2013 135is owners discussion and photos thread!

[10"]

Originally Posted by Bama335

Amen to that, mine will hopefully be auctioned by my estate some day

Just turned over 5,300 miles at the 5 year mark, with any luck....the auction wont be until 40,000+ miles!

MGM, nice P-car, a welcome addition to your stable

Kinda sad some of you peeps don't drive your cars....looking at it isn't the same as driving it! Forget about tomorrow it's all about today!!

[champignon]

Originally Posted by 10"

Kinda sad some of you peeps don't drive your cars....looking at it isn't the same as driving it! Forget about tomorrow it's all about today!!

I drive a "normal" amount every year, something in the range of 10,000 to 12,000 miles per year. Those miles are spread out over multiple cars, and also in rental cars I use in California visiting family, and in France.

5 or 10 years from now, if you are looking for a 135is with lower mileage that has been well treated, you will be glad that there are people like me out there.

[10"]

Originally Posted by champignon

I drive a "normal" amount every year, something in the range of 10,000 to 12,000 miles per year. Those miles are spread out over multiple cars, and also in rental cars I use in California visiting family, and in France.

5 or 10 years from now, if you are looking for a 135is with lower mileage that has been well treated, you will be glad that there are people like me out there.

Not really. I'd rather buy a higher mileage car that's been maintained really well over a car not being driven. Disuse destroys modern cars....things go brittle and break easier. This is why I prefer having 1 car and driving the shit out of it....and opening my wallet wide to maintain it. Can't imagine owning several cars that don't get driven; unless you're super wealthy to spend that kind of money and time on cars! Which you may be!! I am certainly not...

[champignon]

Originally Posted by 10"

Not really. I'd rather buy a higher mileage car that's been maintained really well over a car not being driven. Disuse destroys modern cars....things go brittle and break easier. This is why I prefer having 1 car and driving the shit out of it....and opening my wallet wide to maintain it. Can't imagine owning several cars that don't get driven; unless you're super wealthy to spend that kind of money and time on cars! Which you may be!! I am certainly not...

Of course, you have no data to support any of your contentions above, because there is no such data. Cars do need a certain amount of use in order to run properly, but that's not a huge amount, maybe 500 miles a year, using the car every couple or 3 months or so, fluids do need to be changed, batteries need to be on a tender, etc.

The single most important thing in keeping an older car in good shape is to garage it, hopefully avoiding temperature extremes. The same can be said about a new or newer car. People like to post about all the care they give their cars with paint surface treatments, leather treatments, etc. None of that shit benefits a car like garaging it and keeping it out of the elements does.

My cars do get driven, they just don't accumulate huge mileage. A couple of my cars are approaching 20 years old. Unless it is a beater, a collectible 15 or 20 year old car should be treated with respect, or it will soon become just another beater.

[Bama335]

Originally Posted by 10"

Kinda sad some of you peeps don't drive your cars....looking at it isn't the same as driving it! Forget about tomorrow it's all about today!!

It's not so much about saving it for tomorrow, it's about which car gets the miles and when. Like champignon, I have a number of cars (his stable is definitely better, tho), so the miles get spread around every year. As it's in the upstairs garage, it's really not in the right place to "gaze lovingly" at it all that much as well.

I was taking it up to the dragon once a year, but times have been pretty busy, so I haven't been up there since 2015 in the E82. I visited numerous times in the leased Z4is, that's now gone, so maybe the 135 will see another visit in the near future. In general, it gets between 500 and 1000 miles a year, and they aren't easy miles - the tires are already shot.

The 135ic gets between 5K and 7K a year mostly on weekend cruises, the wife's SUV gets 8K-10K in daily driving.

The vast majority of my miles are on a company Jeep Grand Cherokee - between 45K and 50K a year. Sometimes after an 8 hr drive back from FL or MO, you just don't want to drive any more, no matter how fun the 135is is.

