BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-21-2009, 05:35 PM   #1
white911
First Lieutenant
white911's Avatar
16
Rep
355
Posts

Drives: 135I - white/coral red - sport
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California, MD

iTrader: (0)

DTC-DSC Switch

Two part question --

Background -- I am still confused by the buttons and the modes. At a recent VIR event, I discussed the use of the modes with another 135 driver/instructor. I have spent quite a bit of time on the skid pad testing the different modes and have driven several tracks experimenting with the modes. I have difficulty determining the difference between the all on mode and the next button press mode. Both modes kill yaw and kill power until the yaw is controlled. Both those modes put a lot of heat into the outside front tire because they kill rotation. The car is very easy to drive quickly in the button press and hold for 4 second mode and the car looses a lot of the rear brake induced understeer.

-- question 1-- What does the intermediate position do? I have read the book. I have compared my findings with another instructor and have not determined what the difference is.

-- question 2 -- If this is purely electronic, could the intermediate mode be reprogrammed to provide some level of protection between the two modes? Not by me, of course, but by a company with knowledge, like Dinan.
__________________
Alan
08 135I (AW/Coral Red - delivered 3/15/08 --
13 Audi S4, 83 SC (trackster), 90 C2 (Sally's Carrera), 04 Avalanche Blingmobile

Appreciate 0
      05-21-2009, 05:54 PM   #2
135forthewin
Lieutenant
United_States
48
Rep
546
Posts

Drives: sideways
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: U.S.

iTrader: (0)

DTC (the intermediate mode you speak off) allows more wheel spin and yaw before cutting in to save you/kill your driving line. I'd say it's pretty decent for daily driving, but I agree that I would like it to give you a bit more.
I've had the luck of experiencing a ferrari f430, and the "race" traction/stability control mode is what I wish our DTC would be like. As stated by Jeremy Clarkson, "Making (you) look like a hero without letting (you) crash."

Back to your question, I have no clue if a tuning company will. I'm sure they could as it is based inside the ECU like everything else. I'd get in contact with Dinan, Burger Motorsports, and Vishnu Performance if I was you.
__________________
Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2009, 06:34 PM   #3
white911
First Lieutenant
white911's Avatar
16
Rep
355
Posts

Drives: 135I - white/coral red - sport
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California, MD

iTrader: (0)

Forthewin - I absolutely agree with what you are saying. I would like a track mode for the novice driver. Our party line is that we do not wish our instructors to have their students turn off their safety net. For liability reasons we would never suggest it. Both modes are more intrusive then other cars I have driven on the track. Certainly the Porsche PSM system allows more driver input without overreacting. Even the Audi allows more. Both cars stability management systems assert themselves less intrusively. Our car will not turn with the systems engaged and exhibits dreadful understeer. With everything off, even with the staggered tires, our car is wonderfully balanced, turn the system on and our car will cook the front tires.
__________________
Alan
08 135I (AW/Coral Red - delivered 3/15/08 --
13 Audi S4, 83 SC (trackster), 90 C2 (Sally's Carrera), 04 Avalanche Blingmobile

Appreciate 0
      05-21-2009, 11:14 PM   #4
philaf_666
Philaf_666
philaf_666's Avatar
13
Rep
163
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Nov 2008

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by white911 View Post
-- question 1-- What does the intermediate position do? I have read the book. I have compared my findings with another instructor and have not determined what the difference is.
I had the chance (if I can say so) to try it in snow for all winter and there is definitely a big difference between both modes.

With all on, I could not spin the wheels and couldn't slide without ABS getting in the way.

With the intermediate mode, I could slide and maybe spin the wheels a little more.

From what I understand, the intermediate mode disables the stability control, but not the traction control.
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2009, 03:54 AM   #5
Lester
Brigadier General
295
Rep
3,350
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Oct 2007

iTrader: (0)

You have three modes.

Full DSC (default) - the computer will apply brakes at any/all 4 wheels, and regulate the engine fuel (eg shut off the engine) to do what it can to keep the car stable. It is very sensitive to wheel slippage.

Reduced DSC - or DTC (by pressing the button) - this mode reduces the control by recognizing that the car is in slippery driving conditions. The computer allows for some wheel slippage.

TIM YOYO (Press the button for 5 seconds). Only the E-Diff is on, which will apply the brake on the inside (slipping) wheel.
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2009, 05:11 PM   #6
135forthewin
Lieutenant
United_States
48
Rep
546
Posts

Drives: sideways
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: U.S.

iTrader: (0)

What I wish for is a position similar to mercedes' AMG department's joke of an "ESP OFF" mode. In this mode, you can spin the tires at will and get the tail rather far out, but as soon as the system realizes you are beyond recovery it straightens you out. It also will let a slide go out one way, but cut in if you start to fishtail.
Why doesn't BMW make DTC less intrusive? Because there are still huge amounts of customers who buy these cars (obviously not many on this forum, a.k.a. non-enthusiasts) that don't know how to handle their cars at the limit. DTC is supposedly for helping in difficult conditions (snow, ice, getting stuck, etc), but then again that's what Nissan says about their GT-R Launch Control. DTC actually is meant to let the inexperienced driver get a little thrill out of pushing his car without ending up dead. End of story. I still will use it for daily driving, but I dream of one more mode between DTC and TIM YOYO mode.
__________________
Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST