If BMW doesnt put LSD (limit slip diff) in 135i, would aftermarket LSD void warranty?

bradford · 08-23-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryn

I only read that one piece in the press release that clearly stated the new EDL system become active once the traction control is defeated. This makes sense too, since if it was active along with the ASC, then it would compete with the traction control system, which retards the engine on wheel slip.

It doesn't say that it "BECOMES active ONCE the traction control is defeated". It says that it "is active when traction control is defeated."

EDL can work with traction control no problem. It's been this way in Audis since MY2000.

larryn · 08-23-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradford

It doesn't say that it "BECOMES active ONCE the traction control is defeated". It says that it "is active when traction control is defeated."

EDL can work with traction control no problem. It's been this way in Audis since MY2000.

I think that's you interpreting it differently than I am, and neither is wrong, because it's ambiguous.

I read this as "EDL is active when DSC completely switched off. I don't read it as "EDL is also active when DSC completely switch off".

joelk · 08-23-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradford

It doesn't say that it "BECOMES active ONCE the traction control is defeated". It says that it "is active when traction control is defeated."

+1 iirc the way it was worded you really couldn't infer much prior to traction control being defeated. when i read it, i interpreted it as you do only to be fascinated that others read it differently.

exactly larryn, but it doesn't say it becomes active ... it just says it is active. ambiguous for sure! cheers.

i read it as "you can switch off DSC and STILL have the benefit of the fake LSD!"

bradford · 08-23-2007, 02:23 PM

It definitely is ambiguous, but I guarantee that it will be active 24/7, unless you pull the ABS fuse. Wanna bet $50? :-)

larryn · 08-23-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotgemini2000

Is the 135i diff/electronic setup identical to the one in the 335i?

No. This is new to the 135i.

larryn · 08-23-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradford

It definitely is ambiguous, but I guarantee that it will be active 24/7, unless you pull the ABS fuse. Wanna bet $50? :-)

Better yet. This is the internet. Let's slap our E-members on the E-table and see whose is bigger. :wink:

bradford · 08-23-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ster

Thanks for the very helpful info.

I have zero plans to replace the diff, but surely a mechanical diff is still better than EDL, right? Otherwise, why does BMW put mechanical diffs on its M cars?

Yes, a mechanical diff is much smoother. Sometimes EDL can pulse the brakes pretty hard, thus upsetting the balance of the car. :-/

bradford · 08-23-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryn

Better yet. This is the internet. Let's slap our E-members on the E-table and see whose is bigger. :wink:

*THUNK*

bradford · 08-23-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ster

Thanks for the very helpful info.

I have zero plans to replace the diff, but surely a mechanical diff is still better than EDL, right? Otherwise, why does BMW put mechanical diffs on its M cars?

Oh, and the main answer is because M cars don't cost $35k.

gotgemini2000 · 08-23-2007, 02:27 PM

I still don't understand why they couldn't give us a mechanical diff as well as the traction control system. When my father ordered his 1992 BMW 325i the mechanical differential was a 510 dollar option. Given this fact and the fact that the M cars have both the traction control system and the mechanical differentials, it seems to me that it is a step backwards to get rid of the mechanical differential. All this being said, as was mentioned above, it is way to early to make judgments on a car that no one has driven, but a mechanical differential seems like such an obvious must have in a car designed for "driving enthusiasts".

