Sponsored by The Tire Rack

[RIbimmer]

One of the benefits of a square setup (there are several) is being able to extend tire life by rotating the tires. However, from page 113 of my owner's manual:

Swapping wheels between axles
BMW Advises against swapping wheels between the front and rear axles, even if all tires have the same size, as this could impair driving characteristics.

Discuss.

[fourtailpipes]

erroneous. if wheel and tire size are the same, there's no downside... might be saying that in case you have same size tires on different size wheels... joe average might not notice that the wheels are different sizes? bimmers have never come like this from the factory, though, so i doubt that's the case.

[UF135i]

Can you rotate the stock RFT's side to side?

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by RIbimmer

One of the benefits of a square setup (there are several) is being able to extend tire life by rotating the tires. However, from page 113 of my owner's manual:

Swapping wheels between axles
BMW Advises against swapping wheels between the front and rear axles, even if all tires have the same size, as this could impair driving characteristics.

Discuss.

On previous models with the same size tires, BMW has recommended against rotation unless it is done at 3,000 to 5,000 mile intervals. I've done that when swapping out for winter rubber, and I also rotated a set of 050A RFTs once at 16,000 miles on a Z4 to equalize the wear. There were no ill effects that I could notice either way.
Tom

[gtaday51]

Originally Posted by UF135i

Can you rotate the stock RFT's side to side?

You never want to do that with any tire. You need to keep the direction of rotation the same over the tire's life. If you reverse it, then the tire can have some serious tread falling apart issues.

Or at least that's what my dad has always told me. And he hasnt been wrong on car advice yet!

[andrew9223]

Originally Posted by UF135i

Can you rotate the stock RFT's side to side?

you can but you shouldn't. The RTF's have an inside and an outside of the tire so even if you keep them rotating the same direction youre still flipping inside to outside.

[UF135i]

Originally Posted by gtaday51

You never want to do that with any tire. You need to keep the direction of rotation the same over the tire's life. If you reverse it, then the tire can have some serious tread falling apart issues.

Or at least that's what my dad has always told me. And he hasnt been wrong on car advice yet!

I'm not sure that's true. I've had some tires that are directional (specifically say don't flip side to side.. says "THIS SIDE OUT" on tire), and some that aren't directional. It might be bad if you only switched sides once in their lifetime, but if you periodically did it it could be ok? Not that I will be doing that w/ the RFTs.

[gtaday51]

Originally Posted by UF135i

I'm not sure that's true. I've had some tires that are directional (specifically say don't flip side to side.. says "THIS SIDE OUT" on tire), and some that aren't directional. It might be bad if you only switched sides once in their lifetime, but if you periodically did it it could be ok? Not that I will be doing that w/ the RFTs.

Im sorry. I didnt explain it correctly. What I meant is that when you break a tire in the tire conforms to whatever direction it is rotating in. If you change the direction the tire is rotating in (even if it is an asymetric) it can mess things up and shorten the life of the rubber compound because you change the stresses on the tread.

[warmtoes]

Originally Posted by gtaday51

Im sorry. I didnt explain it correctly. What I meant is that when you break a tire in the tire conforms to whatever direction it is rotating in. If you change the direction the tire is rotating in (even if it is an asymetric) it can mess things up and shorten the life of the rubber compound because you change the stresses on the tread.

I'm not saying you're wrong but on cars with the same size tire on each corner they used to show the optimal method to rotate the tires for longest life was front tires straight back and then bring the rear tires forward and then switch sides in a cross pattern.

That would obviously change the direction the tires would rotate.

[ZIPNBYE]

The old-wives-tales about tires rotating the other direction are correct when applied to BIAS PLY tires...which, unless you're running a military vehicle, are no longer available.

RADIAL tires can roll in any direction, and should always be rotated.

The oem run-flats on the 1er are asymetrical, not directional, which is to say, they have an outside face and an inside face. There is no reason why they can not be rotated from L to R / R to L, the only thing to remember is that fronts stay on the front, rears on the rear.

If they were directional, then there would be an issue, as the RF tire would be turning backwards if mounted on the LF corner, unless re-mounted on the wheels inside-out (retaining the same rolling direction).

Old wives tales generally take about two to three generations to die out...and a few of the above posters are still listening to their fathers' advice when they should be listening to the tire companies.

[RIbimmer]

This all makes a lot of sense. So why does BMW "advise against" this in the owner's manual?

[ZIPNBYE]

BMW doesn't want you doing anything on your own. No jack, no lug wrench, no way to undertake it on your own...

[jkp1187]

The Tappet Bros. offered their own opinions on the subject here...

