iCarbon Quality Issues?

[HondaGoneRogue]

Onefastman. I agree with you. There should be no reservations. I have heard nothing but great things about them. (Besides what we already know ie: timelines etc.) My concern (as well as others) was the hazing/dull spots. That's all. I said that I knew it would be rectified, not sure why everything seems so negative? Obviously posting on the board is what yielded the reply. How long where people asking if we would need hoodpins? Anyway, I'm again, sorry that people feel I shouldn't have raised the issue. I respectfully disagree.

[Mr. Clarkson]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

Anyway, I'm again, sorry that people feel I shouldn't have raised the issue. I respectfully disagree.

Let me amend what I said earlier: I don't disagree with you posting this. I would just hate this to turn into an iCarbon bashing thread that would lead people away from them. You have every right to bring this issue up to let others know about it, or to have others chime in, but I hope this thread will serve to let others know that iCarbon will address this (or any other) issue with those that have one.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Which was exactly what I was hoping for. I wasn't referring to you personally. But I appreciate your input. You definitely carry some weight in my book.

[1speedbike]

I'm very inclined to agree with HondaGoneRogue..

The purpose of this thread isn't to slander iCarbon. I know he isn't a current customer, but he is a potential customer and to a business that should be just as important. His mission in writing this thread wasn't to slander and defame a company, it was to express his interest in finding out more about the quality issues that OTHER people have posted about first and give people a place outside of the group buy thread to post about it, since reviews and pictures don't necessarily belong on an already almost-40 page long group buy thread. I assumed this would be an informational thread where people can post their experiences etc, either agreeing that there is a quality issue or disagreeing and posting positive things.

HondaGoneRogue was not meaning this to become a "let's bash iCarbon" thread and from what I saw there was none of that going on, just honest inquiry. Just like it's fair to know beforehand that BMW HPFP's fail, it's also fair to know that there's a chance that there may be spotting on a $1000+ hood. And yes, that's a "quality issue" both in the cases of the BMW and of the hood.

I'm kind of shocked HondaGoneRogue would be accused of slandering and "picking apart" the warranty statement and not knowing that what iCarbon actually does is different than what is said on the website. How is he supposed to just magically know that the legal warranty statement on the website is not actually how warranty issues get resolved?

That said, I still think this is a misunderstanding. Like I said, I don't believe this thread was ever meant to badmouth iCarbon, but to just help us potential customers gather information (yes, I am a potential customer too. While it took 2 weeks too long for iCarbon to reply to my inquiry about a carbon hood, I'm still in the market for a trunk and diffuser). If iCarbon thought that this thread was slandering them, i don't think they've seen some of the things we've said about Riss Racing and some other companies!

[DTMrack.com]

I hope this can help clarify anything, and settle things down instead of inflame them

DTMrack has one purpose, and that is educate the enthusiast community so that they know what they are getting into before they spend their hard earned money on it. We stand with a biased ONLY to quality.

If you go to our website you might see that we don't carry A LOT of brands. The reason for this is because we CHOOSE not to. And it has nothing to do with our capabilities. We CHOOSE ONLY to carry brands who we feel meet a very high level of quality. And it's not because we don't have the power to carry these other companies. If you notice, we are the largest stocking distributor for some of the companies we CHOOSE to carry.

We could easily carry any aftermarket brand and sell their products, but that's not what we're about, we want to be able to stand behind any company we sell because of the great quality they represent.

Shortly after we made the decision to carry iCarbon products, we took a trip to SEMA where we got the chance to see where iCarbon measured up (in quality primarily, and in design as second) to its competitors. Some who are very well known, and others who are not so well known.

After taking over 2500 detailed pictures and carefully taking our time in every car, analyzing every spec and every inch of CF on the different brands, we were happy to see we had made the best choice. However, we were sad to see that we could not scour what it took to carry other CF brands as well, simply because they TRULY did not meet the quality standard (or proper design style) DTMrack strives to stand for.

Since then, we have become iCarbon's largest stocking distributor. And have sold COUNTLESS pieces from their entire collection. Our customer satisfaction rate for iCarbon customers is as high as can be. In the rare case that we do get an unsatisfied customer, iCarbon is always eager to make amends if the lack of satisfaction come from quality. To quote an email we received from one of the iCarbon owners

"...if the customer is not satisfied with the quality, then we will not be satisfied with the sale. Tell him we will replace his piece at no cost to him. We do not want him to keep the piece if he's not going to be happy with it. We want all of our customers to feel PROUD of their piece and decision to make our pieces a part of their ride. It is only then that we have done our work right..."


