Some fuel pump photos!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

I got a few photos that you guys might be interested in with all this fuel pump talk. BMS is setting up a fuel pump voltage booster for one of their customers and took a few photos showing the fuel pump location, connectors, and contacts. The main power connector should look familiar to many of you!

Mike

[onefastman]

Nice!

[Timberwolf]

So boosting voltage will pump more fuel but set the pump itself at the edge of it's abilities wont it? Seems like a short term solution.

If it's a good solution, please share the concept in greater detail.

I wish someone would just come out with a pump injector kit...

[adrean8j]

Hey Mike can you explain to us laymen exactly what this is and what it is for? I am confused.

[mke135i]

I'd recommend you visit the 3 series part of the forum. There's a lot of information on the fuel system there done by Shiv and others.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=58

[adrean8j]

No way I am gonna dissect the 100 different posts over @E90...just a quick and dirty to the laymen of what Mike is trying to say will help us 1addicts without running all over the forum....

[Timberwolf]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

No way I am gonna dissect the 100 different posts over @E90...just a quick and dirty to the laymen of what Mike is trying to say will help us 1addicts without running all over the forum....

+1

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

Hey Mike can you explain to us laymen exactly what this is and what it is for? I am confused.

Right now large turbo cars are limited to around 500hp to the wheels with meth injection, due mainly to fuel limitations. So various companies are working on ways to break through that barrier by upgrading the weak links in the fuel system. The low pressure pump has been identified as a weak link. Basically this R&D is for cars producing more than 450hp to the wheels needing more fuel.

Mike

[Aries932]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

No way I am gonna dissect the 100 different posts over @E90...just a quick and dirty to the laymen of what Mike is trying to say will help us 1addicts without running all over the forum....

It is pretty simple...you literally have to read the first post in these two threads...should give you an extremely good idea about what you are asking for.

Vishnu Fuel System Research PART 1
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ystem+research

Vishnu Fuel System Research PART 2
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ystem+research

[TheDeathDealer]

This seems like a bad bandaid fix. If you went that far to get to the pump, why not actually just replace it with a better one or add a inline pump?

Many people run kb boostapumps on supercharged GTOs, and even magna charger supplies you with one called a magna volt with a blower kit. They are a temporary fix at best. I can't tell you how many people have had their magna volt voltage booster burn out after not long periods of time. Depending on how it's setup the pump will just not turn on until you bypass the burned out regulator (car dies while driving/at idle). Some people had their pressures drop and (luckily they had fp gauge and watch it) almost toasted their motor because they were WOT when this happened.


Are you able to add a inline pump or change the stocker in the tank? Might as well pull the one out of the tank and see what it is so maybe it can be swapped with a common aftermarket one while you are right there... Only takes a second to pop it out.



Interested to see the results on the cars though

[TheDeathDealer]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Right now large turbo cars are limited to around 500hp to the wheels with meth injection, due mainly to fuel limitations. So various companies are working on ways to break through that barrier by upgrading the weak links in the fuel system. The low pressure pump has been identified as a weak link. Basically this R&D is for cars producing more than 450hp to the wheels needing more fuel.

Mike

Do you guys really think boosting the voltage another 1-2v will add enough fuel for the car? (serious question). That would be cool if it works. Honestly this is something I'd put on a car that is making less than 500whp just to have a little more insurance running pump gas, or to have the ability to run e85. For people looking to break 500whp pushing the weak link harder isnt a good idea I'd think.... Don't you guys think you could add a magna fuel inline pump into the system? That seems like it would be a much better and safer (although a lot more $$) solution for those guys really pushing the limits.....

But hey what do I know. I'm here to learn like everyone else.

[oman135]

interesting !

thanks..

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by TheDeathDealer

Do you guys really think boosting the voltage another 1-2v will add enough fuel for the car? (serious question). That would be cool if it works. Honestly this is something I'd put on a car that is making less than 500whp just to have a little more insurance running pump gas, or to have the ability to run e85. For people looking to break 500whp pushing the weak link harder isnt a good idea I'd think.... Don't you guys think you could add a magna fuel inline pump into the system? That seems like it would be a much better and safer (although a lot more $$) solution for those guys really pushing the limits.....

But hey what do I know. I'm here to learn like everyone else.

I don't think it would matter IF you doubled the transfer fuel pump's voltage... the HPFP will only put out so much "set" high pressure AND flow so much fuel. It does not matter how much fuel your transfer pump can "push" foward and out of teh tank... the HPFP up front will ultimately determine HOW much fuel flows and HOW much fuel pressure there is for the engine to use.


Dackel

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I don't think it would matter IF you doubled the transfer fuel pump's voltage... the HPFP will only put out so much "set" high pressure AND flow so much fuel. It does not matter how much fuel your transfer pump can "push" foward and out of teh tank... the HPFP up front will ultimately determine HOW much fuel flows and HOW much fuel pressure there is for the engine to use.


Dackel

I gather from what Mike said above that this is just part of the R&D process to address fueling issues?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

I gather from what Mike said above that this is just part of the R&D process to address fueling issues?

Yep, all just early R&D. If more low pressure pump voltage improves overall fueling capacity then the question becomes is it better, easier to install, more cost effective, etc than a replacement pump. Too early to say right now.

Mike

[Jettafanatic]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Yep, all just early R&D. If more low pressure pump voltage improves overall fueling capacity then the question becomes is it better, easier to install, more cost effective, etc than a replacement pump. Too early to say right now.

Mike

Agree... if you read the posts on E90, ultimately the issue with HPFP failures may be that the LPFP may not be able to keep up the fuel flow needed by the HPFP esp when the car is tuned higher than stock. if you guys look at the charts a small voltage boost results in quite a higher flow...
Long term effect on the LPFP I guess will be a question mark...
A for effort!

[escobar929]

people have been doing this in multiple turbo platforms for a while, its just a bandaid fix really. Usually done by people who were too cheap to buy a better pump

In our case, not sure if there are aftermarket LPFP available, so this might for till there is

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Here is the voltage / PWM output using a KB boost a pump. It's interesting that the controller happily passes through it's input voltage. Which means you could in theory just boost the voltage and let the OEM controller logic handle the duty cycle to ensure you never over worked the pump.

Mike

[TheDeathDealer]

Originally Posted by escobar929

people have been doing this in multiple turbo platforms for a while, its just a bandaid fix really. Usually done by people who were too cheap to buy a better pump

In our case, not sure if there are aftermarket LPFP available, so this might for till there is

The high pressure pump will be the real deal with these cars. The KB boost a pump might help a tiny bit, more than anything it's just some extra insurance once you are at the end of the line with the hpfp, so the loco can keep up with it a little easier.

I'm sure sooner or later someone will develop a better hpfp that will come with a aftermarket lpfp to work together and support a large a punt of power..

[Turbolader]

Just curious, has anybody looked at what the actual stock voltage is (@ WOT) going to the low pressure pump?

I ask this because I run a stage 3 srt-4 as my weekend toy, and it too suffers from the samee type of problems that it sounds like people are running into here. for the srt-4, the feed wire is 18-awg (not kidding) so you loose as much as 1-2v by the time the power gets from the FP relay in the front, to the in-tank pump at the rear. Guys with scan gauges switched the feed wire to 12-awg and saw a considerable increase in AFR at WOT just by switching the wire.

I personally run 10-awg from a separate relay to a high-volume walbro 255 pump.

Anyways thought I'd add the suggestion about checking the voltage of the feed wire.

[MZWIE]

In BMW parlance they call that the fuel delivery unit since technically there are two fuel pumps in our cars.