[10"]

Originally Posted by champignon

Of course, you have no data to support any of your contentions above, because there is no such data. Cars do need a certain amount of use in order to run properly, but that's not a huge amount, maybe 500 miles a year, using the car every couple or 3 months or so, fluids do need to be changed, batteries need to be on a tender, etc.

The single most important thing in keeping an older car in good shape is to garage it, hopefully avoiding temperature extremes. The same can be said about a new or newer car. People like to post about all the care they give their cars with paint surface treatments, leather treatments, etc. None of that shit benefits a car like garaging it and keeping it out of the elements does.

My cars do get driven, they just don't accumulate huge mileage. A couple of my cars are approaching 20 years old. Unless it is a beater, a collectible 15 or 20 year old car should be treated with respect, or it will soon become just another beater.

It's well documented through the collector community that low mileage cars require more maintenance and are generally to be avoided. I wouldn't touch a 20 year old car with 15k miles....never. Would much rather have one with 75k miles.

Some people enjoy driving; some people don't. I think that's the take away message for people who don't drive their cars and spend most of their energy "storing" them...no offense.

I understand that people have different circumstances of course; but thinking that low mileage is only a good thing is certainly not accurate...

http://www.automobiliac.com/automobi...age-means.html

[champignon]

Originally Posted by 10"

It's well documented through the collector community that low mileage cars require more maintenance and are generally to be avoided. I wouldn't touch a 20 year old car with 15k miles....never. Would much rather have one with 75k miles.

Some people enjoy driving; some people don't. I think that's the take away message for people who don't drive their cars and spend most of their energy "storing" them...no offense.

I understand that people have different circumstances of course; but thinking that low mileage is only a good thing is certainly not accurate...

http://www.automobiliac.com/automobi...age-means.html

Your referenced article is a bunch of opinions backed by no research or facts whatsoever. I can go on automobile forums and collect a bunch of opinions and then barf them back here as if they were facts, just because so many people repeat the same things over and over. That's more of a commentary on the human psyche and the herd mentality than anything else.

Obviously, if you take a car and put it in a storage facility and never use it for 20 years, there are going to be problems with it. On the other hand, a car that is used but not used heavily, that goes in regularly for required services, that has things fixed when they go wrong, is in no way diminished by that sort of treatment. I'd love to see some actual data disproving that, but obviously, no such data exists, only anecdotal stuff repeated over and over again as if it were factual.

[10"]

Originally Posted by champignon

Your referenced article is a bunch of opinions backed by no research or facts whatsoever. I can go on automobile forums and collect a bunch of opinions and then barf them back here as if they were facts, just because so many people repeat the same things over and over. That's more of a commentary on the human psyche and the herd mentality than anything else.

Obviously, if you take a car and put it in a storage facility and never use it for 20 years, there are going to be problems with it. On the other hand, a car that is used but not used heavily, that goes in regularly for required services, that has things fixed when they go wrong, is in no way diminished by that sort of treatment. I'd love to see some actual data disproving that, but obviously, no such data exists, only anecdotal stuff repeated over and over again as if it were factual.

it's just an example. ask ANY real collector and they'll tell you the same. the guy who wrote that article has owned countless classics as does currently including an Alpine Renault, vintage Alfa Romeo race car, vintage Ferrari, etc etc.

Experience trumps data every single time. Opinions are far more valid when they are supported by experiences.

Most people who own 'low mileage' cars don't maintain them on time intervals instead they think their low mileage protects them thoroughly when in fact it's the opposite. Lower mileage cars break with the same time interval, in fact often sooner due to lack of use. I'm seeing on the 1M owners group constantly even though people are in denial of it. For example: if the N54/N55 water pump should be replaced at 50-60k miles it also has a 5-6 year interval. Most people with low mileage cars do not replace the water pump after 5-6 years even though they should; even if they're at 12k miles.

