Best suspension for Daily Driver / Backroads Dancer 135i

[135ivert]

Originally Posted by tjswarbrick

It may be a while before I get a chance to install them - but I've pulled the trigger on Koni Yellows and Swift Spec-R's. Getting different bump stops, replacement shock mounts, and putting in the Dinan camber plates.
At the same time, I should be installing the E92 M3 sway bar and black poly RSFB inserts.

I'm doing as much reading as I can to determine preliminary shock settings - particularly for the rear - but if anyone has suggestions feel free to chime in.
Looking for 'er to be my twisty road dance partner - not a track attack car.
I'll probably have the Dunlop RFT's on when I install the suspension, but plan an upgrade to 225/40 F and 245/35R Michelin PSS. Unless they cause problems, I'll keep my 4 12mm spacers in place.

A recent upgrade I highly recommend: Mason Engineering strut bar. Installation wasn't easy but as an E88 owner I consider this one of my favorite mods.

[tjswarbrick]

Originally Posted by 135ivert

A recent upgrade I highly recommend: Mason Engineering strut bar. Installation wasn't easym but as an E88 owner I consider this one of my favorite mods.

Looks beefy.
Did you get the open-platform one? Any problem using it with camber plates and adjustable shocks with the N55?
I've read about fitment problems on E88's and not much benefit on E82's so hadn't really thought about adding one.

[135ivert]

Originally Posted by tjswarbrick

Looks beefy.
Did you get the open-platform one? Any problem using it with camber plates and adjustable shocks with the N55?
I've read about fitment problems on E88's and not much benefit on E82's so hadn't really thought about adding one.

No camber plates yet, so I can't attest to that. I bought it from a fellow forum member so I'm not sure which version of this it is. Fitment was a bit off - probably due to a difference in tolerances between the BMW and the bar. If I had the tools to grind off some metal it would have been much easier.

As far as the benefit - on an E88 it's huge. I thought you had an E88?

[tjswarbrick]

Originally Posted by 135ivert

No camber plates yet, so I can't attest to that. I bought it from a fellow forum member so I'm not sure which version of this it is. Fitment was a bit off - probably due to a difference in tolerances between the BMW and the bar. If I had the tools to grind off some metal it would have been much easier.

As far as the benefit - on an E88 it's huge. I thought you had an E88?

Indeed I do.
Just hadn't seen enough reviews to form an opinion.
Though if the tower brace works as intended it could go a long way to bringing back the structural rigidity lost in chopping off the roof.
Cowl shake isn't bad, but I do get the occasional creak/snap in the forward part of the cabin.

I'll see how the new components do, and if I feel the front end needs some stiffening I now know where to turn.
Thanks!

[tjswarbrick]

Installed the E92 M3 FSB on Friday.
Attempted to install the Koni Sports and Swift Springs, but neither the strut tool I bought nor a good size screwdriver and lots of PB Blaster was enough for me to split the housing and remove the strut from the carrier.
So it looks like I'm off to a performance shop later this week to have it professionally done - and get the alignment.

On a side note, I'm signed up for the BMW CCA Car Control Clinic this weekend - so that should be fun - and a good test/break-in.

[tjswarbrick]

Just noticed that I never updated this thread.

I got the Dinan plates/Koni Sports/Swift Spec-R's/Powerflex RSFB's done a couple weeks ago. Set F&R camber at -1.7. Rear shocks at 3/4 turn from soft; fronts at 1.5 from soft.
It cured the pitching and side-stepping I used to get on mid-off-camber-turn bumps.
Turn in is just beautiful, and response is improved. Feels so much more buttoned-down, planted, and linear.
With the runflats, it did interesting things for the ride. Big bumps taken in stride, but the little ones could be a little brutal. More jarring, though the jiggly was largely eradicated. Sharp hits a little excessively harsh.

A week later, dumped the RFT's for MPSS. 225/40-18 F and 245/35-18 R.
Wow. Just WOW.
I thought I was going to need to back off the front struts a bit - but now the springs and dampers make perfect sense.
Steering is tight and precise.
Whole car feels planted and ready to go.
Big bumps that I see other cars bouncing around from just hit in one smooth, even motion and are forgotten.
Smaller bumps that used to jar me all over are just pitter-patter in the steering wheel.
Really ragged mid-size road rubbish is still transmitted, but the affect is so much less unpleasant than it used to be, and nothing out of line for the capability of the car.
Speaking of which - I am no longer able to find the traction limits on public roads. Ever. It just grips and grips. Events that used to flash the traction light (stock) no longer do, even at slightly elevated speeds with a bit more throttle.

It's not as cushy as an E46 330, but it is a joy to pilot pretty much everywhere, in any conditions (barring snow, of course.)
The one rainy day we had, my only modification to my driving routine was to close the top.

