Old school vs new school

[DCYT]

Hi there, I am thinking of getting a 1M to replace my 93 RX7. I am wondering if there are any past or current FD owners that can chime in with their feedback. Looking for something relating to driving dynamics. I know build quality and workmanship will be better with the 1M.

Will new school be better than old school analog car?

Thanks in advance!

[DCYT]

thread is worthless without pics ... this is my ride.

[burnsniper]

Nice RX7. I do believe that the 1M is the last analogue car and has quite an "old school" feel. The torque/short wheel base combination will likely feel much different than the mile high redline rotary screamer you currently drive!

[DCYT]

I think the wheelbase is actually shorter on the RX7 with only 2425 mm vs. 1M's 2660 mm.

However, 1M has a wider track, so it'll make for a different handling ride.

[1'M Blue]

Love the RX-7 .

[Harlequin]

You won't get a better "old School" feel in any other modern BMW...

[IEDEI]

as others are saying....this is definitely most 'old school' sports car around coming from BMW or any other german car maker in the last 10+ years.....feels direct, alive, and pretty damn purposeful in almost any setting. The RX7 was a great car.....but this is something a bit different. It's practical, yet crazy!

[DCYT]

I should go test drive and see now!

[Artemis]

RX7 and 1M: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=574490

[bueller]

My cousin and I do road trips in the fall and spring. I have a 1M and he has a 93 RX7. I love driving my 1M, however I thought I would share with you a couple of my thoughts and observations.

First, I love my 1M, I enjoy it every time I drive it.

I do have some fears about long term ownership of my 1M. The main thing I fear are things going wrong with the car like high pressure fuel pump, or the iDrive, while cool, I wish I had ordered the car without it.

Don't know how handy you are, but with the RX7 you know what the issues are and the solutions are well documented. The thing with the 1M, BMW likes to make it difficult for people to wrench on their own vehicles. There are a lot of electronic systems and the car is more complicated than the RX7, so I think if anything a 1M is going to be more expensive to maintain than a well sorted RX7.

While the 1M is a unicorn, and true analog icons are really gaining value momentum, things like 993 Porsches, E20 M3s, and even E46 M3s with the right options are increasing in value, I would imagine that garage queen 1Ms will hold or increase in value, but daily drivers, or cars with cosmetic issues can be had at a discount. Your RX7 looks fantastic, and I get the impression they are appreciating.

The 1M compared with the RX7 is a heavy car, and the 1M handles fantastically well, and is fun to drive. The RX7 is almost 1,000 lbs lighter. I would argue that the RX7 has more rewarding handling, and while it can't keep up to the 1M in the straights, in the corners the weight difference really makes a huge difference. The 1M relies on electronics to keep things sorted out. I have turned off the electronics completely a few times, and while it is a very well balanced car, most of my driving is done on unfamiliar roads, I leave it in the M dynamic mode most of the time. There are three settings (1) On, (2) M Dynamic, and (3) Off. I would like another setting between 2 and 3.

I don't think that you will be disappointed with either car, and while the 1M is obviously a newer car, should you get a 1M you will love it, but I think you will miss your RX7 equally as much as you will love your 1M.

Variety is the spice of life! Be a loving owner to both!

P.S. Our cars are never that filthy, however we were having too much fun driving to take a detail break, which is the reason I avoid riding with Ducati owners.

[bueller]

Oh, just another thing, and I do not care about this at all, but when driving around with my cousin, all eyes go to the RX7. The only people that take a second look at the 1M are car people, which is not necesarily a bad thing.

[DCYT]

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated!
I am still on the edge with the 1M.

You are right about garage queen vs. DD.

Saw a CPO VO 1M at BMW Toronto and it's a DD with 67k km on it. They are asking $55k; I think they'll let it go for $52k.

Also saw the BSM 1M with 27k km at Budd's in Oakville, they are asking $59k.

[bueller]

I just passed 20k on mine...

I would much rather buy privately as you get an idea of how the car was maintained by meeting the owner. Dealers blow goats!

I saw the 1M at BMW Toronto last week when I was there for some motorcycle parts, I wish I had taken a closer look.

Unless you are looking to find a perfect car with low KMs, wait a couple of years and pick up something with easy to address cosmetic issues for a good price.

It is not like you are driving a Cavalier...

