Did you (really) take all your mods off before servicing?

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Dan135i

Sux for you and them, sorry... I have never had a major problem from faulty manufacturing, or stock parts just small shit. But, as I stated earlier I do most of my work myself so its not an issue. And If I know my shit fucked up the car I take care of it, everything else I have had taken care of without major issue 'cept for two occasions, one being faulty dash cluster, and the other my ac pump. They tried to say my modifications screwed up both on different occasions... They ended up having to R2 both on warantee without further issue after legal threatening and BBB reporting.

I generally do all my own work as well, but my car has an intermittant problem where it will sputter and carry on like it has a bad fuel pump, then go into limp mode, and it only shows up on long trips. The normal diagnostics only give a cylinder misfire code, and turning the car off for 5 minutes corrects it. It's done it since it was brand new but it took me a while to figure out the exact circumstances that caused it (the long trip), and I wanted them to fix it.

I had an SSTT on the car at the time (which I removed), and this was early on, when these tampering codes hadn't really even been fully confirmed. There was no BT scanner available at the time either. I took it in, they saw the codes, opened up the ECU box and found O2 sims, and that was that. They wouldn't even diagnose it far enough to figure out what was wrong with the car.

[My135]

I think the real problem in your case is that dealer found the tuner codes and they started blame everything to the error codes. If you used a BT scanner tool to scan and remove all tuner codes, they might went on to diagnose and repair.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by My135

I think the real problem in your case is that dealer found the tuner codes and they started blame everything to the error codes. If you used a BT scanner tool to scan and remove all tuner codes, they might went on to diagnose and repair.

Maybe, but there was no BT scanner back then. The real point is, if you get caught with a tune (for whatever reason) they can and will deny coverage and there's nothing you can do about it.

[nsandawd]

Hey guys, new to the forum, 1st post. But, just to add my .02 cents on the evo vs. 135i debate... I own an 03 evo 8 w/turbo back exhuast, intake, bigger fmic, intercooler piping and bov, and an 08 135i completely stock. As everyone has said, the two cars are completely different. The evo feels much faster because of the explosive power and also because of the sound. The 135i has MUCH more top end (even though it does seems to fall flat at about 6k rpm), but doesnt feel as fast because it is so quiet and smooth. Surprisingly, the evo also feels much faster down low than the bmw, because the bmw gearing is soooooo incredibly long.
But do not be mistaken, the bmw is an incredible car. My friend has an 07 STI w/intake, exhaust, fmic, ported exhaust/intake manifold, 18lbs, and a tune (more mods, but those are the most relevant), and we raced the other day on the highway from 60-130. We were dead even the entire way. He also shifted twice (from 3rd to 4th to 5th) before I shifted out of 3rd. Needless to say, I was very happy w/my little 1er!

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Dan135i

No, they have to prove the modification casued the fault, and it isnt brain surgery, bottom line. This isnt my first rodeo... I dont care if it is a BMW dealership, they are all the same type of buisness... Its black and white.

I know the military legal services wont actively participate, thier job is to refer to others who can, and dig up laws, and regulations on pro/con... But like I said earlier, Civilian dealerships dont know jack shit about that, I have proven it twice.

The Magnusson Moss warranty act, as related to the auto industry, was intended to protect owners, so that they could easily understand what is and is not covered. It provides a basis for any consumer retailer to have warranty information that can be applied equally to all consuers.
In regards to those who modify the base engineering of their automobiles, the act doesn't void a manufacturers stated warranty. Manufacturers are MORE aware of this 1975 act, than most tuners and consumers. They write their warranties fully knowing the MM act. They are not oblivious to it. When the warranty states, "no modifications are permitted to engine and it's function...", the act doesn't state, "you can't say that." In fact, the warranty is a legal binding contract, and as long as it jibes with the MM act, the manufacturer can indeed exclude warranty repair if/when a modification is done contrary to what the warranty states.
This is from the act:
Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]vehicle's [COLOR=blue ! important]warranty[/COLOR][/COLOR]
, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.[/COLOR]

Read more: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...#ixzz0lEjGBv52

Again, in relation to the auto industry, the intent is to protect consumers from being told such things as; they MUST have oil changes, tire changes, tune ups, etc... done by the dealer or manufacturer, and paid by the customer, in order to keep the warranty intact.
That's not allowed. But, if the manufacturer supplies the specified, for example, oil and oil filter free of charge, then the manufacturer can use aftermarket parts use to deny warranty coverage. It doesn't happen, but it can, especially in the case of BMW who provide all maintenance free of charge until the warranty ends.

