135I chips?

[TexasKid]

If I had a car out of warranty (or very deep pockets) I would easily get the JB3 over the Dinan, but I'm a little bitch when it comes to warranties. If my 1 wasn't under warranty (and being leased) I would totally load that f*cker up with every upgrade imaginable. The JB3 obviously puts out more power and for less money...I'd have cats, intercooler, pipes, etc...whatever I could fit under the hood. People, quit whining over them internets...it don't make ya cool. haha

[bfi2906]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

No one is interested in participating in warranty fraud. If you install a modification and it causes undo wear and tear due to misuse like running a race gas map on pump gas, or improper installation, you should pay for those repairs. Not BMW. On the other hand, just because you have a tune and your fuel pump goes out, which is a common problem on unmodified cars, does not mean BMW should be off the hook. In the end it is up to each customer to make those decisions for themselves.

If someone is the worrying type, empower yourself with the BT cable. The JB line of tuners is the only one that offers BT Basic for almost nothing when bought with a new tune. The BT reads/deletes everything the dealer can see. So pick an undetectable tune, use the BT as a backstop, and sleep easy at night

Mike

Then perhaps you might consider not selling a product that could be used to facilitate it. And offering advice and a level of assurance by things like Post #41 of this thread...

"We are talking about removing the tune before going in for service. With the JB+ its a 1 minute job, and with the JB3 you can actually turn it off from within the car or just take it out (30min job). With the JB3 off the only way to tell its in the car is if they actually open up the ECU compartment which is not standard protocol, but for added peace of mind you can just remove the tune and since its FULLY PnP there is absolutely no trace of it being installed.

Mike"

and post # 42 of this thread...

"**If you are worried or paranoid or can't sleep at night with a tuned car, GET A BT CABLE**

With the BT cable you can scan and clear any codes and once you return the car to stock you can scan again and ensure its fine. With a BT tool there are absolutely NO worries and the BT cable is the best tool for the job which is why we offer it as a package with both the JB3 and JB+

Mike"

and indeed this very post.....

"If someone is the worrying type, empower yourself with the BT cable. The JB line of tuners is the only one that offers BT Basic for almost nothing when bought with a new tune. The BT reads/deletes everything the dealer can see. So pick an undetectable tune, use the BT as a backstop, and sleep easy at night

Mike"

I do see some contradictions here.

I'm afraid actions speak louder than words, and disclaimers are voided by action.

So back to my original suggestion, I wasn't referring to folks doing something silly like "running a race gas map on pump gas, or improper installation". I was referring to using a tune in the way it is intended.

So, if a tune is not detectible, or there's a way to make sure "there is absolutely no trace of it being installed", and the manufacturers are confident of that, why not give the customer an additional level of assurance by undertaking to cover the highly unlikely outcome that the tune would give legitimate rise to BMW declining a warranty repair.

Clearly the JB range of products are great - there's no questioning that, and the sales support that fact. I'm simply trying to cover a gap that seems to be holding many back from a purchase - myself included.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by bfi2906

So, if a tune is not detectible, or there's a way to make sure "there is absolutely no trace of it being installed", and the manufacturers are confident of that, why not give the customer an additional level of assurance by undertaking to cover the highly unlikely outcome that the tune would give legitimate rise to BMW declining a warranty repair.

Clearly the JB range of products are great - there's no questioning that, and the sales support that fact. I'm simply trying to cover a gap that seems to be holding many back from a purchase - myself included.

I see no contradictions in what Mike is saying. He very clearly states that on normal maps it's very unlikely that you're going to throw a manipulation code, but if you're concerned about it you should buy the BT scanner and rest easy.

And are you suggesting he cover damages to your car with some sort of warranty?

Where do you guys get the notion that you should be able to add 100Hp to an engine and take no risk of financial obligation if you damage it? It's completely unreasonable to think that an operation the size of Burger tuning is going to provide warranty coverage on your engine. For them to do something like that they'd have to triple the cost of the JB3, and even that probably wouldn't cover it.

If you're going to crank the boost up on this engine you should have no expectation of coverage if that causes a failure. Not from BMW and certianly not from aftermarket companies. I'm not fond of people saying this, but it certainl rings true here: You've got to pay to play.

If you're not willing to accept the risk that comes with going much faster than stock, you've got no business tuning, and those of us who are willing to take the risk damn sure don't want the prices jacked up to Dinan levels in order to provide warranty coverage. If that's what you want, there are other options for you.

