Dual cone intake and WW meth kit dyno testing

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Just saw the results posted and thought I'd share them over here. There has been a lot of speculation on the dual cone intake performance as well as how the WW meth kit might do on a completely stock car. These dyno charts answer some of those questions.

Had a couple hours open today so I headed over to the dyno to do a little testing. The test car is our 2008 135i which is now 100% bone stock including the OEM rims/runflats, stock exhaust, stock intercooler, stock intake, etc. Fuel was 91 octane Shell with a can of octane booster. I've been doing long term testing on the octane booster and add a can during every fill up. Lab results have shown it makes our 91 octane fuel similar to the 93 octane the rest of the country gets. So far I really like the stuff.

For the dyno testing I did a few runs in each of these trims: stock, JB4 map 1, JB4 map 1 + dual cone intake, JB4 map 2, JB4 map 2 + dual cone intake, JB4 map 3 (WW meth kit enabled with 45 additive), and finally JB4 map 3 + dual cone intake. For the meth runs to keep it realistic I used off the shelf 49/51 boost juice, a production/unmodified JB4 board, and a single CM10 nozzle. I kept the settings the same between the meth runs to isolate only the intake. Then I took the best of each set for the comparisons. Run to run
variance within each group was pretty small.

Overall I was pretty happy with the results. As expected the higher the boost levels the more gains the dual cone intake provided over the restrictive stock airbox. Even on map 1 with it's heavy boost taper to 9psi at redline gains of 10hp+ were observed. On map 2 we got an additional 20hp+ up top. Finally on map 3 with meth (~17psi) gains were as much as 25hp+.

I was also pleased with the performance of the WW meth kit. Getting a solid 400rw with ~$1000 worth of mods that can be installed and removed in a half hour is pretty insane. Can't wait to get this kit in to production.

[The Guy]

Great results! Looking forward to this products availability.

[MilehighM3]

Close the hood on those dcis and watch what happens....

[BMW86]

Sick numbers! That's a lot of power for 1k

[RealityDesign]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

Close the hood on those dcis and watch what happens....

Drive the car with the hood closed and see what happens...you get the gains you see in the dyno sheet.

Why the hell would you close the hood on a car when it's standing still and run it on the dyno? I don't know about you, but my car doesn't make 400whp+ standing still at the stoplight, it makes it going 60+mph with air flowing in to my engine bay.

[MilehighM3]

How much cold air is there in the engine bay? Oh, none. At road speed heated air across the radiator along with engine block heat creates a nice power loss for those with dcis. Hot air = power loss, period. Dynos are too easy to manipulate...just as easy to pull the stock airbox lid off on the dyno and show a 10 hp increase, same as a dci on a dyno power wise. Remove the "restriction" as vendors call it

[RealityDesign]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

How much cold air is there in the engine bay? Oh, none. At road speed heated air across the radiator along with engine block heat creates a nice power loss for those with dcis. Hot air = power loss, period. Dynos are too easy to manipulate...just as easy to pull the stock airbox lid off on the dyno and show a 10 hp increase, same as a dci on a dyno power wise. Remove the "restriction" as vendors call it

The stock snorkel / vents for the airbox are still installed with DCI. The damn thing is less than an inch from the front cone. If you don't think cold air comes in through that snorkel, then your stock airbox is hopeless too.

Do the DCI's suck in hotter air than a stock airbox? Yes. Is there absolutely no cold air going in to your engine bay at speed like you're suggesting? No. There's actually quite a bit.

Though, quite frankly, with meth none of that matters anyway.

[sear]

There are numerous posts in the E90 section about the downside of DCIs. Recorded IATs 10-15F higher than with stock box. Sure they'll flow better than the stock box and in certain scenarios provide hp gains. I'd also agree that if you're running meth, the weakness of the DCIs is primarily negated.

The best solution to improve performance (from an intake) is both higher flow (less restriction) and colder air. There are numerous test results and tales of traffic heatsoak running DCIs in the e90 section.

Does all of this mean that DCIs don't provide gains? No, its just that they arn't always going to give you the best performance.

There is a growing trend of owners building Mr. 5 like CAIs (Basically a DIY of the approach taken by the Dinan intake) All the results appear promising on this approach AND good news is that you can use ONE of your DCI filters to make one

I've got nothing against DCIs and would have no issues running them myself if I was also running Meth, just wanted to share some addition rational for why DCIs have gone out of favor by a number of folks.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by sear

There are numerous posts in the E90 section about the downside of DCIs. Recorded IATs 10-15F higher than with stock box. Sure they'll flow better than the stock box and in certain scenarios provide hp gains. I'd also agree that if you're running meth, the weakness of the DCIs is primarily negated.

The best solution to improve performance (from an intake) is both higher flow (less restriction) and colder air. There are numerous test results and tales of traffic heatsoak running DCIs in the e90 section.

Does all of this mean that DCIs don't provide gains? No, its just that they arn't always going to give you the best performance.

There is a growing trend of owners building Mr. 5 like CAIs (Basically a DIY of the approach taken by the Dinan intake) All the results appear promising on this approach AND good news is that you can use ONE of your DCI filters to make one

I've got nothing against DCIs and would have no issues running them myself if I was also running Meth, just wanted to share some addition rational for why DCIs have gone out of favor by a number of folks.

