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      02-11-2016, 06:48 AM   #1
tuj
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about to pull the trigger on tires/wheels for the season - help?

Hey guys:

I am looking to pull the trigger on a wheel/tire package for this season. I plan on doing about 5-7 HDPE's during which I will probably be doing 25 laps or so on a tight track that is more like a very fast autocross course than a road course.

TireRack recommended the R888's to me, and based on my research these seem like a good tire to go with. Thoughts?

Secondly, they recommended 235 up front, 265 in back. They said 265 is an 'aggressive' fitment and will require modifications to the fender liners. Is this true? Will I need spacers? I'm looking at the Enkei RPF1 18x8.5 wheels which are +40mm offset, 6.22" backspace.

Finally, they recommended a 8.5 width wheel up front and a 9 in back. Not sure how to set this up on their website...

Lastly obviously running more camber with these tires is better. Will the Dinan camber plates give me at least -2 degrees?
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      02-11-2016, 10:22 AM   #2
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+40mm in the rear on a 9" wheel won't work without a serious fender roll.

I think you should do some research on wheel/tire fitments.

Are you ready for a R-Comp like tire?
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      02-11-2016, 10:26 AM   #3
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OK, will the 8.5" wheels work with a 265?

Yes I have experience with R-compounds. I have about 6 seasons of autox on Kuhmo V710's and 10 track days on Dunlop SSR's, both in different cars than the BMW.
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      02-11-2016, 10:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuj View Post
OK, will the 8.5" wheels work with a 265?

Yes I have experience with R-compounds. I have about 6 seasons of autox on Kuhmo V710's and 10 track days on Dunlop SSR's, both in different cars than the BMW.
The issue isn't the width, it's the offset of the wheel. Check out the wheel/tire section.

This has lots of options with fitment detailed.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216413
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      02-11-2016, 12:07 PM   #5
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OK, so I'm really confused. I understand now the issue is offset, so I'm going to forget all about the Enkei's and run Apex ARC8's instead.

Two questions:
1. What offset do I need? ET45?

2. What size tires can I get away with if I am limited by stock camber adjustments (or perhaps Dinan camber plates)? I can run spacers if necessary. I see E82MSport is running 245 up front but I'm guessing that is with at least -2 camber? And 255 in back, will 265 not fit?

Thanks all.
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      02-12-2016, 10:51 AM   #6
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Typically APEX recommends staggered 18-inch front/rear for the 1-series non-M, which is what I have.

Front - 18x8.5 ET45
Rear - 18x9.5 ET62

With stock suspension and factory alignment you should have no problem fitting 225/40/18 (front) and 265/35/18 rear. With additional front camber (roughly -1.0 to -2.0) you should be able to fit a 235/40/18 on the front. Fitment will also be determined by the tire you choose because some tires run wider given the same sizing. Any wider than a 235/40 and you will need more camber, fender rolling, bumper tabs trimmed and possibly 3-5mm spacer with stock suspension.

My setup fits a 245/35 in front with adjustable camber plates (-2.5 street - -3.5 track) and I have modified my coilovers with some fabricated parts along with fender rolling and tabs trimmed. I have zero rubbing on track. I run a 255/35 in the rear because I'm stock hp/tq and I wanted a closer balance ft/rr...and 255's are cheaper.

If you're on stock suspension (which is very under damped and soft on the 1-series) it's only going to make that more apparent with R-Comps. Without lots of camber you wont be getting your money's worth along with performance and you will wear them out faster. But that's my opinion, I'm sure others will provide more input.

Here's what I would do. Get wheels with proper offsets, choose an extreme performance summer tire setup like Star Spec ZII's or RE71-R's in 235F/265R, get the Dinan plates and M3/TRW front control arms (combined you will see roughly -2.5 camber) and a proper alignment. These tires are OK for the street (RE71-R's will wear faster) so you can run them all summer and to and from the track.

Like I mentioned in the other post, check out that link and see what other wheel size/offsets people are running. You might find another wheel you like better than the ARC-8's. I believe VMR has good 1-series offsets available as well.
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      02-12-2016, 11:44 AM   #7
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You don't understand the streets in PR. There is no way I'm putting good summer tires on the car for the street; I have had 4 punctures in the last 18 months here. The RFT is perfect for me for the street daily driving. And more importantly it gives peace of mind to my wife.

