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      04-14-2008, 06:45 PM   #45
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F1 cars have 3.0 liter. No need to go bigger than that.
F1 engines only need to last 3 races. Not good for a street car...
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      04-14-2008, 06:56 PM   #46
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Call me crazy but I dont want to see a 4cylinder OR a turbo in an //M1. High-reving Inline 6 ALL the way!
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      04-14-2008, 07:01 PM   #47
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alright..

M1 -> high revving I6 E82TT6 heard about
12X tii -> real light TT4

we both win - capiche?? haha
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      04-14-2008, 07:18 PM   #48
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A fully massaged N52 punched out to 3199cc, hi-comp, ITB's, etc, would be a guess, but this would still likely be outclassed in all aspects anyone cares about by an N54 with a basic tune.

That's why the whole car doesnt make too much sense. The M-V8 in M3, now that's a jump from the N54 in the eyes of most enthusiasts. Any other NA motor would be kind of "meh" by comparison.
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      04-15-2008, 02:17 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aesthetect View Post
alright..

M1 -> high revving I6 E82TT6 heard about
12X tii -> real light TT4

we both win - capiche?? haha
That works!
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      04-15-2008, 05:00 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon26pdx View Post
A fully massaged N52 punched out to 3199cc, hi-comp, ITB's, etc, would be a guess, but this would still likely be outclassed in all aspects anyone cares about by an N54 with a basic tune.

That's why the whole car doesnt make too much sense. The M-V8 in M3, now that's a jump from the N54 in the eyes of most enthusiasts. Any other NA motor would be kind of "meh" by comparison.
in the beginning... the 135i was referred to as a limited production vehicle. it produces great power effortlessly. it is a great (the ultimate?) cruiser, it is turbo, it is not (classic) ///M. it's suspension settings provide great daily driver/driver-focused GT car feel. it is not soft, but it is not raw. it has a rightful place and demands respect. but you are right, a fully worked N52 (or what have you along those lines) could not tromp the N54 (especially with a chip). that is why it only makes sense that the full-blown M-E82 1series replace the 135i, and do so in true ///M fashion - raw. the E30s were not smooth, suave, tactful young professionals, with lady-killer looks and ipod nanos. BMW likes to think of them as little loud bastards with ripped jeans, a high revving engine that surges upon you - and not gracefully, a lsd, suspension that you have to cope with in sacrifice of body roll. honestly i picture the E36 M3 character on a E82 chassis with an updated, but similar, engine. i would suggest they will develop it and sell for the last year or two of the E82 platform and carry over most of the bits onto the next and market that (slightly revamped) M alongside a tii and some other more run-of-the-mill model.

or theyll make an M-E82 with a tuned N54 and some performance pack crap and just save all the goods for 2011 in the supposed F20.

i dont really care. i just want that tii, damnit.
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      04-15-2008, 10:48 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by aesthetect View Post
i didnt notice you had posted here either, did you hear anything relating that to the 1er or any other chassis in particular?
Nope.

Based on the way BMW is going, DI is a safe bet, but I have no idea what they might have up their sleeves other than that. They build and test all the ///M engines there, so it's possible it's the next gen high-performance I6 for the 1'er/Z, or possibly an N54 replacement. Hell, it could even be an N52 replacement with DI!

As for an M version, I'd like to see a 3.4L I6 with DI and high compression developing 442hp at 9000, with a 9250 rpm redline/fuel cut. Though realistically, I think 380-405 would be more realistic. I don't think they want to put more power than the M3 in a Z or 1.

If they go the turbo route, and build a tii for the rumored facelift/new 3 in 2010, I'll take a regular 135/335 at 380/380 (suck on that mercedes, audi, and 'class leading' G37 :biggrin, and a tii at 440/440, to pre-empt mercedes AMG version of their new "entry level" C coupe. I wouldn't be suprised to see an upgraded N54 with cylinder sleeves, forged internals, and some reinforcements to the block, along with better cooling.

At the same time they'll raise the HP of the TTV8 to 450/450, thanks to some more "top end breathing" with a slightly bigger hotside, fee flowing exhaust, and a more accurate HP rating, now that it doesn't have M3 toes to step on.

So, my predictions for the facelift 1/new 3:
330i: 270/230 $34,000
335i (335 tii?): 380/380 $41,000
M3: TTV8 based on the TTV10 being developed for the "supercar" and next gen 5/6 rumored to be in the mid 600s. Figure 510-520 from the M3 $68k starting $80k optioned

123d: True entry level, stupid fuel economy, 200hp/1bagillionfootpoundsat1500-2700 $25,000 with cloth seats
130i: 270/230 $32,000
135i (135tii?): 380/380 $39,000
134 ///M Coupe: 3.4l I6 NA, revs very, very high. 442hp for specific output reccord among "production car". 290ft lbs? One can dream ($45,500)

OR

330 33k
335: 380/380 40k
335tii: 440/440, or 440/425 if they want to be cool 48k
M3: 516 70k+

123 25k
130 31k
135: 380/380 37k
135tii: 440/400 46k
No M car for yoooz.

After slow Z4 sales, they'll move it slightly downmarket for the higher end versions, leave the hairdresser versions too expensive for what you get. Who knows what they'll call it? Z4? Z2?