Here is an easy test for you if you have a JB4 as it gives you the ability to watch air intake temperature in dash. Install the stock airbox and let the car idle for 15 minutes. Record the highest temperature seen. Repeat the test with a DCI. You may be surprised by the results. Also keep in mind most of the people who are obsessed with their intakes are not the same people who are running the record times at the dragstrips. Ideally no pressure drop and colder air would be preferred. But the long 2.5" - 3" piping snaked around through many of these cold air intakes makes for even more restriction and less power. The only cold air intake that will perform on par with a DCI is the Dinan style (or Mr5 home made) but the track results have still proven the DCI has the edge.

Mike

[RnmEvo9]

If I was using meth, I'd sport a dci. On the dyno, it does show the dci breathing better at high rpms which also correlates to drag strip results. However, for simple daily driving, the stock box seems to perform the best for me in these hot Florida summer temps with few bolt ons (tune, fmic, dps). I don't know what it is, but that is just me. I don't spend much of my time in high rpms daily driving so that could be a reason.

[sear]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Here is an easy test for you if you have a JB4 as it gives you the ability to watch air intake temperature in dash. Install the stock airbox and let the car idle for 15 minutes. Record the highest temperature seen. Repeat the test with a DCI. You may be surprised by the results. Also keep in mind most of the people who are obsessed with their intakes are not the same people who are running the record times at the dragstrips. Ideally no pressure drop and colder air would be preferred. But the long 2.5" - 3" piping snaked around through many of these cold air intakes makes for even more restriction and less power. The only cold air intake that will perform on par with a DCI is the Dinan style (or Mr5 home made) but the track results have still proven the DCI has the edge.

Mike

The ideal test would be to measure intake temps pre turbo, but this would require more sensors and is unrealistic for most to accomplish.
A better test would be to log IATs through a 3 gear pull making sure ambient temps are the same and starting oil temps are the same with each setup.

The idle test suggested won't really prove the comparision of inlet temps at intake becasue the FMIC (not being anywhere near its soak limit) will cool down the intake air prior to the IAT measurement. The the multi-gear pulll, if intake temps are greater, you'd expect the FMIC to soak sooner thus resulting in higher recorded IATs. I'm sure there are other valid ways to test as well...

[RealityDesign]

Can I ask a stupid question? Are you guys sitting in rush hour traffic in 100 degree summer days and then doing quarter mile pulls? I don't understand why heat soak in traffic matters at all. Who cares if you lose 5-10whp in stop and go traffic? That is the entire downside of the DCI, and what everyone complains about.

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to drive fast on OPEN roads where my car is actually MOVING, not idling for 15 minutes in my garage or sitting in traffic on the 405. That said, the Mr. 5 intake is great, and if you don't mind mangling your stock airbox go for it.

[sear]

Originally Posted by RealityDesign

Can I ask a stupid question? Are you guys sitting in rush hour traffic in 100 degree summer days and then doing quarter mile pulls? I don't understand why heat soak in traffic matters at all. Who cares if you lose 5-10whp in stop and go traffic? That is the entire downside of the DCI, and what everyone complains about.

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to drive fast on OPEN roads where my car is actually MOVING, not idling for 15 minutes in my garage or sitting in traffic on the 405. That said, the Mr. 5 intake is great, and if you don't mind mangling your stock airbox go for it.

Its not that you loose the power while in the traffic, its that you loose it when you finally emerge from a traffic (or anytime your stopped for more than a second or two). Unless your on the freeway this is gonna happen often. If you are someone who goes to the drag strip, the staging lanes produce a similar phenomenon. Yea you can keep your hood open while in the lanes, but when your close to your turn to run you still have to idle enough with a very hot engine bay (especially on later runs).

Its also not just about loosing 5-10hp coming out of a stop, but more about edging yourself closer to heatsoak of your FMIC toward the end of a pull. Cooler start means prolonging hitting the point of timing being pulled.

If your someone who likes what you get out of the DCI, go for it and enjoy. There is no hate for you from me. Just remember that the open debates on these forums to bring independent test results about products is a gift that you can choose to use or not.

I have a set of DCIs I just bought with intensions of using them for my Mr. 5 intake, but decided to go with a bigger single cone instead so maybe I'll run some comparision tests (via logs) in a few weeks to add to the independent data collection on this subject...

[Rob@Cobb]

Here is a little testing I did with DCIs vs. a stock air box. Hood closed with 136k CFM fan blowing on the car with fresh air being pulled from outside the building. Ambient temps where in the high 90s iirc. Keep in mind we don't sell DCIs nor do we plan to, this was simply a test based on customer request.

http://blogs.cobbtuning.com/2011/06/...ir-box-vs-dci/

There might be a limitation when the hood is closed. Unfortunately I didn't test the DCIs with the hood open. IIRC the Evo IX has a similar issue where cone based intake does not make more power given the issue has to do with getting fresh air to the intake itself. They found modifying the stock air box to pull air from the fender made the most gains and with fresh ambient air.

Cheers,
Rob

[Rob@Cobb]

Originally Posted by RealityDesign

Can I ask a stupid question? Are you guys sitting in rush hour traffic in 100 degree summer days and then doing quarter mile pulls? I don't understand why heat soak in traffic matters at all. Who cares if you lose 5-10whp in stop and go traffic? That is the entire downside of the DCI, and what everyone complains about.

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to drive fast on OPEN roads where my car is actually MOVING, not idling for 15 minutes in my garage or sitting in traffic on the 405. That said, the Mr. 5 intake is great, and if you don't mind mangling your stock airbox go for it.

Hot air lowers the detonation threshold of the motor on top of the loss in power. Guys who track in warmer conditions also have issues with DCIs pulling in excessively hot air.

Cheers,
Rob