HondaGoneRogue has the freedom to post whatever he wants to, and I am sure iCarbon is not a Six Sigma company, as I doubt even BMW is one. I would gather they might be around 3 sigma, which is still excellent for the amount of products they are producing. But I can say without a shadow of a doubt that there is NO aftermarket company making pieces for BMW that has better QUALITY than iCarbon (Yes I'm qualified to say that, I'm an engineer), this I state as something that can be proven. As far as style, (which is opinion) I think it holds true as well.

As always, if you have any questions, please feel free to PM us. Think of us as a KGB for the motorsport community.

Cheers.

[onefastman]

Well said guys and very true indeed.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by iCARBON DESIGN

he bases his entire argument on the few pieces that he can squander up online,

All the photos came from your group buy thread. LOL Grow up man.

There's no argument. Pieces had flaws. We ALL had questions. Pretty simple. Way to handle it. Your business pratice is reflected clearly in your response to this thread. "we are so great, blah blah blah....."

You didn't even apologize to anybody . You downplayed flaws in parts that took 6 months to make! And then when the questions get asked by POTENTIAL customers you yell slander!

Obviously you are very fortunate to be the only carbon manufacturer or I would bet you wouldn't be so proud of yourself.

-Done

[HondaGoneRogue]

As this is not supposed to be a "bash fest" (I want a trunk ) as some think, please post the positive outcomes and timeliness (which it seems people are rightfully afraid of) on replacements or corrections.

In the end, I would like to be assured (and not from anyone who stands to make $$ from me) that everything has been taken care of in a timely fashion and there is no chance that I will get wrapped up in a 6 month ordeal only to recieve a flawed piece. (However small the flaw may be).

Thanks.

[DTMrack.com]

Please, let's keep it civil.

[HondaGoneRogue]

I believe this thread has been more than civil. The only "bashing" and agressive tone (typing in CAPS) came from Mario. I only stated facts that were apparent on this forum.

I fail to see how he can be mad at anyone but himself. You do not want to ever see what would happen if they had taken my money 6 months ago. Apparently someone needs to read up on FTC guidelines.

[ennislaw]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clarkson

iCarbon is a stand up company, I have no doubts that they'd assist anyone with any of the problems alleged in this thread. I'm not sure I see the point of making this thread unless you contacted iCarbon and they refused to correct the issue to your satisfaction. They've worked with me on things above and beyond what they had to do, and I assume they'd do the same for anyone else.

Same here for me. I recommend iCarbon to others and I would do business with them again without any hesitation.

pge

[HondaGoneRogue]

It is not a question of whether or not should one do business with them. I just want to be able to order the trunk and recieve it in a timely manner with no flaws. That is all. I never said they should be avoided. I just don't want any headaches.

I'm glad to hear this was a consolidated issue. Since DTM has them in stock, I will be ordering from them soon. I can't wait to recieve it and do a review of the part in front of me. I will make sure to note the exceptional quality that Mario has been so proud of.

[ennislaw]

I wanted to point out I've notice that carbon fiber looks different depending on the light source and angle of view/light. When compared to the BSM paint, my iCarbon diffuser sometimes has a grayer tint, but at other times it's pure black, depending on the light and angle of view. Just as an illustration, here are two photos taken at the installation, so the diffuser is brand new, one with flash and the other with no flash - big difference. That's not to imply that the poster from Perth doesn't have a problem, but it's difficult to tell from the photos as all the highlights are blown out by flash. It seems even now the human eye can still discern details that cameras can't capture, which is probably the best way to determine if there's a problem, i.e., hands on, not by photos from the internet. If there's a problem with their products, based upon my dealings with iCarbon, I feel sure they will sort it out.

pge

[esses]

I think discussions like these, particularly where the vendor chimes in, tell customers a lot.

Plenty of happy customers have posted on 1addicts about icarbon products - most of the posts have praise for icarbon. It is also important to see how the company reacts to the unhappy customer. I'm curious about whether the parts in the photos were replaced or not.

iCarbon:

I expect the seller to be responsible for shipping to me, the seller can buy insurance. Why would it ever be the buyer who runs that risk? And somehow I have a hard time believing BMWNA called iCarbon to ask for tips on making carbon fiber.

