N55 E-tune progress

[houtan]

Originally Posted by RVAN

I'm running an E50 blend. Been getting fuel cuts at WOT at the top of 2nd and 3rd. Haven't had a revision yet that solves it.

Getting frustrated at this point.

is your car dct?

[RVAN]

Originally Posted by houtan

is your car dct?

Yeah.

[houtan]

me as well. is dzenno doing your tune? how many revisions have you logged?

[RVAN]

Originally Posted by houtan

me as well. is dzenno doing your tune? how many revisions have you logged?

On to my fourth, but was also having a lean steady state condition they were working on as well. Frustrating not to be able to go WOT.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by RVAN

On to my fourth, but was also having a lean steady state condition they were working on as well. Frustrating not to be able to go WOT.

i fell yah. I've probably done over 30 revisions, sucked not going WOT. If he says he can figure it out, then i would stick with it. only other option is JB4, but based on my logs, E50 on JB4 seems to be the same as 91 on the ptf etune. not sure how, but the etune holds higher top end boost and very clean timing, even on 91.

hopefully you can get E50 working, because the ptf e50 tune absolutely rips when it works.

[RVAN]

Originally Posted by houtan

i fell yah. I've probably done over 30 revisions, sucked not going WOT. If he says he can figure it out, then i would stick with it. only other option is JB4, but based on my logs, E50 on JB4 seems to be the same as 91 on the ptf etune. not sure how, but the etune holds higher top end boost and very clean timing, even on 91.

hopefully you can get E50 working, because the ptf e50 tune absolutely rips when it works.

Yeah if not soon I think I'll try a COBB protune in LA. Either that or just give it up and go to NA V8.

[houtan]

Did Cobb say they could do a pro tune for e50? You could always stick to the 91 octane tune as well. The biggest difference between the 91 octane and e50 tunes is about 4 degrees more timing on the e50 tune.

[houtan]

i uploaded a comparison of my ptf v204 91 octane etune running flash only vs running v204 with the jb4 installed set to map 4. the v204 log is from a few months ago, the v204 test 3 the log i took on december 13, 2015, and is one day after the log with v204 running as the back end flash with JB4. running the tune as flash only is much better in both of the flash only logs. boost is almost 2 psi greater at 5500rpm (15.X vs 13.x) and the avg ignition (less than 1 vs 4.5) is much better on the flash only. not sure why, but for my car this particular tune is much stronger without the jb4 than with the jb4. furthermore, the flash only logs are seem to be stronger then the jb4 running the BMS BEF on either 91 or E50.

http://datazap.me/u/houtan/91-octane...log=0&data=1-8

[paranoidroid]

Interesting, have you brought it up on n54tech with Terry? I'd be curious what he has to say about that..

[paranoidroid]

Also I wonder if it's just differences in the way Cobb logs timing vs logging from JB4. I noticed in the Flash only logs the timing hits -2 at some point and JB4 never goes below 0 ever..

[houtan]

In terms of BEFs, I have in the past and the response has basically been ask the flash tuner. Which is fair because it's not their tune. I have not asked why I can get 2 psi more boost, but I don't plan to either because I dont have a dyno sheet showing the results. What I do have are the logs to share to help others make a decision.

Yeah, it's possible they collect data differently because there are definitely some differences between the flash vs jb4 tune. On the flash, at tip in timing advance always goes slightly negative. It's done that since the beta testing days. Not sure if the jb4 is set to read negative timing advance or if timing never goes negative. You will also see that afr on the flash never hovers around 14.7 like the jb4 at tip in. And of course flash only has 6 cylinder timing which is important. Also, I'm guessing they are reading boost from the same place so those should be similar.

[RVAN]

Originally Posted by houtan

Did Cobb say they could do a pro tune for e50? You could always stick to the 91 octane tune as well. The biggest difference between the 91 octane and e50 tunes is about 4 degrees more timing on the e50 tune.

Yeah they did. Will have to wait a bit though. Went to run logs on Saturday to send to PTF and the water pump went. Was only driving about 4 minutes so it was gone before I even started it.

Had to get it towed to BMW El Cajon. Luckily it's CPO'd, but crazy that at 47k miles the water pumps go one these things, and yet there is no goodwill program by BMW. It's clearly a known problem, and a water pump should not fail at under 50k miles

[paranoidroid]

Originally Posted by houtan

In terms of BEFs, I have in the past and the response has basically been ask the flash tuner. Which is fair because it's not their tune. I have not asked why I can get 2 psi more boost, but I don't plan to either because I dont have a dyno sheet showing the results. What I do have are the logs to share to help others make a decision.

Yeah, it's possible they collect data differently because there are definitely some differences between the flash vs jb4 tune. On the flash, at tip in timing advance always goes slightly negative. It's done that since the beta testing days. Not sure if the jb4 is set to read negative timing advance or if timing never goes negative. You will also see that afr on the flash never hovers around 14.7 like the jb4 at tip in. And of course flash only has 6 cylinder timing which is important. Also, I'm guessing they are reading boost from the same place so those should be similar.

I have never seen a JB4 log go below 0 for timing, so comparing timing differences between two log methods is very suspicious.. it could be that the JB4 or the flash simply offsets the data differently in what they consider 0 timing.

