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05-21-2009, 05:35 PM | #1 |
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DTC-DSC Switch
Two part question --
Background -- I am still confused by the buttons and the modes. At a recent VIR event, I discussed the use of the modes with another 135 driver/instructor. I have spent quite a bit of time on the skid pad testing the different modes and have driven several tracks experimenting with the modes. I have difficulty determining the difference between the all on mode and the next button press mode. Both modes kill yaw and kill power until the yaw is controlled. Both those modes put a lot of heat into the outside front tire because they kill rotation. The car is very easy to drive quickly in the button press and hold for 4 second mode and the car looses a lot of the rear brake induced understeer. -- question 1-- What does the intermediate position do? I have read the book. I have compared my findings with another instructor and have not determined what the difference is. -- question 2 -- If this is purely electronic, could the intermediate mode be reprogrammed to provide some level of protection between the two modes? Not by me, of course, but by a company with knowledge, like Dinan.
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Alan
08 135I (AW/Coral Red - delivered 3/15/08 -- 13 Audi S4, 83 SC (trackster), 90 C2 (Sally's Carrera), 04 Avalanche Blingmobile |
05-21-2009, 05:54 PM | #2 |
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DTC (the intermediate mode you speak off) allows more wheel spin and yaw before cutting in to save you/kill your driving line. I'd say it's pretty decent for daily driving, but I agree that I would like it to give you a bit more.
I've had the luck of experiencing a ferrari f430, and the "race" traction/stability control mode is what I wish our DTC would be like. As stated by Jeremy Clarkson, "Making (you) look like a hero without letting (you) crash." Back to your question, I have no clue if a tuning company will. I'm sure they could as it is based inside the ECU like everything else. I'd get in contact with Dinan, Burger Motorsports, and Vishnu Performance if I was you.
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05-21-2009, 06:34 PM | #3 |
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Forthewin - I absolutely agree with what you are saying. I would like a track mode for the novice driver. Our party line is that we do not wish our instructors to have their students turn off their safety net. For liability reasons we would never suggest it. Both modes are more intrusive then other cars I have driven on the track. Certainly the Porsche PSM system allows more driver input without overreacting. Even the Audi allows more. Both cars stability management systems assert themselves less intrusively. Our car will not turn with the systems engaged and exhibits dreadful understeer. With everything off, even with the staggered tires, our car is wonderfully balanced, turn the system on and our car will cook the front tires.
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Alan
08 135I (AW/Coral Red - delivered 3/15/08 -- 13 Audi S4, 83 SC (trackster), 90 C2 (Sally's Carrera), 04 Avalanche Blingmobile |
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05-21-2009, 11:14 PM | #4 | |
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Quote:
With all on, I could not spin the wheels and couldn't slide without ABS getting in the way. With the intermediate mode, I could slide and maybe spin the wheels a little more. From what I understand, the intermediate mode disables the stability control, but not the traction control. |
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05-22-2009, 03:54 AM | #5 |
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You have three modes.
Full DSC (default) - the computer will apply brakes at any/all 4 wheels, and regulate the engine fuel (eg shut off the engine) to do what it can to keep the car stable. It is very sensitive to wheel slippage. Reduced DSC - or DTC (by pressing the button) - this mode reduces the control by recognizing that the car is in slippery driving conditions. The computer allows for some wheel slippage. TIM YOYO (Press the button for 5 seconds). Only the E-Diff is on, which will apply the brake on the inside (slipping) wheel. |
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05-22-2009, 05:11 PM | #6 |
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What I wish for is a position similar to mercedes' AMG department's joke of an "ESP OFF" mode. In this mode, you can spin the tires at will and get the tail rather far out, but as soon as the system realizes you are beyond recovery it straightens you out. It also will let a slide go out one way, but cut in if you start to fishtail.
Why doesn't BMW make DTC less intrusive? Because there are still huge amounts of customers who buy these cars (obviously not many on this forum, a.k.a. non-enthusiasts) that don't know how to handle their cars at the limit. DTC is supposedly for helping in difficult conditions (snow, ice, getting stuck, etc), but then again that's what Nissan says about their GT-R Launch Control. DTC actually is meant to let the inexperienced driver get a little thrill out of pushing his car without ending up dead. End of story. I still will use it for daily driving, but I dream of one more mode between DTC and TIM YOYO mode.
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Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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