It is tough with cars -- it is like you get on this track where you feel like you are on a mission, I think the key to success is do your best to keep your emotions in check. It is hard, and I am glad I have a small garage or I would have an empty bank account!

[CP 1///M]

Base model cars with roughly 20-25K km is around $60K out west. I had to snag my fully loaded car out from Moncton with a premium but lower mileage. PM me if you have questions

RX7 suffers from periodic rebuild and that's a big reason for me to not bother as my only car - I don't wrench on my own car (nor would I have a place to wrench on a car anymore) but its legendary handling has its draws. I wouldn't be so sure about the overall TCO for an FD vs 1M but definitely understand the concerns about wrenching on a 1M yourself (you would need quite a bit more electronic tools in addition). Depends on how seriously you intend to mod it after ownership but modding a German car goes to a different price level. The other "totally unrelated" vehicle I contemplated was an Evora S (which will cost anywhere between $10-20K more than a 1M) just because one was listed in CraigsList while I was looking - quite a bit more impractical for supreme handling and power/weight, just watch out for the clutch job

[CP 1///M]

Originally Posted by bueller

I do have some fears about long term ownership of my 1M. The main thing I fear are things going wrong with the car like high pressure fuel pump, or the iDrive, while cool, I wish I had ordered the car without it.

HPFP is in the back of my mind, but it has been a while now with BMW acknowledging the problem and fixing it. iDrive, on the other hand, is a sweet little amenity that I just couldn't live without, esp when it's my only car even if I don't daily drive it (went all the way out east to get a car with iDrive AND PDC)

Originally Posted by bueller

Don't know how handy you are, but with the RX7 you know what the issues are and the solutions are well documented. The thing with the 1M, BMW likes to make it difficult for people to wrench on their own vehicles. There are a lot of electronic systems and the car is more complicated than the RX7, so I think if anything a 1M is going to be more expensive to maintain than a well sorted RX7.

The newest RX7 in North America is close to 20 yr old, and while you're correct that most issues are well documented, the apex seals just don't last with boost to the motor - out here, we have 1 shop that specializes in rotary (and the resulting customer line up to get them to look at your car) and if you don't do the rebuild yourself, the TCO just goes through the roof (not to mention the downtime). As for the 1M, that's what this forum is for (and in general, how Internet helps improve our lives) - collective knowledge helps, and I intend to drive 10+ years on the 1M

Originally Posted by bueller

While the 1M is a unicorn, and true analog icons are really gaining value momentum, things like 993 Porsches, E20 M3s, and even E46 M3s with the right options are increasing in value, I would imagine that garage queen 1Ms will hold or increase in value, but daily drivers, or cars with cosmetic issues can be had at a discount. Your RX7 looks fantastic, and I get the impression they are appreciating.

I would imagine the TCO for all those vehicles you mentioned be no better than the FD or the 1M, either due to age and/or complexity. E30s are super rare (let alone in good shape), and good E46 M3 with manual is getting harder to find (high strung NA motor is bound to be more stressed to make the power that it does). I don't know much about Porsches but it never strikes me as an inexpensive to own and maintain kind of brand. As for the FD, it's definitely on the rise but only slowly due to the apex seals and small market of interest

Originally Posted by bueller

The 1M compared with the RX7 is a heavy car, and the 1M handles fantastically well, and is fun to drive. The RX7 is almost 1,000 lbs lighter. I would argue that the RX7 has more rewarding handling, and while it can't keep up to the 1M in the straights, in the corners the weight difference really makes a huge difference. The 1M relies on electronics to keep things sorted out. I have turned off the electronics completely a few times, and while it is a very well balanced car, most of my driving is done on unfamiliar roads, I leave it in the M dynamic mode most of the time. There are three settings (1) On, (2) M Dynamic, and (3) Off. I would like another setting between 2 and 3.

Coming from a turbo AWD that revs high to make power (and still throttle-by-cable but don't quite handle as well as FR cars), I still need to get comfortable with throttle-by-wire and some wide open area to test out MDM. My description for the 1M is "short, fat, and wide" which is terrible for men but work wonders for a car

[mike@x-ph.com]

I think this is the best car to be transitioning to.

