If you have an LSD,

[asiflicious]

was it honestly worth the money? I've been searching and searching and it really seems like people are split on whether the mod is worth the high price for a non-track focused car. 50% of people say it's not while the other 50% say it's the single best mod they've made to their car. So if you've put in an LSD in your car could you please let us know;

What kind of LSD did you get? (Brand, helical or plate type, 1,1.5,2 way etc)

What kind of driving do you do? (Track, drifting, street, canyon carving, treating backroads like a free track at 3am etc)

What are your impressions of before and after? What issues did you have prior to the LSD that the LSD fixed? Were these improvements worth the high cost?

And finally, would you do this mod again or would you save your money if you could go back in time?

[swagon]

Everyone that has installed one says it's 100% worth every penny! No wonder proper RWD sports cars have got an LSD. (hope you're reading this, BMW)

[iminhell1]

I have an auto and I put a M Factory LSD in over Christmas. So I don't have much time with it yet. No track data. But I have, and am gaining more daily, Winter driving data; hours upon hours of driving on the lakes, playing and 'racing'.

I put the LSD in myself. Wasn't sure I could do it, never played with gears before. The hardest part was getting the races off the old carrier. Bearing splitter worked on one side, wouldn't touch the other. Heat/Cold didn't seem to work either. All the heat I put into the race bleed into the carrier right away, no growth and no movement. What ended up working was a thin chisel and light tapping around the whole collar. Once I got a little opening the splitter worked. I spent far too much time dicking around with this. If you don't want the frustration just buy new bearings, which is the recommended method anyways.
-Bearings: What I found out here is that if you lookup parts you'll find a roller bearing as the replacement. But the factory is a ball bearing. I don't know why the difference but my feeling is that they used ball for a good reason and that's what you should stick with ... and it happens to cost less.
The part number for the 'small diff', '188', 'auto differential' is - F-234976.06.

- Fluid: M Factory recommends OEM 75w90 or Torco SGO 75w90. I asked this after the fact because it didn't seem mine was acting the way I expected. I put Redline Shockproof Lightweight in the diff. It's what I was running in the open setup and I liked it. Unfortunately there is a component in the Redline fluid that doesn't allow the diff to work correctly. In good grip situations, dry pavement, the diff worked as expected and perfectly fine. But once I got into a low grip situation, snow under one tire, the diff would not transfer power. Both tires on slippery snow, I was just stuck. I was pretty disappointed in my purchase.
But I figured changing fluid might help, it had to right? So I sucked the Redline out and put factory BMW oil in. Night and day difference. With the BMW stuff the diff works as expected. One tire slip and I still move just fine. Both slip and I can still move. I need to find some deeper snow to see how much it takes to get stuck now; before it was at the bottom of the bumper and I was done for (ice as a base).


I'm very happy right now with my purchase. BUT, what I really bought it for was drag racing. If I don't see more consistent 60' times I'll update with how unreleased I am. The problem I had last year, on street tires, was varying track prep/temp and I could do a low 1.7 60' and the next run would be a 2.2. I just couldn't run similar times and it was getting really aggravating. My hope is that by fixing the mechanical side on my end that I can get reliable times.

[asiflicious]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

I have an auto and I put a M Factory LSD in over Christmas. So I don't have much time with it yet. No track data. But I have, and am gaining more daily, Winter driving data; hours upon hours of driving on the lakes, playing and 'racing'.

I put the LSD in myself. Wasn't sure I could do it, never played with gears before. The hardest part was getting the races off the old carrier. Bearing splitter worked on one side, wouldn't touch the other. Heat/Cold didn't seem to work either. All the heat I put into the race bleed into the carrier right away, no growth and no movement. What ended up working was a thin chisel and light tapping around the whole collar. Once I got a little opening the splitter worked. I spent far too much time dicking around with this. If you don't want the frustration just buy new bearings, which is the recommended method anyways.
-Bearings: What I found out here is that if you lookup parts you'll find a roller bearing as the replacement. But the factory is a ball bearing. I don't know why the difference but my feeling is that they used ball for a good reason and that's what you should stick with ... and it happens to cost less.
The part number for the 'small diff', '188', 'auto differential' is - F-234976.06.

- Fluid: M Factory recommends OEM 75w90 or Torco SGO 75w90. I asked this after the fact because it didn't seem mine was acting the way I expected. I put Redline Shockproof Lightweight in the diff. It's what I was running in the open setup and I liked it. Unfortunately there is a component in the Redline fluid that doesn't allow the diff to work correctly. In good grip situations, dry pavement, the diff worked as expected and perfectly fine. But once I got into a low grip situation, snow under one tire, the diff would not transfer power. Both tires on slippery snow, I was just stuck. I was pretty disappointed in my purchase.
But I figured changing fluid might help, it had to right? So I sucked the Redline out and put factory BMW oil in. Night and day difference. With the BMW stuff the diff works as expected. One tire slip and I still move just fine. Both slip and I can still move. I need to find some deeper snow to see how much it takes to get stuck now; before it was at the bottom of the bumper and I was done for (ice as a base).