[shodanusmc]

Time to put this topic to bed. When I had a E55 211 Kleeman, I took responsibility if something blew. Fortunetely, the 3 years I had it, it was trouble free and provided tons of fun. I even had theLkeeman placard on the car, and the Techs all knew what I was running. If you want a tune, add-ons, and something happens, it is on you. If the dealer really looks, they will find it, and all are getting smarted and tougher. Even Chevy who used to look the other way on the Vette's are getting stringent. Any0one that believes that they can't tell if they really look is living in a dream castle in the sky. Not knocking any vendor, but they are in business to make money. You want a few extra horses, get the BMW Performance kit.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

So, if a tune is not detectible, or there's a way to make sure "there is absolutely no trace of it being installed", and the manufacturers are confident of that, why not give the customer an additional level of assurance by undertaking to cover the highly unlikely outcome that the tune would give legitimate rise to BMW declining a warranty
repair.

The tunes are setup so that one can remain anonymously tuned, or not, should they desire. The reason for this invisibility isn't to "hide" from BMW or facilitate your warranty fraud, but rather that the tune performs better when operating invisibly. If the ECU knows about the tune it attempts to lower torque output, throws codes, etc.

If you want a warranty for 48k miles and are comfortable with 50hp gains for ~$2000, and don't want to be "dishonest" about having a tune, Dinan might be a good option for you. On the other hand, there have been zero serious failures as the result of tuning. So you may be better off getting the JB+ and keeping the $1600 invested and using
that to cover any repairs that BMW doesn't cover.

Mike

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

Time to put this topic to bed. .

The only thing that's been put to bed here is your credibility.

Now, where's the proof? If it's possible, but it's never happened, then how do you know? Because someone behind the parts counter told you so? Get real!

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

The only thing that's been put to bed here is your credibility.

Now, where's the proof? If it's possible, but it's never happened, then how do you know? Because someone behind the parts counter told you so? Get real!

How about you growing a pair, and grow up. You offer nothing but your childish agenda, whatever the hell that is. I see no proof from you, nada, none. Did some guy at a parts counter molest you? Now run along Opie, you are getting quite boring. When youi get out of Jr. High, come on back and act like an adult. The bottom line is you pay to play, and if BMW decides to dig, they will find it. I provided names and numbers. What have you provided outside of looking like a small time fluffer?

[BroDoze]

Good grief. HTF did this thread digress so bad?

It is what it is. If you like it, buy it, if you don't, don't. WTF is so hard to understand people?

[shodanusmc]

Totally agree. If you want it, get it. If you have a problem and they deny your claim, don't cry about it. My last post to this idiotic dialog.

[imported_mega]

another thread with nobody proving bmw is able to detect the tune once removed and cleaned with bt, what a surprise

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

How about you growing a pair, and grow up. You offer nothing but your childish agenda, whatever the hell that is. I see no proof from you, nada, none. Did some guy at a parts counter molest you? Now run along Opie, you are getting quite boring. When youi get out of Jr. High, come on back and act like an adult. The bottom line is you pay to play, and if BMW decides to dig, they will find it. I provided names and numbers. What have you provided outside of looking like a small time fluffer?

I love the way you come in here, make a claim, refuse to back it up, call people names when they ask you support your claims, then tell other people to grow up. You've got nothing, and everyone here knows it.

And I wish you'd take the USMC off the end of your name. You're making us look bad.

[CoolToolGuy]

Originally Posted by bfi2906

I'm going to take the risk, and ask a simple question here.

That being the case, wouldn't this whole issue evaporate if the manufacturers of the tuning options (piggyback or ecu flash), through their agents and distributors, simply offered to cover genuine warranty work, if BMW declined due to their tune being detected. (this assumes that the piggyback was removed)

The economics here are that if they commit to cover the repairs, the money has to come from somewhere, and they are in business to make money.

Dinan is very up front about this. Steve Dinan has been to my Dinan dealer (which, to correct an earlier post in this thread, is NOT a BMW dealer) several times to talk about things, and he states clearly that part of his pricing formula for each product includes a percentage for warranty claims. So that is how he can afford to provide a warranty. If other tuners were to provide a warranty, they would likely have to raise their prices too (and subsequently endure pounding from the forum folks that they are overpriced.) That is the sad but true reality.