I wouldn't touch a low mileage car.....especially modern. keeping a car cosmetically clean is worthless. have these owners been changing the transmission fluid every 2 years even if they put 1k miles on it in 2 years? Brake fluid? Are the hoses being replaced 8-10 years? More than likely they are not being done. Cosmetics is just a cover for neglect most of the time. Are you people those kinds of owners? I don't know....maybe you're an eagle when it comes to doing all of that then good for you. The reality is that when people don't need to use something; they don't maintain it as well.

https://jalopnik.com/stop-buying-old...ant-1729343464

for example if you're buying an old italian car the idea is ALWAYS to buy one that's been running consistently. The sitting for long periods of time just makes everything worse. Mechanical objects of ANY TYPE require movement and use to function seamlessly. You don't need 'data' (i don't know what the fuck kind of data you'd even present for this)----you need experiences and common sense.

[bm996tt]

A low mile car will always be more desirable and of course bring more money. I fought this battle with 996tt crowd with them telling me prices will never rise and to just beat the crap out of them with a who cares thought= I disagreed and time proved me right. I love high mile cars and own a few but never kid myself that they are worth much to speak of, I do over maintain my cars and keep them above average cosmetically. The bottom line is that some people have more disposable income to spend on whatever they want and whos business is that= know ones. I have met people with collections worth in the millions and they worked hard to pay for what they have, they can run them off a cliff if they want, none of my business.

[Bama335]

Originally Posted by 10"

Most people who own 'low mileage' cars don't maintain them on time intervals instead they think their low mileage protects them thoroughly when in fact it's the opposite. Lower mileage cars break with the same time interval, in fact often sooner due to lack of use. I'm seeing on the 1M owners group constantly even though people are in denial of it. For example: if the N54/N55 water pump should be replaced at 50-60k miles it also has a 5-6 year interval. Most people with low mileage cars do not replace the water pump after 5-6 years even though they should; even if they're at 12k miles.

And here's the issue - you generalize and presume that I won't maintain my car just because it has low miles - and yet, amazingly, it's already had 4 oil changes, a coolant flush, 2 brake fluid flushes, a trans fluid change and a diff change....sound to you like I'm mailing in the maintenance? Yeah, didn't think so. The E88 also gets similar care, as does the SUV.

Is that overkill? Likely so, but I still did it - I grew up working on my cars, it's also therapeutic.

At 8 years in, no matter the miles, the brake lines will be changed out, I know rubber degrades over time. I will also do the water pump and t-stat at that time as well, along with the coolant system hoses. I'll see what the door seals look like, they don't see much sun, but if they are showing signs of wear, they will be replaced.

Your comment that those who have low mile cars apparently don't like to drive is also misguided. I love to drive not only my BMWs, but also just driving in general - I've gone over 300K miles in the past 5 years....the open road has allure to some, I am one of those - I just so happen to be required to drive the Jeep for most of those miles.

If you follow BAT, you'll see again and again that the lower mile cars always get a premium over the higher miles ones (all other things equal) - but the real key is can the owner prove maintenance? If he can and the miles are low, the value goes up.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by 10"

it's just an example. ask ANY real collector and they'll tell you the same. the guy who wrote that article has owned countless classics as does currently including an Alpine Renault, vintage Alfa Romeo race car, vintage Ferrari, etc etc.

I guess you will need to define what a "real collector" is for us less-than-real collectors. There is a whole bunch of vehicles I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, including anything made in Italy. But then that is just a reflection of my own experience with Italian-made mechanical products; I would never buy anything mechanical of Italian manufacture other than a high end espresso machine or grinder. Otherwise, they just don't work reliably, no matter how much you use or don't use them. Taking but one "anecdotal" observation, my business partner owns a 5 year old, 3 wheeled, Italian "scooter" he bought for $6000 on sale marked down from $10K when the dealer decided to discontinue carrying the line. It has never run more than 50 miles without breaking down, and it's major function right now is propped up against the fence gate to keep it closed.

Originally Posted by 10"

Experience trumps data every single time. Opinions are far more valid when they are supported by experiences.

