suspension advice (cross + M3 bits)

[rodi]

well, i've got the power, now i need the handling (though, it should have been the other way around).

i've been looking into the following:

Cross comp coilover kit (inspired by Call and another's recent post)
all the M3 suspension bits
(and eventually non-RFTs and the 19" 313 wheels)


the M3 suspension parts (as listed by HP's website):

front control arm kit
front lower wishbone kit
front tension rod kit
rear guide rod kit
rear upper link kit
rear lower camber link conversion kit
front/rear anti-roll bar (the M3 ones? another better pair?)


so here's where i look for advice:

-would installing all of these with the Cross coilovers be a bad idea? compatibility issues?
-would having these upgrades with the stock RFTs be horrible? even assuming that the RFTs will be replaced eventually with non-RFTs.
-should the M3 bushings come last and only when the RFTs have been replaced?
-the lower camber link conversion kit, will it jive well with the cross coilover setup? spring rate concerns?
-if i do not do these all at once, is there a particular order in stages that would work well?
-how would this all compare to the Dinan suspension (at any stage)?
-all this adds up to about $5k (cross $2500 and the OEM M3 parts $2500). is there a better setup for cheaper?


about my driving: streets (downtown urban + lovely potholes to be dodged), mountain roads.
i do plan to track it at some point, but never have before. it won't be a track car, but i'd like to be able to. basically, 90% street-driven.


hopefully someone reads this that likes giving advice and configuring others' suspension upgrades. :]

thanks in advance to you, kind sir.

[Dangerlucas]

Sounds like it would be a good set up, but there are a couple of things that you wouldn't be able to do. The first being in the rear, the m3 rear lower camber link conversion kit. This kit changes up the way the struts mount up, so the coss ones wouldn't work.

The second thing I'd like to point out is that the front lower wishbone kit includes the front control arm kit and front tension rod kit (I'm assuming this is through HP Autowerks).

Also if you are going to do all of this you probably want to add the m3 rear subframe bushings. From what I've read these will allow you to run a higher spring rate in the rear (please correct me if I'm wrong about this or anything in my post).

That said if you are going to be getting this stuff through HP I would highly recommend talking to Harold and having him set you up with one of there strut and spring combos that they designed to work very well with the m3 suspension components. Harold is a great guy to work with and if I were going to do it again I would probably not get the KW v3's and just get a complete package from HP.

[rodi]

thanks for the reply!
yeah, i forgot the bushings in the list even though i mentioned them in the questions. i was just concerned about whether they'd be really harsh with the RFTs still mounted.

if one really wanted the cross coilovers, would giving up the option for the rear lower camber link conversion kit be a good trade-off or is the conversion that much more beneficial?

[Eyeman]

From what I've read/understand, the runflats combined with what you are planning would probably be too harsh to enjoy riding around in Atlanta, but then again you do like to go fast. Also if you go to 19 inch wheels and compensate with lower profile tires, that too will be similarly harsh.

I already have 19 inch wheels and have ditched the runflats and have KW's and a strut bar coming. I doubt I'll go much further than that, but who knows, maybe I'll change my mind if I try Call's car someday? My car will probably be done with the above in a few weeks if you want to compare it to something more like Call's before to help you make up your mind. Btw, another factor for me is I have an old Porsche that I can drive when I want more agressive handling but way less hp.

[philaf_666]

Originally Posted by Dangerlucas

Sounds like it would be a good set up, but there are a couple of things that you wouldn't be able to do. The first being in the rear, the m3 rear lower camber link conversion kit. This kit changes up the way the struts mount up, so the coss ones wouldn't work.

The second thing I'd like to point out is that the front lower wishbone kit includes the front control arm kit and front tension rod kit (I'm assuming this is through HP Autowerks).

Also if you are going to do all of this you probably want to add the m3 rear subframe bushings. From what I've read these will allow you to run a higher spring rate in the rear (please correct me if I'm wrong about this or anything in my post).

