Follow up call from salesman

[cracka]

Honestly, we're all enthusiasts, that's why we're here... and it's fun to speculate about price, performance, options, etc. I don't fault anyone for guessing.

But we won't know the price until it's released officially, and we won't know whether it's worth that price to us until we drive it. The former requirement will be satisfied in a month or so, the latter sometime in the subsequent months for those of us stuck stateside.

My feeling is... speculate away. And if you're sick of the speculation, skip these threads.

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by Thorsten111

In Germany the car costs me 42000 Euros. 1 Euro is about 1,42 Dollar. That are about 60000 Dollars!!
And i drive about 30000kms a year. But u know i am so crazy bout the car, i am going to buy it. I only live one time....Ok in Germany the are no alternates for the price and performance...

Does that price include VAT? (and TÜV?) We're talking about pre-tax price. Our out the door price including taxes (which are much lower than Germany) is higher than the number we are talking about. What is VAT on a car these days in Germany, 19%?

[gwballin]

Originally Posted by Road Runner

the whole “the same amount of money was spent on the development of the 1 series as the 3, and that BMW had a large investment in the car” is pretty far from the truth. For example, the 1 has been in Europe for a couple years now, and the engines for the North American 1’s are taken straight out of the 3 series. The front end of the vehicle is also quite clearly based on the previous gen 3 series.

What I’m trying to say is that the 1 takes a lot of its parts straight out of the BMW parts bin and there isn’t too much that’s new to it besides the size. I think there is even a quote somewhere from BMW that gives the percentage of parts that are taken straight from the 3 (and it’s a high percentage). To turn a hatch into a coupe and shoehorn a bigger engine under the bonnet doesn’t require a large investment.

Exactly.

[128er]

SALESMEN KNOW NOTHING!! I AM DISGUSTED WITH HIM FOR TRYING TO LIE TO BMW ENTHUSIAST!
If they spent the same on the 1 series as the 3, they shouldn't even had made it..we don't need 2 3 Series!

[djminkin]

Originally Posted by 128er

SALESMEN KNOW NOTHING!! I AM DISGUSTED WITH HIM FOR TRYING TO LIE TO BMW ENTHUSIAST!
If they spent the same on the 1 series as the 3, they shouldn't even had made it..we don't need 2 3 Series!

Its supposed to be a new class of BMW, not another 3 series. This is similar to the M coupe when it came out. It was a new class of M but priced consistenly with the E36 M3 at the time, even though it was smaller and only a two seater, but also built in smaller production numbers just like the 1 will be. Now we have a car that is comparable in size to the 3 coupe, carries the same engine and ammenities, and you expect it to be priced 8-10 grand cheaper? Not going to happen. By the way, I own 6 bimmers, I would consider myself an enthusiast as well.

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by Road Runner

Sorry djminkin, I’m not trying to flame at all but I’m also pretty skeptical of what they’re telling you. Beyond the fact that the pricing details they are telling you are pretty far off the mark from what the automotive press has been stating, as well as what BMW Managers themselves have stated, the whole “[/size]the same amount of money was spent on the development of the 1 series as the 3, and that BMW had a large investment in the car” is pretty far from the truth. For example, the 1 has been in Europe for a couple years now, and the engines for the North American 1’s are taken straight out of the 3 series. The front end of the vehicle is also quite clearly based on the previous gen 3 series.

What I’m trying to say is that the 1 takes a lot of its parts straight out of the BMW parts bin and there isn’t too much that’s new to it besides the size. I think there is even a quote somewhere from BMW that gives the percentage of parts that are taken straight from the 3 (and it’s a high percentage). To turn a hatch into a coupe and shoehorn a bigger engine under the bonnet doesn’t require a large investment.

The moral of the story is, regardless of who you spoke to, there are some pretty serious inconsistencies in what they’ve been stating. I think that’s why a lot of people on this forum are so up in arms.

And I agree, we should just wait the month or so for actual pricing to come out.

ya the whole thing about development. the 1er hatches have been out for quite awhile and when it comes down to basic engineering of the platform it was all done there. not buying it. lets all wait for something official.

[Bourne]

If BMWNA prices the 135i @ $37K + the target market will be greatly reduced and that would account for a smaller production run. Of course the enthusiastic members on this site will dry up too. Shame all the way around.

[bradford]

Originally Posted by djminkin

Now we have a car that is comparable in size to the 3 coupe, carries the same engine and ammenities, and you expect it to be priced 8-10 grand cheaper? Not going to happen.

How is it comparable in size considering it is a full 8 inches shorter?

[larry lawless]

Originally Posted by djminkin

Its supposed to be a new class of BMW, not another 3 series. This is similar to the M coupe when it came out. It was a new class of M but priced consistenly with the E36 M3 at the time, even though it was smaller and only a two seater, but also built in smaller production numbers just like the 1 will be. Now we have a car that is comparable in size to the 3 coupe, carries the same engine and ammenities, and you expect it to be priced 8-10 grand cheaper? Not going to happen.