Sorry, you have lost me there. I used to practice medicine in a field where you could do really significant damage to patients if you just went with your gut instincts or peoples' opinions; I didn't. I require data to be convinced, sorry.

Originally Posted by 10"

Most people who own 'low mileage' cars don't maintain them on time intervals instead they think their low mileage protects them thoroughly when in fact it's the opposite. Lower mileage cars break with the same time interval, in fact often sooner due to lack of use. I'm seeing on the 1M owners group constantly even though people are in denial of it. For example: if the N54/N55 water pump should be replaced at 50-60k miles it also has a 5-6 year interval. Most people with low mileage cars do not replace the water pump after 5-6 years even though they should; even if they're at 12k miles.

Again, that is your opinion and not supported by any facts that you have provided or can provide. My own observation is that most car owners aren't very good at taking care of their cars once they get out of warranty, and that is irrespective of the mileage. As to the water pump example you give, these forums are replete with people reporting how their water pump went out at 25,000 or 30,000 miles, and with people saying they got 100,000 miles plus out of. Failures of this item appear to me (someone who probably couldn't identify the water pump in the car unless you told me where to look for it) to be largely idiosyncratic and not on any particular schedule, although some people, for peace of mind, recommend replacing them after say, 60K miles.

Originally Posted by 10"

I wouldn't touch a low mileage car.....especially modern. keeping a car cosmetically clean is worthless. have these owners been changing the transmission fluid every 2 years even if they put 1k miles on it in 2 years? Brake fluid? Are the hoses being replaced 8-10 years? More than likely they are not being done. Cosmetics is just a cover for neglect most of the time. Are you people those kinds of owners? I don't know....maybe you're an eagle when it comes to doing all of that then good for you. The reality is that when people don't need to use something; they don't maintain it as well.

Your opinion again and you are as entitled to it as I am to my own opinion. Usually when I don't have the facts necessary to come to a conclusion on a topic like this topic (as I suggest that none of us here do), I would tend to go with what the marketplace is telling me, because generally a huge mass of people acting in a free market will make rational decisions. And in that case, the jury is in; a 1M with 10,000 miles on it will sell for tons more than one with 75,000, or 100,000 miles on it. That is undeniable.

Originally Posted by 10"

https://jalopnik.com/stop-buying-old...ant-1729343464

for example if you're buying an old italian car the idea is ALWAYS to buy one that's been running consistently. The sitting for long periods of time just makes everything worse. Mechanical objects of ANY TYPE require movement and use to function seamlessly. You don't need 'data' (i don't know what the fuck kind of data you'd even present for this)----you need experiences and common sense.

You can see my comments above, but no, you are not correct in at least my own case; I require data, because in my own experience common knowledge and oft-repeated forum and online blog postings tend to be unsubstantiated and unproveable. Once you dig below the surface, if you do, you often find the unreliability of this sort of information.

[bm996tt]

Really not worth debating, some don't like low miles others like myself do. I'm looking for a very low mile 996tt with Aero-x50 no sunroof. Look at it this way =more nice low mile cars for us that want them and plenty of nice higher mile cars for those that think they are the ticket .

[Bama335]

Originally Posted by champignon

I require data, because in my own experience common knowledge and oft-repeated forum and online blog postings tend to be unsubstantiated and unproveable. Once you dig below the surface, if you do, you often find the unreliability of this sort of information.

Champignon, I think we went to the same school.....the one where the motto is:

"In GOD we trust, ALL others must bring data"

[champignon]

I feel like I need to add an addendum on my comments regarding vintage (15+ year old) car purchases, regardless of the miles. A lot of this applies to younger, used cars as well.

I have now personally purchased 4 such vehicles, 3 of them BMWs, and 1 a Porsche (996 TT). I almost bought another Porsche, but it threw a CEL at the time of planned purchase. I have also looked at scads and scads of vintage cars that I was considering purchasing. Of the 4 vintage cars I did buy, I still own 2 of them (the 2003 Porsche 911 996 TT, and a 2000 Z3M Coupe).