Originally Posted by Click and Clack

http://www.cartalk.com/content/colum...tember/03.html

Dear Tom and Ray:

The owner's manual for my 2000 BMW 328i says in the interests of safety and handling, I should NOT rotate my tires. And it implies that tire rotation will not extend the life of the tires in a meaningful way. But the instructions with my new tires (not to mention those from the tire reseller and the mechanic who services my car) all suggest periodic rotation. To rotate, or not to rotate? -- Larry



TOM: This was one of the great civic debates of the 20th century, Larry.

RAY: Make that 20th AND 21st.

TOM: We've always felt that tire rotation is of marginal value in terms of saving you money. Why? Because the cost of tire rotation roughly equals the amount you'd save by extending your tire life.

RAY: You can see why mechanics like it. Not only is it an easy few bucks for us, but it also gets your car into the shop again so we can sell you other services -- like engine flushes and fuzzy-dice reupholstering!

TOM: So, our feeling has always been that if the tire rotation is free, do it. In other words, if you're having your brakes checked, and the wheels are already off the car and your mechanic is nice enough to put them back on different wheels for nothing, then do it. That's what we do for our customers.

RAY: Actually, we just get confused, and don't remember where the wheels came from. So we tell our customers, "We THINK we rotated your tires."

TOM: But if you have to pay for tire rotation as a separate service, it's pretty much a wash, as far as we can tell.

RAY: As for BMW, it figures that anyone who buys a BMW places handling above a few bucks. And in many cases, its cars come with directional tires, which are only supposed to be rotated front to back. When you rotate that way, you're supposed to do it every 3,000 miles, which further reduces any economic advantage.

TOM: BMW cites safety because the front and rear tires develop different wear patterns. And for at least a little while -- until the wear evens out, which is the point of tire rotation -- you might have slightly inferior handling with newly rotated tires.

RAY: It's a technicality, and very few drivers would ever notice it, but BMW is, technically, correct.

TOM: Still, we see nothing wrong with rotating your tires. No harm will be done, in our opinion. But if you're paying your BMW mechanic $125 an hour to move your tires around (and eight bucks a wheel for rebalancing, too), it's very unlikely you'll save any money in the long run, Larry.

[Bucksluvr]

Called my local dealer about side to side rotation because I was concerned about cupping. He also recommended against rotating side to side and said I may experience some undesireable handling charachteristics. At $250 per tire, I think I will go with click and clack and rotate myself and get a few more miles out of my tires.

[Peoria1]

They don't recommend because they don't want to pay for it under warranty.

[Eddy@ApexWheels]

BMW also puts transmissions into cars that you're never supposed to change the fluid in. Even though the fluid has a short life cycle. Most of their owner's manual is targetted at the idiot owner who brings their car to the dealership for wiper blade replacements and detailing (because you wouldn't want to use non-bmw soap on your car).

[emos325]

^

[emos325]

Originally Posted by emos325

^

non-bmw soap

[mleskovar]

Tire rotation ('square') usually increases the life of the tires and reduces noise as they wear. If you don't care about either then don't waste your time. I'll be doing mine every 2500 miles. BMW advises against it because they see no added value and only possible problems IMO.

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by mleskovar

Tire rotation ('square') usually increases the life of the tires and reduces noise as they wear. If you don't care about either then don't waste your time. I'll be doing mine every 2500 miles. BMW advises against it because they see no added value and only possible problems IMO.

If (as is often the case on BMWs) the rears wear at 3,000 miles per 32" of tread and the fronts wear at 6,000 miles per 32", how does rotation increase tread life?
Assuming 10/32" original tread and replacement at 3/32", non-rotation would require 2 rear tires at 21,000 miles and 4 new tires at 42,000, or 6 tires every 42,000 miles - an average of 31,500 miles per set of 4.
Rotating the tires at regular intervals would require 4 new tires at 31,500 miles. While you can alter the miles per /32", the compasirion will be the same.

So what's the difference - other than the time & expense of rotation?

Tom

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

....So what's the difference - other than the time & expense of rotation....

All tires will wear more evenly when rotated...both in tread depth, and across the tread. Even with alignment at every tire set replacement you will get different wear patterns on each tire. Alignment geometry is not the same at all four corners. Which means, you are replacing tires in sets (two or four) because one is questionable/below spec. Big difference in tire life? Enough that I do it. Tread depth is also a large component of how the car handles and I find equal depth at all corners improves handling....and sometimes limits my 'spirited' cornering if I know it's low or it's wet. Cost? I do it myself and gladly use the time to check brakes/suspension/underneath car. I won't buy a staggered wheel car again mainly for these reasons but they do look good when parked.