BMWNA is building a $100 million+ carbon fiber manufacturing plant in Moses Lake, Washington. http://resource.bmwusa.com/Pdf_5444e...16476a4ca.arox

BMWAG runs a factory in Wackersdorf, Bavaria with an 80,000+ square foot production floor where they weave and carbonize PAN fibers with knitting machines and multi-stage ovens each the the size of a few RVs. That's where all the Performance parts come from. Its also where they make the stuff the Sauber team uses.

I still have the sense that iCarbon makes a good product and stands behind their products, but no need to pick a fight with and make threats to a potential customer who gives the other side of the story.

[DTMrack.com]

Originally Posted by esses

I think discussions like these, particularly where the vendor chimes in, tell customers a lot.

Plenty of happy customers have posted on 1addicts about icarbon products - most of the posts have praise for icarbon. It is also important to see how the company reacts to the unhappy customer. I'm curious about whether the parts in the photos were replaced or not.

iCarbon:

I expect the seller to be responsible for shipping to me, the seller can buy insurance. Why would it ever be the buyer who runs that risk? And somehow I have a hard time believing BMWNA called iCarbon to ask for tips on making carbon fiber.

BMWNA is building a $100 million+ carbon fiber manufacturing plant in Moses Lake, Washington. http://resource.bmwusa.com/Pdf_5444e...16476a4ca.arox

BMWAG runs a factory in Wackersdorf, Bavaria with an 80,000+ square foot production floor where they weave and carbonize PAN fibers with knitting machines and multi-stage ovens each the the size of a few RVs. That's where all the Performance parts come from. Its also where they make the stuff the Sauber team uses.

I still have the sense that iCarbon makes a good product and stands behind their products, but no need to pick a fight with and make threats to a potential customer who gives the other side of the story.

Just to clarify, the seller is responsible. If you were referring to my quote on the email, DTMrack.com is responsible for whatever products get messed up during SHIPMENT, as you have said, the seller is responsible. But iCarbon is responsible for any defects due to QUALITY. This is the way it's handled. I didn't mean at any point in time that the buyer/customer would be responsible for this. Our customers can vouch that we always offer a replacement when damage occurs because of shipping.

As far as I know, BMWNA did not call iCarbon to ask them for advice, but their engineers did give them very high props for their pieces in SEMA.

Companies deal with unhappy customers all the time, and I have never seen an unhappy customer not being taken care of when it comes to those who have bought from us.

I think in essence there is what IS and what ISN'T:

What IS:
-iCarbon makes sound quality carbon fiber pieces for BMW aftermarket enthusiast.

-IF for some reason the piece does not conform to quality standards, the customer will always be taken care of.

What ISN'T:
-All iCarbon pieces are of subpar quality.

-Customers have to swallow it and just take it because they won't be taken care of.

There simply is nothing else to it then that. If you like the pieces, and have done the research, you will see that iCarbon is the way to go. If for some reason you get a deffective piece, iCarbon AND DTMRack.com(YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT!) will make sure you leave nothing but a cake eating grin when the process is over.

The company that stands behind the products that make, makes it successful. And the company that stands behind the products they sell, all the same. In these instances you have both.

The DTMrack.com staff will be happy to help ANYONE with any questions/doubts/comments/concerns whatever it may be. I promise you, we don't speak highly of iCarbon because we sell it. We sell iCarbon because it can be highly spoken of.

As always, PM us if you have any questions or concerns.

Cheers

[TZANIDO777]

Very true^^^^^^^^^ I purchased a diffuser from DTMrack a few weeks ago and it came in damaged, i pmd the guy who sold it to me and told him that I received a damaged diffuser. I get a pm from ^^^^^^ him, DTMrack.com ( dont want to post his name on the forum) and he has been very helpful. He offered me a few options which included refund of money, credit towards another product they offered, or a full replacement of the diffuser. I chose to take the replacement, but DTMracks costumer service was great and very helpful. He was quick with the reply's and was very nice. So when DTMrack says they will take responsibility for damaged parts, they mean it.

[onefastman]

Also this cant be mentioned enough but few post about positive expierences while almost everybody posts about negative so there were a few problems with dozens and dozens of pieces (probably hundreds).

Imo those are pretty good odds in the cf market and unlike other companies they wont just leave you out to dry. They replace it.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by DTMrack.com

What ISN'T:........
-Customers have to swallow it and just take it because they won't be taken care of.

Originally Posted by jeremydgreat

I'm planning on painting my hood, so my hope is that with primer, paint, and some clear coat it will smooth out fine.

The alternative would be shipping it back and waiting for another hood. No thank you, I'll live.