Um sorry to say this but its probably GOING TO HAPPEN. Lets not forget where this car is coming from. The 1 series roots come from the legendary 2002 not the 3 series. The 2002 was and still is an icon. The 1 series' purpose is to fill the shoes once filled by the 2002 and in its day 40 years ago it was the cheapest bimmer by far. But gave the performance similar or greater than bimmers that where more than double its price. That is the purpose of the 135, PERFORMANCE in every aspect of the word. The key to the 2002's success was (1) the performance and (2) the low price badge. And guess what in 2008 that same formula is going to be applied.

And the M coupe has nothing to do with how this car is going to be priced or the z4 for that matter, because they are stylish luxury 2 seaters with attitude which are supposed to priced higher. And lets not forget the bimmer exces have already stated that in the US the 1 series will start under 30k(128i). Remember bimmer still has nightmares from the failed 318ti and they don't want to do the same again, cause the US market is huge and they know the price is key.

:respekt:
(Just wait and see where its priced)

[atr_hugo]

It pays to keep in mind who we think BMW is trying to attract into the BMW fold with this car, younger American buyers that grew up thoroughly saturated with Japanese products. Yes some are here because of a dedication to the BMW brand, and some are here because the 335 is too big and those folks will be less price sensitive - but BMW wants to skim some lifetime customers from the Japanese brands and those buyers will be very price sensitive.

And then there are some of us old farts who are just along for the ride, treating the 135 as strictly a value proposition. As I've stated before, if the 135 delivers 85-95% of a Cayman S driving experience at 60-65% of the price, I'd be foolish to pass it up.

[Tijuana]

Isn't it BMW's goal to become the highest volume luxury maker? They have a long way to go to get there and small production run cars aren't going to get there. I thought this was supposed to be a fairly high volume car?

[djminkin]

Originally Posted by larry lawless

Um sorry to say this but its probably GOING TO HAPPEN. Lets not forget where this car is coming from. The 1 series roots come from the legendary 2002 not the 3 series. The 2002 was and still is an icon. The 1 series' purpose is to fill the shoes once filled by the 2002 and in its day 40 years ago it was the cheapest bimmer by far. But gave the performance similar or greater than bimmers that where more than double its price. That is the purpose of the 135, PERFORMANCE in every aspect of the word. The key to the 2002's success was (1) the performance and (2) the low price badge. And guess what in 2008 that same formula is going to be applied.

And the M coupe has nothing to do with how this car is going to be priced or the z4 for that matter, because they are stylish luxury 2 seaters with attitude which are supposed to priced higher. And lets not forget the bimmer exces have already stated that in the US the 1 series will start under 30k(128i). Remember bimmer still has nightmares from the failed 318ti and they don't want to do the same again, cause the US market is huge and they know the price is key.

:respekt:
(Just wait and see where its priced)

Yes I read the press releases too, but thats simply a marketing campaign to promote the car. The point Im trying to make using the M coupe as an example is that if they put the same technology and ammenities in the car, how can they price it so much cheaper? Its not possible. I also use the M coupe as an example, because it was produced in smaller numbers and is geared towards a specific niche of performance drivers. That is how this car will wind up here in the states. Its going to be priced slightly under the coupe and be released in smaller production numbers. Its roots definitely DONT come from the 2002, it looks nothing like the 2002, nor is it comparable in size. I would say its roots come more from the E46 3 series.
Trust me I want it be priced at 32K too, but its not realistic and you people are going to be extremely disappointed if you believe thats where it will base out at.

[gbent]

Comparing the 135i to any of the "M cars" is just plain stupid. All this "M Sport package" stuff is mostly just marketing hype.

The real M cars are in a whole different league than the regular production cars. Basically what you're getting on the 135i is some sporty looking plastic body parts, & a lightly tuned suspension. Even the wildly anticipated brake package is not that big of a deal. BMW's have always had good brakes. They are just trying to cash in on the current fad of thinking that lots of little caliper pistons are way better than a few larger ones.

So anyone who's foolish enough to think they are getting a true M car in the 135i is going to be disappointed IMHO.

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by djminkin

Trust me I want it be priced at 32K too, but its not realistic and you people are going to be extremely disappointed if you believe thats where it will base out at.

And trust me when I say that BMW is going to be extremely disappointed (again) if that ends up being the case. *News flash*...they do not have this market segment on lock.

You are correct about one thing, however. The 1-series is in no way a modern incarnation of the 2002. It's a *slightly* downsized and *moderately* refreshed E46, which is yet another reason why it shouldn't carry a premium price tag. If the 135i were truly a ground-up modern reinvention of the 2002 (with some really trick engineering and materials to keep the weight down) then maybe a higher base price would be justified and realistic. As it stands now it cannot be justified, although rubes and plants keep trying to convince us otherwise...