I understand what you mean about the r-comps and the under sprung, under-dampened stock suspension. I totally agree it will wear the tires faster. But since this car is my daily driver, I'm not willing to lower it AT ALL. I would go with coil-overs if I could find some that didn't lower the car. Ground clearance is an issue around here as it is already sometimes.

There are so many improvements I want to make to the car, I don't really know where to start. Seems like tires is the best bang for the buck over struts/shocks, springs, or an LSD or rear subframe bushings, all of which I plan to eventually do.

Guys: I just want to have fun at the track and not be so slow like I currently am on the stock Dunlop RFT's which are just no fun.
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      02-12-2016, 12:52 PM   #8
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Ok, here's an idea. Get 4 261M rear ET52 wheels and mount 245/35's R888's, run a 5mm front spacer and run the Dinan plates and max out your camber. Also get a good set of pads. It's a nice square setup that's been done on stock suspension. I've seen other's that have run 255/35 square but more camber and 10mm front spacer.
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      02-12-2016, 01:10 PM   #9
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E82MSport, thank you, that's a great suggestion; I really appreciate the specific recommendations. I just want to follow a tried a proven path, not trying to blaze any new trails here.

Just making sure, that is 4 identical ET52 'rear' 261M wheels right?
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      02-12-2016, 01:47 PM   #10
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Yes, the 261M rear wheels. Might be a little hard to find because you will have to get them used.

Try shooting dcaron9999 a pm and ask him about that setup. He ran 255's but more camber and 10mm spacer. He has lots of track time on that setup.
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      02-15-2016, 12:05 AM   #11
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Having trouble tracking down anything 18x8.5 with a 52ET. VMR has the V701 which is ET45. Could I run those with 10mm spacers all around with 245's?
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      02-17-2016, 01:24 PM   #12
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261M square 8.5s with 255/265 tires are pretty solid and keep the OEM look.
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      02-17-2016, 02:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuj View Post
Having trouble tracking down anything 18x8.5 with a 52ET. VMR has the V701 which is ET45. Could I run those with 10mm spacers all around with 245's?
Running ET45 on the front is ideal but that offset on the rear might cause rubbing issues under compression and possibly fender clearance. You will also have to take into consideration the R888 tire profile/shape. Often, R-comps have a square shoulder and tend to run wider than a regular tire given same dimensions.

When add spacers you take away offset. By running a ET45 with a 10mm spacer you effectively make it an ET35. The reasoning for running a 5-10mm spacer on the front while running a 261M ET52 wheel is to give proper clearance between wheel/tire to suspension but still allowing room for fender clearance. Your biggest issue is getting proper clearance to the suspension in order to ensure the tire doesn't contact. Outer clearance is a little more forgiving because you can add negative camber and roll the inner fender lip.

My suggestion for running a square by using the 261M was this.
1. It's a factory wheel and is proven strong
2. Square allows for easy rotation to keep tire wear even
3. It's been done before

Now, if you're not against running a staggered setup you could just buy the ARC-8's or EC7's in the 1-series fitment. Run as suggested by TireRack and get 235/40 front and 265/35 rear. You should have minimal issues with fit that a little more camber and a slight fender roll wouldn't cure. Personally if you go that route I'd opt for a 245/35 or 255/35 rear. It should provide a better balance front/rear grip making it a little more neutral at corner entry and exit. However, if you are making more power than stock a wider rear tire is better.

My random thoughts.
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      02-19-2016, 05:32 AM   #14
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No I'm making stock power levels. I think I have tracked down some 261's finally (all rear 8.5 width).

So:
261M x4 rear
Toyo 888's x4 in 245
Dinan camber plates up front
5mm spacers up front
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      02-22-2016, 04:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuj View Post
No I'm making stock power levels. I think I have tracked down some 261's finally (all rear 8.5 width).

So:
261M x4 rear
Toyo 888's x4 in 245
Dinan camber plates up front
5mm spacers up front
5mm spacers would NOT be enough for 261M 18x8.5 on the front. You will need around effective offset of ET40 to ET42 up front so, it would take 10mm or 12mm spacers. Alternatively you could get the Enkei 18x8.5" ET40 front wheels which don't need spacers, but then you can't rotate. The Toyo R888 isn't available in 245/35/18 profile. 245/40/18 is a really big tire for R888, so its going to be difficult to make it fit on the front even with maximum possible camber. Another possible fitment would be:

REAR
BMW 261M 18x8.5 ET52
R888 255/35/18

FRONT
Enkei RPF1 18x8.5 ET40
R888 235/40/18

You will need max camber on the rear. Front fenders will need a mild roll or otherwise they will roll themselves when you run the tires for the first time.
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      02-22-2016, 04:44 AM   #16
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Man, why are our cars so difficult? I never had these types of problems getting wheels and tires to fit on my NA Miata. That car had a proper diff as well...