So, in general, if you get a different type of air filter, or use a different brand of oil, or different tires, or brake pads, as long as those parts meet the manufactures requirements, then the act protects the customer and his warranty by giving the burden of proof to the manufacturer to show that those non OEM or aftermarket parts did indeed cause a failure, IF they want to deny a warranty claim.

Now in terms of altering the engine and it's design parameters, the act doesn't explicitly give the owner the right to modify the engine so that it operates beyond the design parameters. Many tuners have taken to throwing the MM act card, but read it, and you'll see that you'll have a tough road to hoe if the dealer finds a ECU tune. They can indeed deny further warranty claims on the engine.

Don't be fooled in thinking that the MM act protects an owner to do whatever he pleases with his car and the manufacturer simply has to take it and fix whatever goes wrong. Think about it from a legal fairness point of view. Is it fair that you can modify your engine to produce 33% more power than it was designed to produce, and if something goes wrong the dealer and manufacturer should have to eat the cost of fixing it? No it's not, and the act doesn't protect you in that regard.

As others have already stated, you're in for an awakening if you ever have a direct failure of something like a turbo, and the dealer finds an ECU tune. They can deny a warranty fix and you can threaten all you like, cause they would be within THEIR rights to not cover it.

On the other hand, dealers do try to deny warranty claims when in fact a modded part has no bearing on the problem. This would be something like, someone has an HPFP failure and goes to the dealer.
The car has a lowered non OEM suspension. The dealer tries to deny the HPFP warranty claim due to the modded suspension. Well, there the owner has a leg to stand on.
Also, let's take the HPFP issue. A dealer can try to deny a warranty claim on the failed pump if he finds a "chip" tune. HOWEVER, in this case, the manufacturer must prove that the tune actually caused the pump failure. So in this case the act can help.
However, if you go in with a failed pump AND an ECU tune and they find the tune, then they may have to fix the pump under the act, if they can't prove the tune caused it, BUT, they can then cancel further warranty claims on the engine due to the tune, as long as the written warranty explicitly states that that type of modification will void the warranty. And, according to the BMW warranty, just like all manufacturers warranties, it does state that.

Some people seem to think the MM act allows and protects them to do anything they please, and the manufacturer has to prove that the alteration did the damage in every case. It ain't so. Go read the act.

[My135]

Very well said. For those who mod their cars, they better know their right and responsibilities. If you have a tune, you better ready to pay for a turbo failure but I will fight the BMW to fix the HPFP failure since it is a know problem.

[spud]

why do you assume turbo failure? Has there been a post related to a tune (dinan, jb, etc) that someone has blown up their engine....turbos?

serious question.

[1013mm]

when i went into service for the first time the SA asked me when I was going to get that tune then he proceeded to show me his very own tuned E46 M3

[Add1ct]

Originally Posted by jzhang

when i went into service for the first time the SA asked me when I was going to get that tune then he proceeded to show me his very own tuned E46 M3

a good part of me thinks that the SAs like to be your friend and kind of nudge you to a tune only to stand by and do nothing when/if you get one and BMW decides not to cover warranty issues because of it so that they can then charge you for the repairs at their rate and not have to take the standard amounts set by BMW for certain repairs. hence I just always say "shadow memory and you think I'll get a tune? hell no!" I'd love to have more power but the car never fails to put a smile on my face when I punch it so I'll live without one. to those with one I would suggest you take it out for every dealer trip.

[GregB]

The 135i is one of the fastest stock cars I've ever driven, but it's also one of the slowest feeling. I believe this is for 2 reasons, the first being the smooth power delivery and the second being the long gearing.

I used to own a stage 1 tuned STI (approx 325bhp/340ft/lb torque) and it felt a LOT faster than my 135i. Around 3500rpm the Car would have a huge burst of power which isn't felt in the stock 135i. However, I know that other than maybe from a dig, it wasn't faster. I often have modded STIs trying to keep up with my when I accelerate on the hwy, and they can't.

We don't have any pre-X Evo's in Canada so I can't really comment on those, although the Evo X I test drove was probably the slowest feeling performance car I've ever driven.

As for the gearing, the 135i has some of the longest gearing I've ever felt in a performance car, which has it's benefits (Less shifts), but also it's drawback (feels slow)

I just installed a JB3 the other day, I've played around with map 3 and map 5 as we have pump 94-octane in Ontario. Map 3 is a noticeable improvement but map 5 really gives the car that explosive power than many people, myself included, crave. Sadly, I would almost say that new tires are mandatory with the JB3, as my stockers simply can't hold the power anymore. The AD08's I just ordered should fix that problem nicely

[Randall41]

Had my car in this past week (Service1) Service Manager informed me that BMW NA has authorized random physical and scan ECU checks for tuner software whenever a car comes in for warranty service of any kind.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Randall41

Had my car in this past week (Service1) Service Manager informed me that BMW NA has authorized random physical and scan ECU checks for tuner software whenever a car comes in for warranty service of any kind.

This shouldn't be surprising really.
Subaru due to the WRX and STI, along with Mits and the EVO, do this as well, because they know these cars appeal to tuners and tweakers and the power hungry.
Turbo engines are quite easy to get more power out of as they simply require some ECU tunes and you're set.
BMW also knows this, and the enthusiast forums are full of people discussing their tunes and how it all works.
So, it's no surprise that these manufacturers don't want to have to fix problems that arise from unauthorized engine tunes.

If someone wants to tune their engine, well that's great, more 'power' to you. But, getting pissed that manufacturers don't want to do warranty work on engines that are in violation of the warranty, isn't reasonable. If you want to tune and get more power go for it, but be prepared for the potential consequences. You want to play, be prepared to pay. It's that simple.
I can't blame manufacturers for not wanting to fix problems that arise from a tune.

Granted, full denial of warranty due to a tune isn't right. Meaning, if you go in because one of your dampers is blown and leaking, and you have a tune and the manufacturers denies warranty on that dampers, then it is a stretch that the tune had anything to do with the damper issue. Still, the manufacturer may cover the suspension work, but if they find a tune they can flag you for future engine work.
It's legit too, because the warranty expressly states that engine and ECU tampering can void the warranty. If it's stated, then MM can't help you.

These vendors that say their product can't be found will be taken to task if these checks become more and more common.
Also, how many of these ECU vendors actually stand by their claims?
How many and which ones, actually have written guarantee's that if their tune is found, they will help the customer?
And, if they do, what will they help with?

I read the info on the JB+, and it makes claims that it won't throw codes, and that it can't be found/detected. But, I didn't find anything in writing on what that maker of JB software will do for the customer if the tune IS found. Barring something in writing the claims end being just that, "claims".

[nobbyv]

Originally Posted by bep

when you say the 99 GT would not be faster. But, for some reason, it felt like it was. Maybe it was a shorter gearing or something like that.

My Evo was stock, and did get smoked once by a Z3 M. Not sure if a stock 135i would be an Evo on a 1/4 mile.

I don't see how different gearing is going to make a car "feel" faster. It can help a car with less HP, say, achieve equivalent acceleration numbers to another higher HP car. But the acceleration numbers are the acceleration numbers, and the '99 Mustang GT went 0-60 in 5.4 seconds. This is not particularly close to the 135i's conservative 4.7 secs.