I'd swear that Koni, Swift and Michelin's top engineers got together and said "If WE were coming up with a ride/handling balance for this littlest of Bimmers, how would we set it up?"
So, I'd say I got my wish. Couldn't be happier.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by tjswarbrick

Just noticed that I never updated this thread.

I got the Dinan plates/Koni Sports/Swift Spec-R's/Powerflex RSFB's done a couple weeks ago. Set F&R camber at -1.7. Rear shocks at 3/4 turn from soft; fronts at 1.5 from soft.
It cured the pitching and side-stepping I used to get on mid-off-camber-turn bumps.
Turn in is just beautiful, and response is improved. Feels so much more buttoned-down, planted, and linear.
With the runflats, it did interesting things for the ride. Big bumps taken in stride, but the little ones could be a little brutal. More jarring, though the jiggly was largely eradicated. Sharp hits a little excessively harsh.

A week later, dumped the RFT's for MPSS. 225/40-18 F and 245/35-18 R.
Wow. Just WOW.
I thought I was going to need to back off the front struts a bit - but now the springs and dampers make perfect sense.
Steering is tight and precise.
Whole car feels planted and ready to go.
Big bumps that I see other cars bouncing around from just hit in one smooth, even motion and are forgotten.
Smaller bumps that used to jar me all over are just pitter-patter in the steering wheel.
Really ragged mid-size road rubbish is still transmitted, but the affect is so much less unpleasant than it used to be, and nothing out of line for the capability of the car.
Speaking of which - I am no longer able to find the traction limits on public roads. Ever. It just grips and grips. Events that used to flash the traction light (stock) no longer do, even at slightly elevated speeds with a bit more throttle.

It's not as cushy as an E46 330, but it is a joy to pilot pretty much everywhere, in any conditions (barring snow, of course.)
The one rainy day we had, my only modification to my driving routine was to close the top.

I'd swear that Koni, Swift and Michelin's top engineers got together and said "If WE were coming up with a ride/handling balance for this littlest of Bimmers, how would we set it up?"
So, I'd say I got my wish. Couldn't be happier.

How would you describe your feeling while driving the car with the new components? Like dis?



'cause that was me.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by tjswarbrick

Just noticed that I never updated this thread.

I got the Dinan plates/Koni Sports/Swift Spec-R's/Powerflex RSFB's done a couple weeks ago. Set F&R camber at -1.7. Rear shocks at 3/4 turn from soft; fronts at 1.5 from soft.
It cured the pitching and side-stepping I used to get on mid-off-camber-turn bumps.
Turn in is just beautiful, and response is improved. Feels so much more buttoned-down, planted, and linear.
With the runflats, it did interesting things for the ride. Big bumps taken in stride, but the little ones could be a little brutal. More jarring, though the jiggly was largely eradicated. Sharp hits a little excessively harsh.

A week later, dumped the RFT's for MPSS. 225/40-18 F and 245/35-18 R.
Wow. Just WOW.
I thought I was going to need to back off the front struts a bit - but now the springs and dampers make perfect sense.
Steering is tight and precise.
Whole car feels planted and ready to go.
Big bumps that I see other cars bouncing around from just hit in one smooth, even motion and are forgotten.
Smaller bumps that used to jar me all over are just pitter-patter in the steering wheel.
Really ragged mid-size road rubbish is still transmitted, but the affect is so much less unpleasant than it used to be, and nothing out of line for the capability of the car.
Speaking of which - I am no longer able to find the traction limits on public roads. Ever. It just grips and grips. Events that used to flash the traction light (stock) no longer do, even at slightly elevated speeds with a bit more throttle.

It's not as cushy as an E46 330, but it is a joy to pilot pretty much everywhere, in any conditions (barring snow, of course.)
The one rainy day we had, my only modification to my driving routine was to close the top.

I'd swear that Koni, Swift and Michelin's top engineers got together and said "If WE were coming up with a ride/handling balance for this littlest of Bimmers, how would we set it up?"
So, I'd say I got my wish. Couldn't be happier.

Koni Yellows with Swift Spec-R is a very good combo if not going with a coilover route. For easier adjustability TCKR spec rear shocks can be installed in place of the Yellows. With TCKR you will also gain more compression travel through the use of a short body shock.

[CRYA]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Koni Yellows with Swift Spec-R is a very good combo if not going with a coilover route. For easier adjustability TCKR spec rear shocks can be installed in place of the Yellows. With TCKR you will also gain more compression travel through the use of a short body shock.

What's the recommended front bumpstop for this setup or performance springs/koni/b8? I hadn't considered different bumpstops until I read something once.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by CRYA

What's the recommended front bumpstop for this setup or performance springs/koni/b8? I hadn't considered different bumpstops until I read something once.