That's the point. Some of us don't trust the process enough to give you the money (or product back in this case), for fear of having to wait forever while being given false timelines and shipping dates.

So your statement isn't entirely true. The issues wouldn't be as bad if people could trust the turnaround time for parts (from either initial purchases or replacements.) Obviously this is regarding hoods and trunks.

Let's not forget that the double sided pieces still aren't here.

This thread could have been dead already but you guys aren't getting it.

You guys should have just apologized and publicly rested peoples concern.
But instead you get offended and start defending the bullet hole in your own foot.

I hope my trunk will be flawless. Like the rest of the parts on my car.

[HondaGoneRogue]

I'm looking forward to the attention to detail, (hint: I need the lock cut-out please)

Maybe they only listen to customers.....

Originally Posted by XXXXXX

I think the member was just afraid that it will take 6 months. If I was in his position I would be too. Again, this has nothing to do with the quality of the product, because it damn good.

Originally Posted by XXXXXXX

Like others I patiently waited 6 months from the time of order, and bit my tongue when things dragged on and timelines were missed.



Seems a bit strange since there have been more einser's produced without the lock than with, but whatever the logic that went in to it............. I'll give them a chance to show they consider customer service an important facet of their business, or if they just pay lip service.

Originally Posted by XXXXXX

Just checked my trunk and the key lock area is already cutout.



Problem is sometime in MY '09 AG did away with the trunk key lock.



So now there's a protruding hole with nothing to fill it.



A bit of a lack of attention to detail in my opinion.



'09+ owners beware.



I'll need to contact iCarbon and have them send me another trunk without the lock area cutout.



Just hoping that won't be another 4 month wait.

Should we keep this up?

I doub't it's slander or defaming unless its not true. Right?

[m 135]

Originally Posted by ennislaw

I wanted to point out I've notice that carbon fiber looks different depending on the light source and angle of view/light. When compared to the BSM paint, my iCarbon diffuser sometimes has a grayer tint, but at other times it's pure black, depending on the light and angle of view. Just as an illustration, here are two photos taken at the installation, so the diffuser is brand new, one with flash and the other with no flash - big difference. That's not to imply that the poster from Perth doesn't have a problem, but it's difficult to tell from the photos as all the highlights are blown out by flash. It seems even now the human eye can still discern details that cameras can't capture, which is probably the best way to determine if there's a problem, i.e., hands on, not by photos from the internet. If there's a problem with their products, based upon my dealings with iCarbon, I feel sure they will sort it out.

pge

I wish mine looked like this,my diffuser looks even worse in person,those blotches you see in my photos stand out a great deal even at a casual glance.


Buying these products is going out of your way to spend money for a enhanced cosmetic look,what is the point when you recieve rubbish like this ?

[m 135]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

All the photos came from your group buy thread. LOL Grow up man.

There's no argument. Pieces had flaws. We ALL had questions. Pretty simple. Way to handle it. Your business pratice is reflected clearly in your response to this thread. "we are so great, blah blah blah....."

You didn't even apologize to anybody . You downplayed flaws in parts that took 6 months to make! And then when the questions get asked by POTENTIAL customers you yell slander!

Obviously you are very fortunate to be the only carbon manufacturer or I would bet you wouldn't be so proud of yourself.

-Done

This is how i feel.
It has been proven many times on these threads that people wait along time for icarbon to get back to them if at all,but as soon as a thread opens like this they get on here staight away defending themselves, yet i posted photos of a very sad looking diffuser above icarbons post i paid good money for,yet there is no apology or any help to rectify the situation,just more talk about how good they are and how this is all slander.
Very sad,i hope peoples trunks and hoods turn out alright so you can enjoy them, thanks.

[ennislaw]

Originally Posted by m 135

I wish mine looked like this,my diffuser looks even worse in person,those blotches you see in my photos stand out a great deal even at a casual glance. Buying these products is going out of your way to spend money for a enhanced cosmetic look,what is the point when you recieve rubbish like this ?

Sorry for your woes. Hopefully, you have contacted iCarbon about this issue. Ironically, the diffuser photographed was replaced by a second one due to a screen becoming unglued, shortly after purchase. iCarbon responded quickly to my inquiry, and not only replaced the whole diffuser in a short amount of time, they paid shipping both ways (here in the US). I haven't had any issues with the replacement either from a cosmetic standpoint or otherwise after a year. [I've written about this experience previously on 1Addicts.com.]

I have to say my dealings with iCarbon exemplified great service after the sale and I'd purchase again.

pge