[DCYT]

Originally Posted by CP 1///M

Coming from a turbo AWD that revs high to make power (and still throttle-by-cable but don't quite handle as well as FR cars), I still need to get comfortable with throttle-by-wire and some wide open area to test out MDM. My description for the 1M is "short, fat, and wide" which is terrible for men but work wonders for a car

Turbo AWD eh ...... I have a Mazdaspeed 6 as my my DD.
Trying see if consolidating MS6 and RX7 to one 1M is worth it.

[CP 1///M]

Well mine was a 2.5RS coupe with STi swap + 6MT. The 1M will sit four but definitely not as comfortable as your MS6 - in fact, I would argue that my 2.5RS feels roomier in the back than the 1M but the 1M feels more luxurious

[suspenceful]

I built and boosted a Miata, then sold it for my current '08 135i.





The Miata was a much more barebones car. It broke so many necks, whereas my BMW never gets a second glance from anyone except for other enthusiasts. I don't mind it because cops hated my Miata.

While the two cars have a 12 year difference, the 1-series maintains the nimbleness of the Miata that I liked. It is bigger and doesn't handle as well, but feels MUCH better than an E9X 3-series. You'll have to make sacrifices/compromises somewhere but I couldn't be happier with my upgrade. The 1-series is the only modern BMW that retains the feel of a driver's car, in my opinion. Every time I get in it, I have a smile on my face.

The 1-series has been more reliable, more comfortable, and much more practical. Plus, it's faster! I went FBO (430whp/475wtq) within the first month or two and know I would walk away from my old Miata (240whp/215wtq). These cars love mods!

[bueller]

All the way back in 2000 I was driving an 05 993 which I regret selling whenever I think about it. I was living in Toronto, and I had a sweet suspension setup that was not the best for Toronto streets. A friend of mine had an 83 Toyota Carolla that he had nowhere to park.

I parked the 993 in a friends garage and drove the Carolla on week days. The best thing was, it was a $50 car. So, go to Yorkdale (for those not from Toronto, it is a very busy plaza with not enough parking) and find a spot between 2 mommies wagons, who cares, I would cram in in the space!

I am not saying to get a $50 car, my cousin's daily driver is a 2009 Jetta TDI, it is a nice comfortable car that is cheap to insure and operate. He works on and drives the RX7 when he has time, and gets where he has to go reliably in the Jetta.

I traded my 2012 TDI Golf in on a Touareg, and there are times when I really miss the Golf, it was a great little car, just as much fun as the GTI once you got going, not super fast off the line. That, and I also got 800k to a tank.

I can say that having dealt with Endras & BMW Toronto, I have been underwhelmed at their attention to detail. I love my 1M and would love to keep it forever, the one thing I stumble over is the prospect of relying on the BMW dealer network for my 1Ms continued well being.

The points that you made above are all valid, and if you feel that passionate about the 1M you will not be disappointed, go for it, just wanted to throw that out there.

[CarJunkie]

Beautiful FD!

My last car before the 1M was an FE (aka RX-8, admittedly NOT the same as a FD) and I missed it for about 6 months. The RX-8 has less power and more weight than your FD, and yet is still a very light car by today's standards and has a very good chassis. I test drove an E90 M3 and was immediately turned off by its sheer mass. The dealer had a 1M allocation that hadn't been used and I took a chance based on the purely positive reviews.

I had driven my completely stock RX-8 for 5 years including long road trips, autocross, track days and as a year round daily driver in Maine of all places. The car felt like one of my shoes . . . it just fit me. I knew exactly what it would do in response to any input, including input from crappy Maine roads which pitch and roll in the worst possible places.

It took me half a year to feel about 90% as comfortable in my 1M, partly because of the torque. The 1M can get you in a lot of trouble in very little time. It needs a little more caution. My right foot had to learn to be more light, especially in corners. The turn-in is slightly less immediate, but the car rotates really well. It is much harder to catch and correct if it steps out. I suspect those handling differences would be more noticeable coming from the FD. If you want more torque, its a no brainer. If you prefer having the best possible handling . . . tough choice. Without suspension mods, the 1M would be a step down.

[DCYT]

Hi CarJunkie, thanks for the reply. I know exactly what you mean. I had 3 FCs and now a FD for the last 13 yrs.

I am probably going to take bueller's advice and wait out another yr or 2 before jumping in.

A few more cars are starting to come up for sale and prices are starting to decline; cars are also on sale for much longer than 1 yr ago (at least in Toronto).

I suspect I'll dip to mid $40s when the M2 comes out and I'll snatch a CPO 1M.