[1ster]

Originally Posted by theslik1

You are correct about one thing, however. The 1-series is in no way a modern incarnation of the 2002.

Just like the Mini is not really a modern incarnation of the old Mini. Weight and complexity prevent almost all modern cars from possessing the same simplicity and effortlessness of their forebears. Maybe the Elise is an exception, and the Miata still does a pretty good job of sticking to its original mission statement, but that's about it.

[djminkin]

Originally Posted by 1ster

Just like the Mini is not really a modern incarnation of the old Mini. Weight and complexity prevent almost all modern cars from possessing the same simplicity and effortlessness of their forebears. Maybe the Elise is an exception, and the Miata still does a pretty good job of sticking to its original mission statement, but that's about it.

At least the Mini looks somewhat the same. An updated retro copy of the 2002 would be pretty cool, along the same lines as the mustang and soon to be camaro, but I cant imagine how they could make that flying brick design aerodynamic.

[STI-135]

I am one of those saturated by Japanese products but lets make one thing clear, the Japanese build bullet proof reliable cars(IMO). I have had nothing but glowing things to say about Toyota, Acura and currently Subaru.
This 1 Series better be the cat's ass in every way shape and form. I have lofty expectations for a car I will be spending close to $40k on.
Bottomline:
At the end of the day whatever this cars "intention" it has a certain rep to uphold because afterall it is a BMW.

[kurichan]

Originally Posted by larry lawless

The 1 series roots come from the legendary 2002 not the 3 series.

Oh no! Another fanboi marketing victim...

Last time I checked, the 2002 has been out of production for 20 years. Did they keep the roots alive so they could graft the 1 series concept to it?

Don't believe the hype.

The 1er series is BMW's entry model car that is designed to fill a market segment, raise revenues, and introduce younger, less wealthy people to the marque in hope of catching them earlier in their life upgrading them later.

The comparison to the 2002 only came up when the coupe marketing began because it's a convenient marketing tool.

[kurichan]

I sense a turn of tide. Some of the blind romance about this car is wearing off. It's becoming clear that if BMW overprices this car, they're in for a surprise - FAILURE.

[TESLAASTRO]

Originally Posted by kurichan

I sense a turn of tide. Some of the blind romance about this car is wearing off. It's becoming clear that if BMW overprices this car, they're in for a surprise - FAILURE.

I agree......I fell in love with this car based on the performance/value equation.....anything over 40k though for premium and auto equipped and I'll be buying a G37 loaded for 36k.....

[gbent]

Originally Posted by kurichan

Oh no! Another fanboi marketing victim...

Last time I checked, the 2002 has been out of production for 20 years. Did they keep the roots alive so they could graft the 1 series concept to it?

Don't believe the hype.

The 1er series is BMW's entry model car that is designed to fill a market segment, raise revenues, and introduce younger, less wealthy people to the marque in hope of catching them earlier in their life upgrading them later.

The comparison to the 2002 only came up when the coupe marketing began because it's a convenient marketing tool.

Right on!

[larry lawless]

Originally Posted by djminkin

Yes I read the press releases too, but thats simply a marketing campaign to promote the car. The point Im trying to make using the M coupe as an example is that if they put the same technology and ammenities in the car, how can they price it so much cheaper? Its not possible. I also use the M coupe as an example, because it was produced in smaller numbers and is geared towards a specific niche of performance drivers. That is how this car will wind up here in the states. Its going to be priced slightly under the coupe and be released in smaller production numbers. Its roots definitely DONT come from the 2002, it looks nothing like the 2002, nor is it comparable in size. I would say its roots come more from the E46 3 series.
Trust me I want it be priced at 32K too, but its not realistic and you people are going to be extremely disappointed if you believe thats where it will base out at.

Dude i don't know where your getting this from but this car is the modern day version of the 2002. It dosen't have to look like it or be sized around the 2002 to get its roots from it. Look at the e30 m3 compared to the e92 m3 they look nothing alike and their sizes are no where near the same. But the new m3 gets its roots directly from the e30 m3 its just the modern day equivalent. And another thing is, this car isn't going to be a limited production car. Lets not forget that bimmer has alot of other spin off versions of the 1 series they want to introduce like the x1, z1 or z2, and theirs even been talk about a 1 series sedan, and the M1. So if they want to bring all these cars on the market like they hope they can this will be a mass produced car. Plus the M coupe is an M car which is made in smaller production numbers like the M1 will be when they make it, the 135 is not an M car. And if you don't think their going to make the M1 you need to talk to SCOTT. Lastly if you want to compare this car to a previous bimmer it wouldn't be the e46 3 series it would be the e36 3 series since they have the closest all around dimensions.
:roundel::roundel::roundel:
(Just wait for the pricing to be released)