larryn · 08-23-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradford

*THUNK*

~~~WHOMP!!

:wink:

bradford · 08-23-2007, 02:30 PM

lol!

larryn · 08-23-2007, 02:31 PM

too bad in real life it would be the sound of a pin dropping.

bradford · 08-23-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryn

too bad in real life it would be the sound of a pin dropping.

*ting*

R32 · 08-23-2007, 02:43 PM

i bet the dealer would likely not notice unless you have a problem. meaning, they would still fix broken switches and trim pieces, etc, if you take a don't ask/don't tell approach. i wouldn't advertise having it, but even if they find out about it, whether they make a stink about it would be totally variable.

if/when i get a 135i, i plan to do all sorts of things that might void the warranty (track pads/wheels, suspension, chip, as well as lsd), so i'm not too worried about it.

of course, it is easier to chunk your warranty when you have a vw-- the dealer service is so horrendous that it is like buying a car with no warranty at all.

123d · 08-23-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradford

*ting*

This is some of the best reading on the forum for some time... it's been so dull here.

BTW:
Ka-THUNK!!

blackjoker · 08-23-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradford

All I'm saying is that you should drive the car before you make any grand plans for a diff. You might be surprised...

+1

kurichan · 08-23-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryn

Actually, it's not transferring torque, it's just maintaining torque, as apposed to ASC reatarding it.

While toque may not be proactively "transferred," the act of stopping one wheel from spinning in an open differential will result in torque being sent to the other wheel.

Technically, it's indirect, but there is a causal relationship created, so in a sense, it is "passively" forcing a transfer which amounts to the same thing.

I guess I'll drive it an decide.

It might actually be decent...

mikeo · 08-23-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradford

... All I'm saying is that you should drive the car before you make any grand plans for a diff. You might be surprised...

You are right, of course. I've been bad-mouthing the 'electro-LSD' and have just seen a few videos of the 335i (which has the electro-LSD) doing drag launches, with minimal wheelspin. Very impressive indeed.

Nixon · 08-23-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryn

My wife drives a 2006 A4Q 2.0t, and I have yet to push it enough to get wheel slip in it. Maybe I found plan for the weekend now.

You will fight the all-wheel drive all weekend trying to get any decent wheel spin going on. Watch out you don't glaze the clutch as you try increasingly higher and higher RPM clutch drops to get a decent spin going. You need the RPM to get the turbo spinning to get the torque to spin the wheels hard.

The best way I've found to get an AWD turbo to launch into massive spin is to launch it into a sideways 4-wheel drift in a LARGE empty parking lot. Start by going in a large circle with the engine at around 3500 RPM in either first or second gear. (first gear works easier, second gear is more fun).

Then floor it, turn the wheel in a bit harder, then quickly DAB the clutch just barely enough to let the RPM's start to jump. Don't ride the clutch, and don't push it to the floor. Just stab at it quickly, pulling your foot off immediately. Keep the gas floored.

Turn the wheel back to counter-steer against the turn. If everything worked right, you will now be churning smoke from all four tires while heading in a straight line down the parking lot with the rear end hung out at about 20 degrees.

Chipping your car helps, and practicing in the snow in the winter before you try it on pavement helps. A little extra pressure in the tires helps.

Do NOT let your wife see this....

BTW -

TIMBER!!
<wait a few seconds>
CRASH!!
PS - If someone's e-member falls in an e-forest, does it still make a sound if no one is there to flame it?

Advevo · 08-23-2007, 04:51 PM

What i want to know is this.

I have a 130i with an aftermarket LSD and its fantastic.

I don t believe in an electronic diff. It will never be as good as a mechanical one because there is braking involved.

But this i need to know before i order a 135i.

My 130i has dsc and dtc modus en when pressing once dsc is off then its in the dtc modus when holding a button longer than 3 sec everything is off and i have an open diff working on a standard 130i.

If i press longer than 3 sec on de 135i dsc butten do i still have the EDL working. If yes i have a major problem installing a mechanical diff. Those 2 cannot work together. Then i will not buy a 135i. When pressing 3 sec on dsc button every electronic thing should be off and the car has an open diff. Then i can install a proper LSD

bradford · 08-23-2007, 05:41 PM

Yes, the EDL will be functional even with DSC turned off.

You can disable EDL by disabling ABS via the fuse, if you wish, but obviously you will not have ABS either then.

I don't see what the problem is with EDL and a true limited slip differential though. EDL will only become active if one wheel is SLIPPING (IE no traction). If the LSD is doing it's job correctly you shouldn't have one wheel slipping. No?

08-23-2007, 02:23 PM	#26
bradford Major 28 Rep 1,035 Posts Drives: 2008 SGM 135i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chicago > * iTrader: (4)	It definitely is ambiguous, but I guarantee that it will be active 24/7, unless you pull the ABS fuse. Wanna bet $50? :-)
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08-23-2007, 02:27 PM	#32
gotgemini2000 Private First Class 23 Rep 158 Posts Drives: G80 & E46 M3, 6 speed manuals Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: PA iTrader: (0)	I still don't understand why they couldn't give us a mechanical diff as well as the traction control system. When my father ordered his 1992 BMW 325i the mechanical differential was a 510 dollar option. Given this fact and the fact that the M cars have both the traction control system and the mechanical differentials, it seems to me that it is a step backwards to get rid of the mechanical differential. All this being said, as was mentioned above, it is way to early to make judgments on a car that no one has driven, but a mechanical differential seems like such an obvious must have in a car designed for "driving enthusiasts".
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08-23-2007, 02:30 PM	#34
bradford Major 28 Rep 1,035 Posts Drives: 2008 SGM 135i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chicago > * iTrader: (4)	lol!
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08-23-2007, 02:31 PM	#35
larryn Lieutenant General 2148 Rep 10,176 Posts Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	too bad in real life it would be the sound of a pin dropping.
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08-23-2007, 02:43 PM	#37
R32 Second Lieutenant 7 Rep 222 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jul 2007 iTrader: (0)	i bet the dealer would likely not notice unless you have a problem. meaning, they would still fix broken switches and trim pieces, etc, if you take a don't ask/don't tell approach. i wouldn't advertise having it, but even if they find out about it, whether they make a stink about it would be totally variable. if/when i get a 135i, i plan to do all sorts of things that might void the warranty (track pads/wheels, suspension, chip, as well as lsd), so i'm not too worried about it. of course, it is easier to chunk your warranty when you have a vw-- the dealer service is so horrendous that it is like buying a car with no warranty at all.
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08-23-2007, 04:51 PM	#43
Advevo Banned 581 Rep 1,170 Posts Drives: M2 Competition, E30 M3 DTM Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Country where the taxes are too high!! iTrader: (0)	What i want to know is this. I have a 130i with an aftermarket LSD and its fantastic. I don t believe in an electronic diff. It will never be as good as a mechanical one because there is braking involved. But this i need to know before i order a 135i. My 130i has dsc and dtc modus en when pressing once dsc is off then its in the dtc modus when holding a button longer than 3 sec everything is off and i have an open diff working on a standard 130i. If i press longer than 3 sec on de 135i dsc butten do i still have the EDL working. If yes i have a major problem installing a mechanical diff. Those 2 cannot work together. Then i will not buy a 135i. When pressing 3 sec on dsc button every electronic thing should be off and the car has an open diff. Then i can install a proper LSD
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-23-2007, 05:41 PM	#44
bradford Major 28 Rep 1,035 Posts Drives: 2008 SGM 135i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chicago > * iTrader: (4)	Yes, the EDL will be functional even with DSC turned off. You can disable EDL by disabling ABS via the fuse, if you wish, but obviously you will not have ABS either then. I don't see what the problem is with EDL and a true limited slip differential though. EDL will only become active if one wheel is SLIPPING (IE no traction). If the LSD is doing it's job correctly you shouldn't have one wheel slipping. No?
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