I'm very happy right now with my purchase. BUT, what I really bought it for was drag racing. If I don't see more consistent 60' times I'll update with how unreleased I am. The problem I had last year, on street tires, was varying track prep/temp and I could do a low 1.7 60' and the next run would be a 2.2. I just couldn't run similar times and it was getting really aggravating. My hope is that by fixing the mechanical side on my end that I can get reliable times.

Please let us know your thoughts once you've had a chance to put the car through its paces. I too have an auto 135i and considering the MFactory helical diff so your impressions will be very helpful

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by asiflicious

Please let us know your thoughts once you've had a chance to put the car through its paces. I too have an auto 135i and considering the MFactory helical diff so your impressions will be very helpful

Will do.
But I will say that once you gain power it's almost a necessity, for safety's sake. I'm estimated to be north of 500whp. That much power on an open diff is just asking for an insurance claim.
There realistically is no downside to traction and braking improvements. No matter the cost.

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

Will do.
But I will say that once you gain power it's almost a necessity, for safety's sake. I'm estimated to be north of 500whp. That much power on an open diff is just asking for an insurance claim.
There realistically is no downside to traction and braking improvements. No matter the cost.

Even with a literally half that power I'm seeing I'd benefit from an LSD.

Shorter gears + some bolts ons make me hop like mad in 1st. I REALLY want a good diff for that (and some sideways action )

[asiflicious]

I've been reading and I've seen some posts that say that with the LSD the car is more prone to spinning and getting sideways even with TC on. I don't see why you would want that for a street car, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Have any of you experienced this?

[asiflicious]

I just want my car to feel like an M car

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by desertman123

Even with a literally half that power I'm seeing I'd benefit from an LSD.

Shorter gears + some bolts ons make me hop like mad in 1st. I REALLY want a good diff for that (and some sideways action )

Stiffer bushings in the subframe/diff will help.

Part of the reason you get the "hop" is the bushings load up, deflect, snap back, etc, as you try to accelerate.

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by asiflicious

I've been reading and I've seen some posts that say that with the LSD the car is more prone to spinning and getting sideways even with TC on. I don't see why you would want that for a street car, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Have any of you experienced this?

To an extent I guess. May depend on if they coded things out or what they altered on the electronics side. And in that regard there is quite a bit you can alter to fit your driving style/need/want.

In my case I'm still having fun and playing. So a little slide is what I'm after. It's a learning process of how the car reacts now. The thing that I've picked up on the most is that while it may go a bit sideways, it's completely controllable and throttle dependent. More throttle, more sideways. Steady throttle, steady slide. And when you apply more throttle gingerly you hold the angle and just go faster.
But if you want to not slide you don't have to. It's all momentum. Drive smooth and accelerate smooth and you'll find the added inside traction to really make corners fun and you can take them faster. Exit is where it really shines. There isn't anymore power, stall, power. It's just power and grip.

If you're on the fence, try to find a local with LSD and ask if you can drive it. The experience is what will sell it.

[asiflicious]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

To an extent I guess. May depend on if they coded things out or what they altered on the electronics side. And in that regard there is quite a bit you can alter to fit your driving style/need/want.

In my case I'm still having fun and playing. So a little slide is what I'm after. It's a learning process of how the car reacts now. The thing that I've picked up on the most is that while it may go a bit sideways, it's completely controllable and throttle dependent. More throttle, more sideways. Steady throttle, steady slide. And when you apply more throttle gingerly you hold the angle and just go faster.
But if you want to not slide you don't have to. It's all momentum. Drive smooth and accelerate smooth and you'll find the added inside traction to really make corners fun and you can take them faster. Exit is where it really shines. There isn't anymore power, stall, power. It's just power and grip.

If you're on the fence, try to find a local with LSD and ask if you can drive it. The experience is what will sell it.

Are you running a plate/clutch type or helical? And I wish I could but I don't know anyone here with an aftermarket LSD. In fact the only cars over driven with LSD were the E36 and E46 M3s but those were oem diffs and not aftermarket

[iminhell1]

Helical.

I'm sure there's someone. Find this guy, odds are he'd have one --> http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...postcount=5894
And if you do tell him to get ahold of me. I have questions.


Looking through the PNW section, ya it looks slow. Maybe setup a GTG. That's the best way you're going to find people, and it makes for great friendships.

[asiflicious]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

Helical.