I think the fairest way to compare would be to use the JB4 for both logs..but that'd require some work in loading their special firmware that does not interfere with the flash, as well as detaching one of the connecting JB4 wires so you can fairly log the flash only tune. Could be worth doing for a fair comparison though.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by paranoidroid

I have never seen a JB4 log go below 0 for timing, so comparing timing differences between two log methods is very suspicious.. it could be that the JB4 or the flash simply offsets the data differently in what they consider 0 timing.

I think the fairest way to compare would be to use the JB4 for both logs..but that'd require some work in loading their special firmware that does not interfere with the flash, as well as detaching one of the connecting JB4 wires so you can fairly log the flash only tune. Could be worth doing for a fair comparison though.

could be true for timing. but I don't see how boost is interpreted differently, do you? they are both getting the boost from the same place.

Where do you see the instructions on detaching certain connections so the jb4 doesn't interfere with the flash? from what I understood and what Terry says, map 4 is supposed to run the flash, never heard of having to disconnect anything.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by RVAN

Yeah they did. Will have to wait a bit though. Went to run logs on Saturday to send to PTF and the water pump went. Was only driving about 4 minutes so it was gone before I even started it.

Had to get it towed to BMW El Cajon. Luckily it's CPO'd, but crazy that at 47k miles the water pumps go one these things, and yet there is no goodwill program by BMW. It's clearly a known problem, and a water pump should not fail at under 50k miles

Daym, that sucks. I'm at 44k, fingers are crossed mine doesn't go out!

What fuel were you going to log?

I had no idea cobb does e50 pro tunes for the n55. Please let us know how it goes.

[Solo_M_Tech]

I've never seen a protuned, or flash tuned N55 be as reliable, or make the same power, as the N55 JB4 powered cars. I've spoken to a dozen tuners, and many many N55 owners who have used both. They all switch back to the JB4, and if they have the compatible ECU, they run a BEF, FF wires, and an E30-50 mix.

Cobb has completely stopped N55 tune development, and to date, MHD is the only current flash tuning platform that is developing a legit N55 tune. Though that is a ways down the pipe, they are doing it.

Im really interested to see how long it takes these pro-tuners to develop a reliable map for the N55 that makes serious power.

And on the timing front, I've logged my FBO N55 several times, with 93, and E30 mix. My timing never dips below 3*. At WOT in map 5, 18 psi taper to 15 at 6500 rpm's
it stays between 3.8-4.0 with 93.

[houtan]

Your car holds 15psi at 6,500 rpm with the stock turbo? Please post a log, I have never seen that on a stock n55 turbo.

Agree most of the big hp numbers are with the jb4. But those numbers are always with meth, e50, or race gas. I dont see any jb4 numbers on 91, which is the only gas available for some. Also, based on my logs, my boost is still better flash only on 91 vs my jb4 with e50.

The timing pulls slightly in a pull from 2000 rpm, its just what happens as boost ramps up. The multi gear pulls I posted on datazap don't do that. Keep in mind this is on 91. http://datazap.me/u/houtan/ptf-stg2-...=0&data=1-8-22

[paranoidroid]

Originally Posted by houtan

could be true for timing. but I don't see how boost is interpreted differently, do you? they are both getting the boost from the same place.

Where do you see the instructions on detaching certain connections so the jb4 doesn't interfere with the flash? from what I understood and what Terry says, map 4 is supposed to run the flash, never heard of having to disconnect anything.

I'm not sure how the sensors get read, but I'd assume they would be similar too. So yea, I agree the flash tune is running more aggressively.

Here's the link to the logging & gauges only jb4 firmware: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29285

Even in Map 4 JB4 is still controlling the boost if you're running ISO firmware. JB4 docs suck and it's a huge PITA to figure out all the intricacies.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by paranoidroid

I'm not sure how the sensors get read, but I'd assume they would be similar too. So yea, I agree the flash tune is running more aggressively.

Here's the link to the logging & gauges only jb4 firmware: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29285

Even in Map 4 JB4 is still controlling the boost if you're running ISO firmware. JB4 docs suck and it's a huge PITA to figure out all the intricacies.

That is for the N54. As far as I know, it doesn't apply to the n55.

To run the flash only, select option 4, 3. Then run map 4.

[paranoidroid]

Originally Posted by houtan

That is for the N54. As far as I know, it doesn't apply to the n55.

To run the flash only, select option 4, 3. Then run map 4.

Yes, map 4 will target flash boost, but the JB4 is still doing the boost control. Does this matter? Not sure..

[houtan]

to be clear, the JB4 will run flash boost in map 4, only if on setting 4, 3. If you are on 4,2, it will not run flash boost. In both cases, the jb4 is controlling boost. I think it's clear it matters because my boost is 2psi greater when running the flash by itself. So for whatever reason, the JB4 doesn't hold the same boost on this particular flash. The other part that is clear to me is even running the bms flash, the JB4 is holding 2psi less boost compared to my ptf flash. Not sure why, but these are the results for my car.

what I am really interested in seeing is ApexResistance logs showing 15psi at 6,500 RPMs on the stock N55 turbo. Never seen that before, and I have looked at a lot of logs.

[houtan]

It has been a while, but original post has been updated with results using MHD, E25, and tune from Wedge Performance.