Have Fun,
Rick

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I love the way you come in here, make a claim, refuse to back it up, call people names when they ask you support your claims, then tell other people to grow up. You've got nothing, and everyone here knows it.

And I wish you'd take the USMC off the end of your name. You're making us look bad.

Sorry son, that is how it is. Grow up and get used to it. Unless you can prove otherwisr, give it a rest. Perhaps you tried to join the Corps but you did not make it out of the sick, lame and lazy Plt. \

My nothing sure does seem to make your panties bunch up. Now run along little man, you are boring.

I will say it again, BMW can tell if you have/had a tune if they dig.

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by CoolToolGuy

The economics here are that if they commit to cover the repairs, the money has to come from somewhere, and they are in business to make money.

Dinan is very up front about this. Steve Dinan has been to my Dinan dealer (which, to correct an earlier post in this thread, is NOT a BMW dealer) several times to talk about things, and he states clearly that part of his pricing formula for each product includes a percentage for warranty claims. So that is how he can afford to provide a warranty. If other tuners were to provide a warranty, they would likely have to raise their prices too (and subsequently endure pounding from the forum folks that they are overpriced.) That is the sad but true reality.

Have Fun,
Rick

Agreed. He provides coverage when BMW voids it for a failure. You put on a $300 piece of software and when you have trouble, you are on the hook. One of the reasons that the BMW Perf Kit is over priced. Then again, if the vendors that say it is invisible offered a warranty.....perhaps they should since it is invisible and BMW will never know a tune was on , right?

[CoolToolGuy]

OBTW, shodanusmc, its not just you. Yesterday a friend of mine (ahem) was in the middle of a firestorm with the IW*. He got smacked down big time, and he just went away (so far), but not without wimpering about someone needing to man up. Since I (I mean my friend) has seen this pattern other times in the past, it just seems to be one of those things that you have to put up with (like static) to ultimately find out what you are after. Please don't get too discouraged.

* IW = Internet Windbag

Have Fun,
Rick

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by CoolToolGuy

OBTW, shodanusmc, its not just you. Yesterday a friend of mine (ahem) was in the middle of a firestorm with the IW*. He got smacked down big time, and he just went away (so far), but not without wimpering about someone needing to man up. Since I (I mean my friend) has seen this pattern other times in the past, it just seems to be one of those things that you have to put up with (like static) to ultimately find out what you are after. Please don't get too discouraged.

* IW = Internet Windbag

Have Fun,
Rick

Oh give it a rest. You're just like this kid, who likes to make claims and then rather than actually back them up, you want to call people names and talk about how you won, when all you've really done is dodged the issue. It's pathetic honestly, but if figures you two would get along well, because you're both completely full of shit.

[shodanusmc]

Come on now Jeremmmy, how about just giving it a rest. People will make their own decisions, especially since you post out of both sides of your ass. Now run along, Spong Bob is starting up!

[shodanusmc]

""ally Posted by jeremyc74
If you go in for service and they pull a tampering code, then find evidence of a tune on the car, you can kiss your engine warranty goodbye. I've been there, done that. Telling customers otherwise just to secure a sale is shadey business and you need to stop.""

Thanks Son, that about says all that needs to be said!

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

""ally Posted by jeremyc74
If you go in for service and they pull a tampering code, then find evidence of a tune on the car, you can kiss your engine warranty goodbye. I've been there, done that. Telling customers otherwise just to secure a sale is shadey business and you need to stop.""

Thanks Son, that about says all that needs to be said!

Of course they'll deny coverage if they find tampering codes. What's your point?

That's why you use a BT scanner and check for them before you go in.

And it's sort of sad that you can't figure out how to properly quote someone. It's not that hard.

[MadMan77]

WTH are the moderators? This pointless thread needs to be closed.

While it may have started off well, the only purpose it now serves now is to boost certain individuals' post counts.

[BMW-driver]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Oh give it a rest. You're just like this kid, who likes to make claims and then rather than actually back them up, you want to call people names and talk about how you won, when all you've really done is dodged the issue. It's pathetic honestly, but if figures you two would get along well, because you're both completely full of shit.

+1. I agree with MadMan77
Moderators, can you please interfere? Posts likes this does not add the quality of 1addicts. I do agree on that.

[shodanusmc]

I second the motion.