My suggestions to anyone considering such a vintage car purchase:

(1) Always assume that the car has not been maintained properly until this is proven otherwise, with documentation that you can believe;

(2) Have someone who knows what they are doing look over the car before purchase (e.g. PPI, however PPIs are often next to worthless);

(3) Look at the car yourself before paying for it, even with a PPI; if you avoid sight-unseen, long distance purchases, you will thank yourself for it later.

(4) Assume that the car is in worse shape than you would think even after looking over documentation and getting your PPI;

(5) Plan on replacing the tires immediately or very soon after purchase;

(6) Budget a significant amount for unanticipated repairs in the first year or two. By significant sum, I mean $3 to $5,000.

If you do this, and you are careful, and you check out the seller, the odds are that you will not be disappointed.

[bm996tt]

^ All common sense things that I do and would hope others.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by bm996tt

^ All common sense things that I do and would hope others.

I think it's the part about budgeting for repairs no matter how wonderful you think the car is, which is *somewhat* original.

My 2000 Z3M coupe was a single owner car with around 58,000 miles on it when I bought it 3 years ago. The owner was a married lady whose husband had bought it for her as her birthday gift 15 years earlier. It came with an accordion case containing receipts from every oil change, service, brake pad change, battery change, etc. etc. etc. that it had ever had. I got a PPI at the local dealership, and a walk through with a mechanic while on the lift, and this guy was very familiar with this car and with E36s in general. He pointed out pitfalls (some of which I knew of) like the subframe floor which can come apart in these cars (not in mine).

Anyway, during the first 2 years I had to replace the clutch, certain parts in the manual shifter, and the entire window washer system which itself was almost a $1000 repair. Totaled I have spent at least $3500, closer to $4000 on this "perfect," single owner car.

Old BMWs are expensive to own, and you can pretty much expect that anyone selling one has stopped doing elective work on the car for the last year or two (or longer) of their ownership.

[bm996tt]

I do most of my own work and usually replace things long before failure. I agree about things that will arise that aren't planned for. I have spent around 4000 on my 135is just on paint protection film and ceramic coating. I cant get thru a week without a surprise expense with the houses or one of my vehicles/equipment and just consider it a part of life. Actually were lucky to have such problems lol.

[Fade135is]

Anyone know where I can find a good front 313 rim for my 135is At a decent price? ECS and Turner no longer carry them. I had a blow out yesterday and it no longer looks perfectly round. Definitely willing to go used or refurbished. Need to get my car back on the road ASAP.

[Bama335]

Originally Posted by Fade135is

Anyone know where I can find a good front 313 rim for my 135is At a decent price? ECS and Turner no longer carry them. I had a blow out yesterday and it no longer looks perfectly round. Definitely willing to go used or refurbished. Need to get my car back on the road ASAP.

Looks like ECS still has them - ships in 2 days:

https://ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-...a/36116856666/

Also avail from BMW S ATL

https://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/...116856666.html

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Bama335

Looks like ECS still has them - ships in 2 days:

https://ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-...a/36116856666/

Also avail from BMW S ATL

https://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/...116856666.html

Can't speak to this specific part, however vendors like ECS tend to list a whole bunch of stuff that they don't have and that they assume that a supplier will or might furnish if a customer ever orders it. When the product ceases to be available from the supplier, the product sheet are often not updated to reflect this. So if these Rims have disappeared from the marketplace as new items, you will likely find, after ordering, that ECS kicks your order back to you as not being able to be fulfilled.

Simply finding an obscure or outdated part on the ECS website is no guarantee that they can supply it to you.

[bm996tt]

True about ECS not updating availability, I have ordered parts listed just to find out later that they cant be sourced. Disappointing but to their credit they did exhaust all avenues including searching in Europe.

[AGAV13]

Hate to derail the thread again but I too picked up my 718 Boxster S last week.