That said if you are going to be getting this stuff through HP I would highly recommend talking to Harold and having him set you up with one of there strut and spring combos that they designed to work very well with the m3 suspension components. Harold is a great guy to work with and if I were going to do it again I would probably not get the KW v3's and just get a complete package from HP.

+1 - Talk to Harold, he knows his stuff.

As far as I'm concern, I have the KW v2 and feel it's not stiff enough, even for street. But that's a matter of taste I guess. The Cross coilovers have higher spring rates which is probably good (harsher but more solid feel) + camber setting which is also good, especially for track days.

The front tension rods with RFT will be a little less comfy because it's made for the m3 that comes with non RFT. But I ran on RFT for couple of week and it was not that bad, for me that is. Same goes for the rear subframe bushing.

I'm pretty sure you'll be more than happy with this setup, especially if you're going from stock to this, it's going to feel like a complete different car, 100% guaranteed.

I'm not sure is better combo, but again, talk to Harold, that's your best bet!

[1013mm]

I wouldnt do them all at the same time, try out the m3 bits first then go get the suspension.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by rodi

well, i've got the power, now i need the handling (though, it should have been the other way around).

i've been looking into the following:

Cross comp coilover kit (inspired by Call and another's recent post)
all the M3 suspension bits
(and eventually non-RFTs and the 19" 313 wheels)


the M3 suspension parts (as listed by HP's website):

front control arm kit
front lower wishbone kit
front tension rod kit
rear guide rod kit
rear upper link kit
rear lower camber link conversion kit
front/rear anti-roll bar (the M3 ones? another better pair?)


so here's where i look for advice:

-would installing all of these with the Cross coilovers be a bad idea? compatibility issues?
-would having these upgrades with the stock RFTs be horrible? even assuming that the RFTs will be replaced eventually with non-RFTs.
-should the M3 bushings come last and only when the RFTs have been replaced?
-the lower camber link conversion kit, will it jive well with the cross coilover setup? spring rate concerns?
-if i do not do these all at once, is there a particular order in stages that would work well?
-how would this all compare to the Dinan suspension (at any stage)?
-all this adds up to about $5k (cross $2500 and the OEM M3 parts $2500). is there a better setup for cheaper?


about my driving: streets (downtown urban + lovely potholes to be dodged), mountain roads.
i do plan to track it at some point, but never have before. it won't be a track car, but i'd like to be able to. basically, 90% street-driven.


hopefully someone reads this that likes giving advice and configuring others' suspension upgrades. :]

thanks in advance to you, kind sir.

Cross is yet another monotube design so it going to be a lot harsher than twin tube designs unless you’re planning for so series stiff springs anyways. Cross specify the worst spring on the market….they are pure crap for quality. You better off with TC Kline.

I would generally stay away for any Monotube design given your requirements.

Spring rates….subjective. Most have this wrong. The one series has tendency to understeer far morethan 3 series due its wider rear track. I would seriously be cosidering what roll bars first. If pick the wrong ones then its a down hill slide and then the rest a lot money for very little gain.

Orb

[m3bs]

I'd be inclined to start with the springs/shocks or coilovers first. They are going to make the most dramatic change in the overall handling of the car.

Definitely do a test drive if possible. If you want to swing over this way you can try mine out.

[rodi]

Originally Posted by Orb

Cross is yet another monotube design so it going to be a lot harsher than twin tube designs unless you’re planning for so series stiff springs anyways. Cross specify the worst spring on the market….they are pure crap for quality. You better off with TC Kline.

I would generally stay away for any Monotube design given your requirements.

Spring rates….subjective. Most have this wrong. The one series has tendency to understeer far morethan 3 series due its wider rear track. I would seriously be cosidering what roll bars first. If pick the wrong ones then its a down hill slide and then the rest a lot money for very little gain.

Orb

i'm a little confused by your recommendations because of your omitting a few words here and there... are you recommending TC Kline coilovers instead of the Cross coilovers? TC Kline springs for the Cross coilovers?



Oy.


m3bs - drove Call's car on Saturday. but i really need to be able to drive where i usually drive.