I'm sure there's someone. Find this guy, odds are he'd have one --> http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...postcount=5894
And if you do tell him to get ahold of me. I have questions.


Looking through the PNW section, ya it looks slow. Maybe setup a GTG. That's the best way you're going to find people, and it makes for great friendships.

So the helical works well for drifting as well as grip? It rains nearly 9 months out of the year here so I need traction for daily driving and control for when I want to have a little sliding fun.

[iminhell1]

Seems to so far. Do keep in mind that rain has more grip than ice/snow ... and frickin' 215's. LOL Once my summer 265's go on I'm sure I won't slide near as much, not for lack of trying.

[K-Bag]

I put an Mfactory helical LSD.

I have done motorkhana with and without the LSD.

I have also done drifting (at a track for a day) with the LSD

The car became seconds faster for motorkhana, and I could actually participate in a drift session. So far so good. The car now badly exhibits plough understeer, where if you dont give enough gas to initiate a drift (for example to flick it around a cone) the rear wheels give traction, and push the car forward while the front tries desperately to turn. The result is a long, wide understeering arc. Worst thing to do here is more gas; all the arc does is get bigger, then you get snap oversteer when you lift off the throttle.

The rest of my suspension is stock bar the LSD and rear subframe bushes; further upgrades can eliminate this, but until then all I need to do is be aware of the condition, give a bit extra to flick the car and if I failed, dab the brake, slow it down and try again (if still required)

It also rains here for like 4 months of the year, sub tropical, I would still get the LSD. No more single wheel shenanigans when trying to turn corners

[lowbudgethero]

Originally Posted by asiflicious

I've been reading and I've seen some posts that say that with the LSD the car is more prone to spinning and getting sideways even with TC on. I don't see why you would want that for a street car, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Have any of you experienced this?

A bit, mostly from hard shifts or launches though, for dd it doesn't really affect the tc at all. I think it tricks the computer into thinking both tires are spinning at the same rate while the car is beginning to yaw. If you go around a corner and try to romp it it won't do anything in my car. If it does go sideways it's corrected immediately if you have TC full on.

I also have shorter gearing too

[asiflicious]

Originally Posted by K-Bag

I put an Mfactory helical LSD.

I have done motorkhana with and without the LSD.

I have also done drifting (at a track for a day) with the LSD

The car became seconds faster for motorkhana, and I could actually participate in a drift session. So far so good. The car now badly exhibits plough understeer, where if you dont give enough gas to initiate a drift (for example to flick it around a cone) the rear wheels give traction, and push the car forward while the front tries desperately to turn. The result is a long, wide understeering arc. Worst thing to do here is more gas; all the arc does is get bigger, then you get snap oversteer when you lift off the throttle.

The rest of my suspension is stock bar the LSD and rear subframe bushes; further upgrades can eliminate this, but until then all I need to do is be aware of the condition, give a bit extra to flick the car and if I failed, dab the brake, slow it down and try again (if still required)

It also rains here for like 4 months of the year, sub tropical, I would still get the LSD. No more single wheel shenanigans when trying to turn corners

So with some other suspension mods the understeer should mostly be remedied. How does the diff feel during everyday driving? Parking lots, noise, etc

[asiflicious]

Originally Posted by lowbudgethero

A bit, mostly from hard shifts or launches though, for dd it doesn't really affect the tc at all. I think it tricks the computer into thinking both tires are spinning at the same rate while the car is beginning to yaw. If you go around a corner and try to romp it it won't do anything in my car. If it does go sideways it's corrected immediately if you have TC full on.

I also have shorter gearing too

So I wont accidentally spin my car around when trying to make a quick left turn at an intersection or anything like that?

[lowbudgethero]

Originally Posted by asiflicious

So I wont accidentally spin my car around when trying to make a quick left turn at an intersection or anything like that?

Nope

If you're really hard on the throttle in 1st you'll feel the rear get a little looser than before TC will still interfere and will really cut power and adjust the wheels if you start to yaw too much without correcting with steering.

[asiflicious]

Originally Posted by lowbudgethero

Nope

If you're really hard on the throttle in 1st you'll feel the rear get a little looser than before TC will still interfere and will really cut power and adjust the wheels if you start to yaw too much without correcting with steering.

As long as the nannies are still intact and operational, I'm all for it. People that always leave the nannies off are just asking for trouble

[asiflicious]

If you've put in an LSD in your automatic 135i, did you buy just the differential or the entire pumpkin? I believe all auto (steptronic-NOT DCT) 135i's had bolted diffs so wouldn't you just need the diff itself and just swap it into your oem pumpkin?[IMG][/IMG]

[K-Bag]

You will be fine daily driving with the diff.

Mine clunks a bit when shifting gears, nothing out of the ordinary, nothing too loud and nothing louder than previous cars