JB vs ProCede - Fuel Economy

[BMWRX]

I know the title is a bit of a contradiction, but wanted to ask what real world improvements or disadvantages were encountered when cars were upgraded using the JB or ProCede? The systems will improve economy, but that doesn't exactly equate to real world results, as the better performance from the car could mean a heavier right foot.

I currently run around 10.5L/100km with the car at stock, and want to get a grasp on how much more at the bowser it may end up costing me if I do a bit of tweaking. Actual L/100km figures would be greatly appreciated.

[BBK]

I didn't really notice much change. But I will say I have a heavier right foot now, so in actual fact economy may have reduced?

[Zuzu]

I have been running Map7 on the JB3 for the past 6 months and my car has sat constantly on 11.8 ltres/100km.

[BMWRX]

Thanks Zuzu. What was your fuel consumption prior to installing the JB3. Also, can you please PM me where you got it from and how much (if you don't mind).

[Zuzu]

Originally Posted by BMWRX

Thanks Zuzu. What was your fuel consumption prior to installing the JB3. Also, can you please PM me where you got it from and how much (if you don't mind).

Mate cant recall exactly as I have had the JB for about 18mths.. But it did drop about 1ltr/100 km roughly..

As far as cost I purchased when the Ozzie $$ was shitsky, so it was just under $1K then..

Purchased direct from Terry at www.burgertuning.com

[BMWRX]

Originally Posted by Zuzu

Mate cant recall exactly as I have had the JB for about 18mths.. But it did drop about 1ltr/100 km roughly..

As far as cost I purchased when the Ozzie $$ was shitsky, so it was just under $1K then..

Purchased direct from Terry at www.burgertuning.com

Dropped? As in better fuel economy?

Are there any local agents for it? How would you go with warranty on the unit having it purchased from the US?

[WOPALX]

I cannot say I've ever worried about economy, but mine sits around 11 with a heavy foot.

Procede has recently added a fuel miser / cruise map that is engaged when you use the cruise control, it also has a local agent in Melbourne + Adrian from Vishnu lives in Sydney.

[BMWRX]

I have been leaning towards the JB3 purely based on price. However, having agents based in Australia is a big advantage in going for the Procede. Plus, having a map for saving fuel with the cruise control on makes good sense too.

Hmm, why must the decision be so darn hard???

[BBK]

I don't know of anyone ever having much problems with the JB3, installing or afterwards. So having support locally is really a moot point? I have heard Terry is extremely helpful if you do have any dramas anyway. If you are after a simple tune, go with the JB3.

If you want something more custom, then maybe the Procede is for you.

I bought the JB3 and the BT tool for about $650AUS shipped...

My fuel usage right now is 9.8L/100km... never been above 10.2




EDIT: Just another thing to note, the Procede has 'local' support, but that is Sydney/Melbourne. It's not like they will fly up to Bris to help you. It's still a phone call/email, same as if the support was in Perth, NZ, China or Norway :-)

[Zuzu]

Originally Posted by BBK

I don't know of anyone ever having much problems with the JB3, installing or afterwards. So having support locally is really a moot point? I have heard Terry is extremely helpful if you do have any dramas anyway. If you are after a simple tune, go with the JB3.

If you want something more custom, then maybe the Procede is for you.

I bought the JB3 and the BT tool for about $650AUS shipped...

My fuel usage right now is 9.8L/100km... never been above 10.2

Agree with you there..

I have emailed Terry several times with questions regarding upgrades and installs and he has always replied within 24hrs.

Also have never had any probs with the JB3 since original purchase and subsequent upgrades.

I also have the BT tool and it is an absolute must if you are considering running the higher maps. Note also with the BT tool, it can take up to 3 different VINS.. So either share the cost with other JB purchasers or use on your next 2 vehicles.

BBK.. you must do some HWY driving or are easy on the gas.. I have never had an average under 11.4lt/100km.

[BMWRX]

Great advice, thanks guys.

You're right about Terry. He has responded to my emails either immediately or within half a day (depending on the time in the US). But to be fair, so has Adrian at Vishnu.

[CeeJay]

I've ran with a JB3 for over 23,000km's now.
Before it was installed I averaged 11.4l/100km.
After installation and running on map 3, it went to 11.7.
Just recently ,in the last month, I've run map5 and it went to 11.8.
Also had 2 cels under hard acceleration on map 5 ,but could be due to fuel pump dying as well. Apart from that no issues at all.
Got the cable and tune for just under 1k shipped from memory.
Hope the above helps.

[adrian@vishnu]

Hi Guys,

I am not going to get into the tuner war here as anything I say is biased towards Procede since I am involved with this product.

I just wanted to say that quoting fuel economy numbers here really has no value. The way the car is driven has far more effect then the tune on fuel economy. And that being said, the tune allows for the car to be driven harder meaning more fuel... even if it is using less fuel per kW produced. What I am trying to say is that you can only really compare the effect of a tune on economy if the car is driven in the same way before and after the tune was fitted, and that is rarely the case. For most people it takes some time after fitting a tune to get back to driving it normally simply because they enjoy the power they have gained from the tune. Even when they are driving it normally, if the driver is a more aggressive driver, the tune will use more fuel (more boost provided by tune means more fuel), and if they are an economical driver, they may use less fuel.