So John_01 you seem to be saying the square setup is the wrong way to go as in it won't fit without a lot of work?

I don't mind having a shop roll the fenders and trim the wheel-wells, etc.

It really seems like everyone here is trying to discourage the idea of tracking the 135. I dunno.. maybe I'll go buy my 6th Miata instead.

So John_01, what setup would you recommend. Tires+wheels+spacers+camber? Do I need to go over to Hoosiers to get a 245/*35*/18 tires? And if so, how many days do you think I'd get out of the R7's? Maybe two or three? Tire rack was telling me the R7's wouldn't even last a whole track day. Not sure I believe that...
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Last edited by tuj; 02-22-2016 at 04:49 AM..
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      02-22-2016, 05:13 AM   #17
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It won't be straight forward to fit the R888 in 245/40/18 or 255/35/18 for the front. I run R888 245/40/17 on the front of my car and I needed to roll the front fender and it still hits the bumper tabs on full compression. I have -3.0 degrees front camber and 17" rims are 1 inch smaller in diameter.

Square setup isn't wrong at all, but it depends on how you want to setup the car. Having the extra rubber on the rear means the rear tires can take a bit more punishment before they overheat and it makes the handling more forgiving. If you have an LSD you are in a better position to setup the car for staggered tire sizes and make use of the additional rear rubber. Whatever you choose, the R888 are generally sensitive to pressure and temperature, so it will take some time to learn how to extract the best performance from them. So depending on your preference, you might like to get square setup. I just don't know what it will take to make it fit acceptably. Maybe post in this thread here and see if you get any more ideas. At least you will need a set of Ground Control camber plates to maximise the front camber.

As a way to get up and running with the fewest hassles I gave my suggestion in post #15 above. If you want to be able to rotate, then get 4x BMW 261's and some spacers. You can also run 235/40 F, 255/35 R tires on the BMW 261 rims since the offset works out effectively the same as the Enkei RPF1 once you add a 10mm or 12mm spacer. I don't like spacers personally, but other people use them.
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      05-27-2016, 01:44 PM   #18
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About the 261M suggestion, I have a square set of 264s that I'm planning on using for my track wheels.
Is there a reason that 261Ms were suggested over the 264?
I also have a staggered set of 261Ms that I'm using for my street wheels.
I could always start searching for couple of 264M rears if necessary, but only if there is an issue with using the 264s on the track.
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      05-28-2016, 08:14 AM   #19
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TexSquirrel No difference, the 264 and the 261 rears are both 8.5 width, ET52 wheels, so the setup is equivalent. I think people were recommending the 261's because they are older and therefore maybe more available.

BTW, I am running BFG R1's in 245/40/18 on coilovers with 15mm spacers up front and 1.9 degrees camber. I have about 5mm clearance to the strut.
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Last edited by tuj; 05-28-2016 at 08:49 AM..
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      05-28-2016, 08:47 AM   #20
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That's what I was hoping.
I recently picked up 2 used rear 264s for just $75.
They have some curb rash, but I can get them repaired cheaply.

I also just had some 'new to me' 261Ms powder coated gloss black and new Michelin PSS mounted.
These will be my street wheels.

I'll just run the 264s on the track and autocross.
I just need to figure out which square tire setup to run.
Stock suspension height and camber.
Fenders are not rolled.
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      05-28-2016, 09:16 AM   #21
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TexSquirrel You should be able to run the BFG R1S tire for autocross or the R1 for track. Should fit easily. I don't know that the R888 will fit as easily, nor is it as good of a tire. The Hoosiers are much wider than the '245' marking, so they may be trouble to make fit, at least that's what I remember... That leaves the Hankook's and the Kuhmos.

I did no fender rolling or bumper tab modifications or wheel well mods to get mine to fit.
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      06-02-2016, 06:49 AM   #22
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Just to show what can be fitted to 135i with standard suspension.


These are friends HSV factory wheels.

Front
245/35/19 Kumho KU39 on 19" x 8" ET48

Rear
275/35/19 Kumho KU39 on 19" x 9.5" ET56
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