.

123d would most likely get 45 mpg on the highway based upon the new 2008 EPA test. 15,000 miles/45mpg = 333 gallons of diesel. At $4 bucks a gallon, that is $1,333 dollars a year.

The best gasoline MPG 1-series is the 128i coupe with a manual transmission. It is EPA rated at 28 mpg highway. 15,000 miles/28mpg = 535 gallons of premium. At 30 cents/gallon cheaper ($3.70 a gallon), that would be $1,982 dollars a year.

Premium gas would have to be $2.50 a gallon compared to $4.00 diesel before the price difference in fuel would offset the fuel economy differences between a 123d and a 128i.

If you get into some of the real world numbers that some people have been seeing with their 135i's (18 mpg!) and the numbers just get worse. 15,000 miles/18 mpg = 833 gallons of premium, times $3.70/gallon = $3,083 per year. On a 4 year, 15k mile a year lease, that would be $12,333 dollars over the life of the lease. Even if the real life 123d mpg numbers were only 35 mpg, you would only spend $6,857 over the 4 year lease for diesel at $4/gallon.

Sure, only bean counters care about saving nearly $6,000 dollars on a 4 year car lease. All of us elitist BMW buyers are pretentiously rich and have $6,000 to (literally) burn, and would never consider such a petty factor when buying the Ultimate Driving Machine. So BMW would be fools to try and sell us these loud, smelly, rattley tractors like the 123d....

[Mad Dragon]

Some of these ideas are pretty far-fetched. If you want a 4-door sedan or xDrive, you might as well buy an E90.

[spudw]

^ not if you want a compact car. 1 Series and 3 Series are not interchangeable. But I agree that a 4-door is unlikely.

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by Dan203

Personally I only drive 2-3K miles a year, so the cost of gas is a pretty insignificant part of my monthly expenses. Maybe if I had a longer commute I'd care more about gas mileage.
Dan

Heck, at just 2,000 miles a year, you could get a Lamborghini Murcielago (8mpg city/13 mpg highway) and still only spend about $500 bucks a year on gas.

Buying a more fuel efficient BMW instead of a 135i would save you less than 50 bucks a year. You've got it made!

[Dan203]

Originally Posted by Nixon

You've got it made!

I agree! My "commute" consists of waking up and walking down the hall to my office. I work from home so really the only time I drive is when I go out is for leisure or to run errands.

Dan