What I can say is that in the Procede we do tune for economy in cruise, and we do have the most capability of actually tuning the aspects of the tune that effects economy out of any tune. Economy during cruising (no boost) comes down to fuel mixtures and timing. Most of the competition can only adjust one of those two parameters. Procede does actively add ignition advance in cruise and it is proven in our testing in as controlled conditions as we could replicate to improve economy by 2-3mpg. Unfortuantely this will only have a sizable impact on your fuel bill if you spend alot of time cruising.

When it comes to problems with tunes, there is lots of smoke and mirrors. Every tune has issues with codes and other things. Some do better to keep it off forums than others. For both tunes, the vast majority have no issues, but when one person has an issue and decided to put it on the forum, everybody finds out and it is suddenly assumed that the tune has issues, when in reality, it is normally just a weird combination of car and mods and tune that pushs some parameters outside the normal envelope to cause an issue. Both tunes are very good in that respect these days. As long as you are not the unlucky one who gets the car that causes issues, you will probably never need any support.

As for the BT scanner and some people saying it is absolutely necessary, I completely disagree. I have a BT scanner and I have a Procede. I have not touched the BT scanner in over 6 months, and even then it was only to see how it was doing something so I could make some changes to Procede. Some people go on about the BT, and for some people it is a great tool, but for most people they really just want the capability to clear a code if it comes up, and work out what it is to prevent it happening again. I can understand that some people have a genuine interest in how things work and may appreciate the capability of the BT and spend hours working out how to use it, but most people just want to get rid of a problem, and all they will ever do with the BT is clear codes and read codes, and there are other tools/tunes that can do that. I mean if you have plenty of spare time, it may interest you to view the hundreds of parameters that the BT car read, but does that really add any value? There are only about 10-15 parameters that are useful for monitoring engine performance, and the Procede logs them at much higher rate with much better software analysis tools than the BT.

Zuzu, I am interested in why the BT was an absolute must for you if you have never had an issue with your tune? I am not trying to have a go.... but really a tool like this is only a must if you need to use it for something, and most people do not.

BMWRX, I thought you had decided on the Procede. I was just waiting for your payment to send it to you.

BBK, a telephone call on the same time zone is not quite the same as one in a vastly different timezone. I am pretty sure I can offer support to people in Australia better than anyone from BMS can. Sure I can see that BMS has given most people the support that they need, but should something happen requiring urgent support, I am sure as a local, I can do a better job of support in Brisbane than BMS can.

Anyway, just my $0.02 on things.

Adrian

[Zuzu]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

Zuzu, I am interested in why the BT was an absolute must for you if you have never had an issue with your tune? I am not trying to have a go.... but really a tool like this is only a must if you need to use it for something, and most people do not.

Adrian, I probably havent worded the post correctly.. What I meant was that the BT tool is a must for clearing codes if any do crop up, NOT a must purchase with the JB3..

I have had no probs at all with the JB3 like I said in the past 18 months and 15K Kms since it was installed.. BUT I have had some codes thrown on Map7 which I have cleared..( Considering my car has been returned to the dealer for ten warranty claims to date plus oil service )

Also Adrian, I am a gadget head aswel, and as a automotive engineer by trade, so I am one of those minority who does spend hours in my garage playing with all the functions and settings of the BT tool.

[adrian@vishnu]

Originally Posted by Zuzu

Adrian, I probably havent worded the post correctly.. What I meant was that the BT tool is a must for clearing codes if any do crop up, NOT a must purchase with the JB3..

I have had no probs at all with the JB3 like I said in the past 18 months and 15K Kms since it was installed.. BUT I have had some codes thrown on Map7 which I have cleared..( Considering my car has been returned to the dealer for ten warranty claims to date plus oil service )

Also Adrian, I am a gadget head aswel, and as a automotive engineer by trade, so I am one of those minority who does spend hours in my garage playing with all the functions and settings of the BT tool.

I thought that may be the case mate, and I totally understand where you are coming from... If I was not in the industry, and had more time I would do the same with the BT, as I am a bit of a geek. But I really just wanted to clarify that point that for most people who just want their car to go alot better than standard but not push the envelope past the more basic levels of boost, a BT is not a must, and really you should never really get any codes. For those who want to push it a bit harder... with a JB3, a BT becomes a must if you don't want the dealer to see those codes (and they happen with the JB3 as Zuzu has reported despite what other people on forums will try to tell you), and with the Procede you can achieve the same with the inbuilt CAN features.

So with the JB3, it does not need the BT, but it is well advised if going above the most basic maps. With the Procede, you never need a BT (although some may like it), and the tune can do the required BT functions as well as taking advantage of the CAN data to provide more flexibility to the tuning. I can tell you that we are heavily reliant on the CAN data in V4 and could not have done the new stuff we do without it. The advantages for us are boost control and resulting throttle response, but not everyone values this for the extra cost the same way.

Adrian