UPDATES on BMW 1M / M1 news, rumors, and speculation

[as7920]

For the UK at least I am hoping Nav will be standard as it is for the M3.

[MarcusDubya77]

Go to BMW build web site, and max out a 135i with options. Comes out around 47K, which I guess might be a good are to start with base of 1M.

[E82tt6]

Few simple predictions on my part. We'll see if I'm right or wrong. Most of these are based on how I expect them to market the car.

Pricing: The S4 is obviously this car's main competitor. How they market it will depend on how "up market" they want the car to seem by comparison. My guess is starting price within a grand of the S4 in either direction. Probably slightly cheaper optioned out. I think you'll probably see it below the invoice of the E90 M3 with Navi + Leather, and probably just below the E92 with an "///M Drive" type option added in. So that'd be 44,900-46,900 starting price, about 50k, and 52-53 relatively loaded. IMHO, it will be cheaper than the 335iS.

Engine: 353 or 359hp, depending on if they'd like to advertise 20 more HP than the S4, or 25. I'd be astonished if it were less than 350. They'll want the number "20" in people's heads when comparing it to the S4. 340something vs 330something is 10 to people, but 330something vs 350 is 20, even if it's only a 17hp difference.

Engine designation will probably be S56. They can't call it an S54, and they'll want to differentiate it from the N55 in people's minds. I Could see a different number if they intent this to be the engine the next gen M3 is based upon, which seems like a good possibility. Listening to the N-Ring test track video, it sounds more like an N54, but the engines are similar enough in sound that it's impossible to state conclusively.

Either way, I'd expect peak torque to be rated at 2,000 rpms, maybe 2,200 if they're going with a turbo that will generate peak power at redline( so they can market is as offering high end power like a traditional M Car). I'd expect peak power to be rated at somewhere between 6,300 and 6,700 RPMs. 6,800 or 6,900 is possible, but I'm not sure if that's realistic. Given they've been drawing comparisons to the E30 M3, I couldn't imagine power peaking below 6k like in the N54/55. They'll have a tough time marketing the engine to BMW enthusiasts, particularly M owners, if there aren't (good) differences in power delivery between that engine and the N54/55. If the engine feel anemic up top to a guy that drove an E46 M3 into the dealer to test drive the car, it will not sell. Most test-drives are done in a straight line, and if someone can't drive it back to back with an N55 car without being wowed, they will not sell any. If the optimal shift point is nearly a thousand RPMs below redline, they'll be laughed at in the car rags.

I'd expect relatively significant technical difference between the new engine and the N54/55, it'd help marketing. Certainly a different turbo, different IC, different cooling, and probably some internal engine difference that may or may not matter (heads, valve ports, pistons, that sort of thing). I wouldn't be surprised if they used a different ECU, even if its sole purpose is to frustrate tuners for a month or two.

I'd expect them to rate 0-60 at 4.8/4.6 for manual/DCT. They have to market it as quicker than the S4, without stepping on the M3's toes.

[ORIGIN M.]

^ Sorry, but I don't think the S4 and the 1M will in general have the same type of buyers.

Originally Posted by Dackelone

M0 anyone?

Now that is funny!

[manuelf]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

^ Sorry, but I don't think the S4 and the 1M will in general have the same type of buyers.

Correct. The direct competitor wil be the RS3 - nothing else.

[JimmyT]

Originally Posted by manuelf

Correct. The direct competitor wil be the RS3 - nothing else.

The RS 3 will NEVER come to the US market, so the cars made by Audi that will compete with the 1M are the TTs and the S4.

[Madozu]

Originally Posted by manuelf

Correct. The direct competitor wil be the RS3 - nothing else.

100% agree

These are the two cars I'll test-drive next year (if the RS3 hits the dealers next year in Europe)

[///M1]

Originally Posted by manuelf

Correct. The direct competitor wil be the RS3 - nothing else.

+2 The S4 is no way near a comparable nor competitor to the 1 ///M.

As far as the RS3, an argument can be made it will be AWD and a hatch. So technically if we start relaxing those requirement, one can include the Focus RS, Renault Megane R, etc. Bottom line is, the 1 ///M really doesn't have a 1-1 competitor. Probably the closest is E46 M3

[SCOTT26]

You have to put your faith in that the M Division and their specialised engineers know exactly what they need to achieve with this car.
Be rest assured that by the time people get to drive the first production models then everything will have been completed with the upmost precision.
This is one of the reasons why you will not see the new M5 until September 2011.
Every aspect of the car is being adhered to and they are being particular meticulous on producing the car to the driving standards expected of a BMW M Car. On the 1M Dr. Kay Segler went personal and when have you ever seen a car company do that for enthusiasts. He also made a guarantee to the viewer that the car will be M in it's most purist form.