Z2
Z2 23d: $32,000
Z2 30i: $36,500
Z2 35i: $40,500
Z2 M/Tii: $50,000


There ya go, that's my strategy for the bottom of BMW's line
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      04-15-2008, 08:16 PM   #52
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BUMP for my dreams...
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      04-15-2008, 08:17 PM   #53
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These M1 threads are never going away are they.:iono:
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      04-15-2008, 08:25 PM   #54
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I'm in a meeting with Larry Koch tomorrow for the 1st Qtr chapter meeting, and will hit him up. :smile:
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      04-15-2008, 08:49 PM   #55
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seriously larryn? i didnt know you were professionally associated with BMW

Quote:
Originally Posted by slickone View Post
These M1 threads are never going away are they.:iono:
nope.
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      04-15-2008, 08:55 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickone View Post
These M1 threads are never going away are they.:iono:
As long as I'm on here. NEVER.
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      04-15-2008, 08:58 PM   #57
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hahahahaHA
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      04-15-2008, 09:02 PM   #58
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Why so serious? M division have many intentions but the output war just for marketability is over , it is not defeat for BMW or surrender. Just the priorities have changed.

As I have mentioned before M-Division will become the pinacle for BMW's "Efficient Dynamics" programme. Lower emissions are what is capable with turbo charging . As I said a few years ago on the annoucement of BMW turbo-charged future. "Turbo charging would be on BMW's terms" And the fear alluded when the 335i appeared in 2006. The disapprovers of BMW using Turbo charged engines were converted. The M-Division have some interesting strategies currently undergoing that in prototype form do use twin and quad-turbos.

First of all you will see the progressed model of the 1er Coupe and Cabrio it wont be known as the M1 but possibly M135i it will use a boosted output of the current 135i to 355 PS.

Why M135i? There was no original M6 the E63 is the first M6 the latter was simply the M635 , that is why it makes more sense to follow this tradition. Also to be available will be a CS package (Coupe only) that will involve the addition of lightweight body panels such as Carbon Fibre reinforced roof and additional performance enhancing equipment .

An M120i or tii (tii is still undergoing discussion) will be the groundbreaking first entry performance car for BMW developed fully using "Efficient Dynamics" knowhow. It is BMW's response to have an eco friendly model that will not sacrifice performance, style and agility in the case for low emissions.

This 1er Coupe will be the entry model again using a four cylinder turbo charged powerplant of 240PS again with option of the CS package. BMW tried and tested the current Z4M engine but found it to be too heavy , a prototype of the current engine except for certain materials substitued for aluminium and magnesium did not give the expected result.

So the development commenced on the current engine. BMW management @ BMW's private testing ground have already had their drive in two prototypes with the 120i in Alpine White with the performance package and m-stripes for added visual value. And a 135i in Black with M-stripes using a very different front spoiler similar in shape to the M3.

BMW engineers have also constructed full 1er Coupe body shells utilising carbonfibre body parts as certain factions are interested in following the small BMW tradition - 2002 , E30 M3 and perhaps use the 1er Coupe on the track and eventually it's ideas on the road?.

Whereas the 3er will share the 6 cylinder Turbo model with a seperate performance model just sitting underneath the M3.
The only car to use the four cylinder @ first will be the 1er Coupe.
It is possible the X1 Sport Activity Vehicle will use the engine but as of now it is possibly earmarked for the currently being green-lighted small BMW roadster to be called Z2 under BMW's Verkauf neue produkt argumentation.
X1 and Z2 Roadster will be the first "niche" models from the new 1er product line.

Think how compact the Z3 was compared to the Z4 and then you get the idea to how things are progressing . Z4 will be the first BMW Roadster with "Efficient Dynamics" And the Z2 using such developments such as aluminium front sections and magnesium door and bonnet skins and thermoplastc bootlid and an easily folding soft top instead of a folding complex heavy steel hardtop will ensure the baby roadster will deliver on agility and classleading dynamics.

Especially with the Z4 progressing a few notches up the scale leaving room for this car just as the 3er Coupe left room for the 1er Coupe.

As of now the 135i is doing well it wont be disturbed or unleashed of it's potential until late 2009,early 2010.

It is best to move the benchmarks before being taken off the road altogether.
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      04-15-2008, 09:05 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aesthetect View Post
seriously larryn? i didnt know you were professionally associated with BMW


nope.
He's a guest speaker at a ~30 person meeting at Foreign Motors West.

He's been to our chapter meetings a few times now...
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      04-15-2008, 09:20 PM   #60
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^nice.

thank you very much as usual, scott. still no diesel technology heading for US shores? the sales advisor today stated (although i assumed incorrectly) the 335d would be coming over around the time of the X6.

also, so dont expect any 4 cylinder M120/tii until the next iteration of the 1 series platform ~2011? F20 I believe?

or are you again only able to speculate for the European domestic market?
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      04-15-2008, 09:32 PM   #61
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Very good info Scott! I would kill for CF roof on this car. Less weight is always a good thing, as is more power. Hopefully some slightly larger turbos? :-D

A real LSD would be another thing on my wish list.

If BMW offered an upgraded 135i in '10 or '11 model year with a couple hundred fewer pounds, a CF roof, and an LSD, I'd pay for it without even looking at more power, but more is always nice, especially if it's achieved using higher-flow turbos with a little more headroom.

I'd pay an extra $8k for that, no question.
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      04-15-2008, 09:37 PM   #62
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Late 09?? 2010. This blows. I have so much crap running through my head in regards to this timeline.
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      04-15-2008, 10:12 PM   #63
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^ :iono: sounds like its going to have a turbo anyway :biggrin:
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      04-16-2008, 10:02 AM   #64
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I am liking what I am hearing. Keep spinning me BMW.....
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      04-17-2008, 07:56 AM   #65
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I asked Larry Koch last night about the possibilities of M1/M135/1 series CS/etc., and he said that a lot of things are considered for the entire model line (not just 1's), but nothing is definitive.

Sorry, no scoop here.. move along. :wink:
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      04-17-2008, 08:53 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
I asked Larry Koch last night about the possibilities of M1/M135/1 series CS/etc., and he said that a lot of things are considered for the entire model line (not just 1's), but nothing is definitive.

Sorry, no scoop here.. move along. :wink:
Thanks Larry. I expected that.
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