Normally you shouldn't have any issues with the OEM bump stop. However, if you are at all concerned you can use these:

http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-E36-M3-Bu...ump-stopts.htm

[ASAP]

The 4 best lowerbody mods I made to my car were-

Apex EC7 wheels w MPSS
Koni Yellows
M3 Rsfb's

and Megan Racing Toe Arms

The ride was trash on runflats, I took them off and the car was all over the place with bounciness, extreme rebound over bumps and so forth. Threw on the Koni yellows and m3 bushings and all of the up and down motion disappeared, but now the side to side flex on acceleration was excessive (partially due to the fact that I have very good traction from 265 rears).... the megan racing toe arms w a realignment fixed this. I can say that now the car feels very solid, it would be pathetic to drive this car in its old setup... its no M car but I am very happy with it... if I was to do anything else it would be front m3 arms, sway bars and throw on a Quaife lsd.

[titium]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The 4 best lowerbody mods I made to my car were-

Apex EC7 wheels w MPSS
Koni Yellows
M3 Rsfb's

and Megan Racing Toe Arms

The ride was trash on runflats, I took them off and the car was all over the place with bounciness, extreme rebound over bumps and so forth. Threw on the Koni yellows and m3 bushings and all of the up and down motion disappeared, but now the side to side flex on acceleration was excessive (partially due to the fact that I have very good traction from 265 rears).... the megan racing toe arms w a realignment fixed this. I can say that now the car feels very solid, it would be pathetic to drive this car in its old setup... its no M car but I am very happy with it... if I was to do anything else it would be front m3 arms, sway bars and throw on a Quaife lsd.

try look around for a e92 m3 front sway off a wrecked car. huge difference in front end grip at the limit. I picked one up from the uk for 130 pounds. small ride quality penalty though totally worth it.

[tjswarbrick]

Originally Posted by titium

try look around for a e92 m3 front sway off a wrecked car. huge difference in front end grip at the limit. I picked one up from the uk for 130 pounds. small ride quality penalty though totally worth it.

I thought it improved ride quality!
Firms up the front nicely.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by titium

try look around for a e92 m3 front sway off a wrecked car. huge difference in front end grip at the limit. I picked one up from the uk for 130 pounds. small ride quality penalty though totally worth it.

will the car understeer more?

[tjswarbrick]

Originally Posted by ASAP

will the car understeer more?

I didn't get to push mine at the track until after swapping bar, bushings, springs and dampers, so I cannot comment directly.
In my limited experience in that scenario, however, I found it wonderfully balanced and easy - and fun! - to steer with the throttle - under- or over-steer easily available, and correctable, with judicious application/letting off encouraging a bit of weight transfer.

General consensus is our cars gain an lot of (positive) camber at the front during body roll, which contributes to understeer. Reducing front roll with an M3 bar counteracts the camber change, reducing this initial understeer. Going overboard with a huge aftermarket bar may bring it back by making the front too stiff.
Counteracting that with a big rear bar is a losing proposition without the addition of an LSD.

Anyone get a chance to really see the difference just a front bar makes on understeer?

[titium]

I ran the swift spec r's with konis for a about a year before putting in the sway. it made a pretty significant difference on its own. I can't see the need to go with anything firmer then the m3 e92 bar which kinda means it's the only real option. all the aftermarket ones are way too firm IMO.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by titium

I ran the swift spec r's with konis for a about a year before putting in the sway. it made a pretty significant difference on its own. I can't see the need to go with anything firmer then the m3 e92 bar which kinda means it's the only real option. all the aftermarket ones are way too firm IMO.

Either the E92 M3 or E93 M3 front bar would work.

Yes, most of the aftermarkets ones are too firm, unless you are running a complete stock suspension with very soft spring rates.

Some people with Swift and Koni eventually went to a true coiner conversion front and up the rates further.

[tjswarbrick]

Originally Posted by swagon

How would you describe your feeling while driving the car with the new components? Like dis?



'cause that was me.

Every day.
Every drive.
I can't believe how good it feels, and how well it responds.

[titium]

word of warning for those running swift spec r springs and have a fully loaded boot just destroyed my fuel filler neck from the wheel rubbing (stock wheels).

probably going to lift it up a little with the bmw rough road kit.

[John_01]

Not good! I did get some rubbing there with the R-comps following track days.

I believe this is partly caused by the TC Kline rear shocks being 1" shorter than the OE parts. Especially combined with the short 55mm bump stops included with the TCK shocks, it allows the car to have a bit too much bump travel. If the yellow Koni dampers have the same body length as the stock ones, they are less likely to have this problem.

[asbrr]

Originally Posted by titium

word of warning for those running swift spec r springs and have a fully loaded boot just destroyed my fuel filler neck from the wheel rubbing (stock wheels).

probably going to lift it up a little with the bmw rough road kit.

Holy crap - now I feel like I need to check things out as well, although I'm running a different setup I do have some mild rubbing of the fender liner.

[tjswarbrick]

Mine rubbed lightly for a couple weeks, and pretty hard for a day.
Removed the spacers and trouble is gone - but I need to get under there and make sure no damage was done.
(It did give the underside of my fenders a little roll.)