As for competition? as a car like the 1M as it stands there is no direct competitor , but the cars that have been evaluated alongside it by M Division include the Audi TTRS, Porsche Cayman and popular European models from Ford and Renault, One competitor which will also follow BMW with the 1M late in it's cycle will be the Audi RS3 expected next year as a similar run out model. It will possibly have more power and straightline speed and advantage of AWD. But given the poor repuation of the A3 to drive? dont expect dynamics and handling to be anywhere near the 1M.

[Spartikus]

Thanks for the info, Scott. I still refuse to believe that this is the same engine found in the iS cars. That would not make any sense.

[Madozu]

Even if it were an iS-style engine, I think it's more important from a handling/driving experience to get the things right.

Looking at the various pictures around of the current prototype, it looks like the M guys make heavy use of proven (M3) components like LSD, brakes, suspension, chassis parts and the like to make sure that handling is superb. This is imho the area where the 1er platform has it's clear advantages over the Audi (A3/TT) basis. A car with 60% of its weight on the front wheels is never that easy, predictable and fast to drive like a 50:50 weight distribution of the BMWs ... no matter whether it has AWD or not.

Sure, an AWD (even a Haldex "quasi AWD") accelerates like hell on loose ground or under wet condtions, but I like much more the predictablility of a balanced car and the fun to drive it.

I'm glad to hear from Scott that the 1M development goes into that direction.

[as7920]

Any further news or developments on the convertible version Scott?

Thanks,

Mark.

[Jaguar66]

Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77

Go to BMW build web site, and max out a 135i with options. Comes out around 47K, which I guess might be a good are to start with base of 1M.

I got every factory option on my '09 135i (alarm system not available then), MSRP was just over $50K. I am betting the 1M will be $58K-$59

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by RobMason

I got every factory option on my '09 135i (alarm system not available then), MSRP was just over $50K. I am betting the 1M will be $58K-$59

For 58K+, you could by a new M3 with at technology package.

M3s are selling AT invoice in my area, they aren't going to make the 1M the same price as the M3's MSRP. It'd be like pricing the 135i 3 grand more expensive than the 335i sedan, and the same price as the coupe.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

^ Sorry, but I don't think the S4 and the 1M will in general have the same type of buyers.

What do you think the 1M will be cross-shopped with?

[ORIGIN M.]

Not a lot available in the coupe segment, so I'm thinking they might have started the game over in many ways.

Originally Posted by E82tt6

What do you think the 1M will be cross-shopped with?

[Jaguar66]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

For 58K+, you could by a new M3 with at technology package.

M3s are selling AT invoice in my area, they aren't going to make the 1M the same price as the M3's MSRP. It'd be like pricing the 135i 3 grand more expensive than the 335i sedan, and the same price as the coupe.

I ruled out the E90 M3 when it came out. Too large. I am sure it it a great car. So is the M6, M5, and 7 series, but they are larger still.

Also I got my 135i and near invoice. No brainer for me.

[ModernDayYuppie]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

What do you think the 1M will be cross-shopped with?

E92 M3
Cayman (S)

[Hairlesswookiee]

Originally Posted by RobMason

I got every factory option on my '09 135i (alarm system not available then), MSRP was just over $50K. I am betting the 1M will be $58K-$59

For my sake I hope you're wrong. Otherwise I won't be getting one of these.

[ORIGIN M.]

If they price it that high, they will pay the price in the long run.

It will end up like the Z4MC!

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by RobMason

I got every factory option on my '09 135i (alarm system not available then), MSRP was just over $50K. I am betting the 1M will be $58K-$59

I highly doubt that. An M3 sedan starts around $54K and the coupe around $58K. Plus, a price that high would also go against the M Division stating that the 1M will be at a lower price point that existing products.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by RobMason

I ruled out the E90 M3 when it came out. Too large. I am sure it it a great car. So is the M6, M5, and 7 series, but they are larger still.

Also I got my 135i and near invoice. No brainer for me.

I felt the same way. It's an awesome car to actually drive, but I've never felt as comfortable in large cars.

The Z4 MC is awesome. I'll of course be following the 1 MC as it develops, but I have no qualms about holding on to this car for a LONG time.

As for cross-shopping, this car, like the E46 M3 before it, is difficult to group into a "class". The E46 M3 was frequently compared to/cross shopped with the S4, C32/55, and later RS4, but also the Boxster, 'vette, and even the 996.

I picked the S4 as the basis for my assumptions, because it's a European sport/lux vehicle that is placed squarely between the 135/335 and M3 in terms of performance and price.