And there is no "not sure" about a 135i being quicker through the 1/4 mile than a EVO: the 135i IS quicker through the 1/4 mile. 13.3 vs 13.4. There is no debate. This is objectively verified fact, using professional test drivers on closed courses.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by nobbyv

I don't see how different gearing is going to make a car "feel" faster. It can help a car with less HP, say, achieve equivalent acceleration numbers to another higher HP car. But the acceleration numbers are the acceleration numbers, and the '99 Mustang GT went 0-60 in 5.4 seconds. This is not particularly close to the 135i's conservative 4.7 secs.

And there is no "not sure" about a 135i being quicker through the 1/4 mile than a EVO: the 135i IS quicker through the 1/4 mile. 13.3 vs 13.4. There is no debate. This is objectively verified fact, using professional test drivers on closed courses.

Gearing has a HUGE effect on the driver's perception of speed.

Talking about tenths of a second on 1/4 mile times as if they're written in stone is silly. Any given car can swing a half a second one way or the other depending on weather and track conditions, even with "professional test drivers" and closed courses.

[Add1ct]

gearing makes all the difference in the world in terms of feel- case in point- on my e46 I went from stock 3.15 to a 3.38 rear end from a 330 auto- made the car feel a ton faster. downside is higher rpms in the same gears and lower hwy mileage

[Artz 330]

lol my HPFP went so I took it in (Untuned) they told me my car was not starting due to my aftermarket BOV and mass air flow sensor. LMAO so they denied me warranty after getting all HPFP related codes. They told me to go home and put my stock items back on, after charging me $133.00 Diag Fee. What a joke...

[Add1ct]

I thought there was no MAF on the N54

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Gearing has a HUGE effect on the driver's perception of speed.

Talking about tenths of a second on 1/4 mile times as if they're written in stone is silly. Any given car can swing a half a second one way or the other depending on weather and track conditions, even with "professional test drivers" and closed courses.

I agree 100% with this.
For reference, a few tenths is fine, but only as reference.
That minimal amount of difference is way too small to confer supremacy on model over another.

This is why 0-100, 0-110, 0-120, and above are relevant, cause at those speeds we are seeing what high rpm power and gearing are really doing.
Given how close the 135i and EVO X are in the 1/4, means it's truly a drivers race and either car can win the 1/4.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Artz 330

lol my HPFP went so I took it in (Untuned) they told me my car was not starting due to my aftermarket BOV and mass air flow sensor. LMAO so they denied me warranty after getting all HPFP related codes. They told me to go home and put my stock items back on, after charging me $133.00 Diag Fee. What a joke...

So, are you going to return everything to stock and then take it back in?
That's what I would do.
I wouldn't have gone in there in the first place with a BOV in place. You're just asking for trouble, and you found it. It sucks to be sure.

Did the service manager or writer actually say that you had a "MAF" sensor? Did he mean you somehow put one on there?

Once you take the BOV off, then go back to the dealer. If the HPFP has failed, then there will be codes. Call BMW then, and ask to have the pump replaced.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Add1ct

I thought there was no MAF on the N54

There isn't.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by RPM90

So, are you going to return everything to stock and then take it back in?
That's what I would do.
I wouldn't have gone in there in the first place with a BOV in place. You're just asking for trouble, and you found it. It sucks to be sure.

Did the service manager or writer actually say that you had a "MAF" sensor? Did he mean you somehow put one on there?

Once you take the BOV off, then go back to the dealer. If the HPFP has failed, then there will be codes. Call BMW then, and ask to have the pump replaced.

Just curious if anyone who has one knows, but how difficult is it to swap out your stock DV/Chargepipe setup with a BOV setup and vice versa. Im def looking to go with a pipe like Cp-e's

[Artz 330]

they said one of the codes was for an aftermarket Mass air flow sensor. I was confused myself as I thought these cars didnt have them. And no i did not take anything off the car. I told them to clear the codes and would drive the car for a week. I scanned the car and only fuel pump codes come up. Car goes back to dealer tomorrow and if they replace the fuel pump they will refund me my 133$